In the first one I actually had to do a little cloning because James' camera was in the bottom of the frame. I guess I didn't notice it when I was shooting. But this is simply a wider perspective of the one James took.
Also I notice that infamous 'yellow/orange' GoGs color cast was definitely more prominent at certain points during sunrise. It is obvious in the second image.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on December 18, 2007 at 5:01 PM
Derek. They look good.
I'm not sure what the issue is with the yellow color cast. I shoot at the Garden quite often and have never had any trouble with it. Are you forcing daylight for your white balance? If so, this should resolve any issues with a false color cast there, or at least it always has done so for me.
I'm wondering if you were using a polarizer. If so, you might want to remove it on some of these shots as the top center of the sky (90 degrees from sunrise) is pretty dark.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on December 18, 2007 at 6:12 PM
Thanks Mel. I think I might actually try shooting there without a polarizer for some shots next time. Although I do think the polarizer helps to cut down on some of the bright reflection coming off of the snow.
The 'yellow/orange' cast I referred to in the second shot is something I normally notice in the Garden during certain times of the morning. But part of this is a 'real' color reflection from the red rocks onto the snow. It only occurs when the sun is at a certain angle to the rocks and snow. I could easily remove it in PS by changing the white balance. But then again it does reflect how it looked to me at that time of the morning.
- Derek
Posted by Art Escobado on December 18, 2007 at 6:50 PM
I really like the image for the last link-the first link is nice but i want more at the bottom-but these are all nice images.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on December 18, 2007 at 6:54 PM
Derek,
That is different than what most of us were referring to in previous comments about yellow shift in white balance. We were referring to an overall yellow tint in the image in places where it should not be, such as clouds that should be white or gray and even affecting the blue sky. In other words, we were saying that the color balance of the scene was incorrect and unnatural. I don't see anything in the white balance of #2 that reflects comments I'd made in the past. There is yellow in the clouds caused by the rising sun, but the sky is maintaining a natural blue-cyan color. The snow in shadows is blue in color as would be expected.
I'm not savvy at extracting EXIF data from images, but I'd guess that #2 was processed at 5100-5500K with a tint around +5. This is a normal range for daylight film and should reflect warm colors at sunrise or sunset. So to me, this image looks normal.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on December 18, 2007 at 10:32 PM
Mel,
I appreciate your explanation of the differences. I was starting to think that any shot from the Garden with yellow/orange in it was considered bad. LOL... Unfortunately the has a lot of those colors naturally.
BTW, when are we going to see some Garden shots from that new fancy camera of yours? It looks pretty sweet!
- Derek
Posted by Mel Ladewig on December 18, 2007 at 11:07 PM
Well, I don't have a #00 lensboard for my 65 Super Angulon yet and the shutter for my 150 Symmar for which I do have a lensboard is getting cleaned, so no pics out of the Tachihara just yet. But I do have some recent photos with these lenses. How about a Garden shot from last Sunday. This is with the 65. Since I don't have a scanner yet, I shot the transparency on my light table with my XT. I left it in the sleeve to keep it from collecting dust since I'm not ready to scan just yet. And no, my light table is not calibrated.
Posted by Todd Caudle on December 18, 2007 at 11:43 PM
God I love the Garden w/fresh snow! All these are great, and I'm really liking your LF shot, Mel.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on December 19, 2007 at 12:49 AM
Mel, great shot! I was wanting to get over to Rattlesnake Ridge for some snow shots. It looks like you hit it at a good time with *plenty* of snow. Amazing shot from your light table.
Hey Todd, come on down! And bring some of that rime ice with you.
With the roll you have been on lately maybe we better just ask you where to go after the next storm. I think you have the shot of the winter already!
Posted by Mel Ladewig on December 19, 2007 at 11:06 AM
Thanks Todd and Derek.
I miss spoke originally. This is from the same Sunday as Todd's "Epic Day" post, so I think that would be two Sundays ago. I'm just waiting for a repeat of last winter's Christmas blizzards to show you how its really done.
Mel-
Posted by Derek Sedillo on December 19, 2007 at 11:38 AM
Cool,
Hopefully the Tachihara will be ready in time for the next big Dump!
I look forward to seeing what it will produce in the Garden under prime winter conditions.
- Derek
Posted by James H Egbert on December 19, 2007 at 2:17 PM
I do need to pipe in and say that the Yellowish tint you see in the snow was there and verified in and out of the viewfinder. By slightly over exposing the image you can loose it however the contrasts get heavy as does the saturation of all the other colors, mainly the orange rocks.
I also had to do a little tweaking on my images to loose the yellow hues without effecting other colors. I agree however that the yellowing should not have happened in the clouds which actually had pinks and white tones.
Posted by Guy Schmickle on December 19, 2007 at 2:29 PM
You know what they say about yellow snow....
