Thanks for the help deciding on a printer; I ended up with the Epson 3800 which I think will fit my needs quite nicely. Now I've got two new questions.
Under what conditions do you evaluate your prints? (with a little scotch?). I'm speaking of lighting conditions here. Do most of you examine them under regular room lighting, or do you use a "proofing table"?
How long until you started being comfortable with your results? This is my first large format printer, and the first time I'm seeing my images off screen in the last 3 years. I need to tighten up my color fidelity and contrast, and appearently my sharpening. (I'm color managed so that, thankfully, is not currently a problem).
Is it pretty typical, in the begining, to print out a few runs of an image until you've gotten to a happy place?
Thanks all and Happy Holidays
Alex
Posted by Les Barstow on December 22, 2007 at 6:30 PM
I usually look at my prints under both fluorescent and incandescent lighting, but nothing special - I need to know what the customer will be seeing once it's on paper.
Some images come out "just right" from the get-go, others I print several copies until I'm happy with the presentation. Monitors still look different from print, no matter how much color management you have. I think you're in a similar position to me; I tend to under-sharpen and slightly under-contrast, and I find some colors - even with color management - need a bit more saturation once they hit the printer.
Happy Holidays to you (and everyone) as well.
Posted by Guy Schmickle on December 22, 2007 at 11:03 PM
I'm rather new to the printing game, but I've now had a couple of months with my HP Z3100. Experimentation is the key to learning so burning multiple prints on an image is sometimes necessary. Good light is definitely needed to properly evaluate prints. I always examine my prints under the brightest incandescent, flourescent and natural lighting I have available. I like to know what it'll look like under these different lighting conditions.
As far as sharpening goes, my rule of thumb is that the sharpness of the image when viewed at 50% in photoshop is pretty close to the sharpness of the final print. Thus a sharp image at 50% view will look rather oversharpened when you view the image at 100%. I hope this makes sense.
Posted by Kalin Wilson on December 23, 2007 at 1:14 PM
When you first start, expect to print an image a few times before getting what you want. As you gain experience with soft proofing and working with a chosen paper, you'll make fewer test prints. I tend to do test prints on 8.5x11 sheets of Epson Premium Luster or Epson Enhanced Matte. These are less expensive, higher end papers along the lines of what I print final copies on.
Softproofing is key, and believing what the soft proof is telling you. Each paper will have different characteristics and getting the dynamic range you see on your monitor transfered to paper is always a challenge, if at all possible. Harman Gloss FB AL and Crane Museo Silver Rag are the best semi-gloss papers I've found and I can usually get a matching print with very minor adjustments for the soft proof. Hahnemule Photo Rag and Innova Fibaprint Ultrasmooth are my matte choices but I still have big challenges getting the prints I want on matte, although I like the matte look and texture.
Guy's tip to judge sharpness at less than 100% is good. You want to judge where sharpening is being applied and how it affects the image at 100%, especially any creative sharpening (I belong to the Fraser 3-stage sharpening crowd), but an image properly sharpened for printing will look very 'crunchy' to funky at 100%. Again this is something you learn to judge and varies based on what kind of monitor (LCD vs CRT) you use and its quality.
Doing your own fine art printing is a whole different realm of your photography. There is almost as much to learn as just being able to take a good picture. John Paul Caponigro has some good tutorials on printing and proofing, I think most are free or available with a free subscription to his newsletter. Also, I highly recommend the Camera to Print video from Luminous Landscape. It ties together many aspects of the digital workflow with a quality print as the goal. The LL forums are a great source of info too, and many here know.
Overall, expect to burn some ink and paper. A majority of my printing over the last year has been experimentation, paper testing, etc. But when it came time to make some prints for a recent display, I was ready and very happy with the results.
Thanks for the tips. Glad to hear at least I'm on the right track. I've got the LL camera to print (which inspired me to finally purchase a printer) and use PK sharpener for input and output sharpening. I guess I'll need to trust it and not be so worried about oversharpening (at least not at first).
Cheers all,
Alex
Posted by Nat Coalson on December 26, 2007 at 6:23 PM
Alex - I highly recommend SoLux bulbs for viewing prints:
Most paper and ink combinations will exhibit varying degrees of metamerism (color shifts under different light) but you will get the most accurate, predictable results working in a controlled environment.
Discussion
5 repliesThanks for the help deciding on a printer; I ended up with the Epson 3800 which I think will fit my needs quite nicely. Now I've got two new questions.
Under