Seriously Derek, those are some very nice shots of a very cool place. Given the time of day you took them, I'd expect a golden tint to the snow.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on December 19, 2007 at 2:49 PM
As long as I don't have to go far from the car, the old Calumet rail is fine. But from the North Garden parking lot to Rattlesnake Ridge is about as far as I'm willing to haul the beast. The box for that camera is about 24"X12"X18" and probably weighs a good 12 pounds with camera, film holders and lenses inside.
The camera itself doesn't make any difference in the image captured assuming there are no light leaks or other problems (and ignoring differences in available movements). The big advantage with that Tachihara is that it is very light and compact when folded so I can carry it with me in more situations.
I'm waiting anxiously to get my shutter back for more than one reason. I prefer the angle of view of the 150 over the extremely wide 65. If I had any money left for photography gear right now, I'd probably have ordered a 135 and 180 already just so that I'd have something to play with on the new camera.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on December 19, 2007 at 3:12 PM
Mel,
You really *earned* that shot lugging the big Calmut up onto RR.
It is amazing how wide a 65 is on a LF camera. I do think that the composition is pleasing however in the image you took. Usually in that classic Garden shot with 'The Tree' and PP in the background you never see the entire tree. So your shot looks more unique especially with the snow!
Discussion
14 replieshttp://www.landandseaphoto.smugmug.com/photos/232743757-XL.jpg
http://www.landandseaphoto.smugmug.com/photos/232743000-XL.jpg
http://www.landandseaphoto.smugmug.com/photos/232744414-XL.jpg
In the first one I actually had to do a little cloning because James' camera was in the bottom of the frame. I guess I didn't notice it when I was shooting. But this is simply a wider perspective of the one James took.
Also I notice that infamous 'yellow/orange' GoGs color cast was definitely more prominent at certain points during sunrise. It is obvious in the second image.
I'm not sure what the issue is with the yellow color cast. I shoot at the Garden quite often and have never had any trouble with it. Are you forcing daylight for your white balance? If so, this should resolve any issues with a false color cast there, or at least it always has done so for me.
I'm wondering if you were using a polarizer. If so, you might want to remove it on some of these shots as the top center of the sky (90 degrees from sunrise) is pretty dark.
The 'yellow/orange' cast I referred to in the second shot is something I normally notice in the Garden during certain times of the morning. But part of this is a 'real' color reflection from the red rocks onto the snow. It only occurs when the sun is at a certain angle to the rocks and snow. I could easily remove it in PS by changing the white balance. But then again it does reflect how it looked to me at that time of the morning.
- Derek
That is different than what most of us were referring to in previous comments about yellow shift in white balance. We were referring to an overall yellow tint in the image in places where it should not be, such as clouds that should be white or gray and even affecting the blue sky. In other words, we were saying that the color balance of the scene was incorrect and unnatural. I don't see anything in the white balance of #2 that reflects comments I'd made in the past. There is yellow in the clouds caused by the rising sun, but the sky is maintaining a natural blue-cyan color. The snow in shadows is blue in color as would be expected.
I'm not savvy at extracting EXIF data from images, but I'd guess that #2 was processed at 5100-5500K with a tint around +5. This is a normal range for daylight film and should reflect warm colors at sunrise or sunset. So to me, this image looks normal.
I appreciate your explanation of the differences. I was starting to think that any shot from the Garden with yellow/orange in it was considered bad. LOL... Unfortunately the has a lot of those colors naturally.
BTW, when are we going to see some Garden shots from that new fancy camera of yours? It looks pretty sweet!
- Derek
Hey Todd, come on down! And bring some of that rime ice with you.
With the roll you have been on lately maybe we better just ask you where to go after the next storm.
I miss spoke originally. This is from the same Sunday as Todd's "Epic Day" post, so I think that would be two Sundays ago. I'm just waiting for a repeat of last winter's Christmas blizzards to show you how its really done.
Mel-
Hopefully the Tachihara will be ready in time for the next big Dump!
I look forward to seeing what it will produce in the Garden under prime winter conditions.
- Derek
I also had to do a little tweaking on my images to loose the yellow hues without effecting other colors. I agree however that the yellowing should not have happened in the clouds which actually had pinks and white tones.
Seriously Derek, those are some very nice shots of a very cool place. Given the time of day you took them, I'd expect a golden tint to the snow.
The camera itself doesn't make any difference in the image captured assuming there are no light leaks or other problems (and ignoring differences in available movements). The big advantage with that Tachihara is that it is very light and compact when folded so I can carry it with me in more situations.
I'm waiting anxiously to get my shutter back for more than one reason. I prefer the angle of view of the 150 over the extremely wide 65. If I had any money left for photography gear right now, I'd probably have ordered a 135 and 180 already just so that I'd have something to play with on the new camera.
You really *earned* that shot lugging the big Calmut up onto RR.
It is amazing how wide a 65 is on a LF camera. I do think that the composition is pleasing however in the image you took. Usually in that classic Garden shot with 'The Tree' and PP in the background you never see the entire tree. So your shot looks more unique especially with the snow!
- Derek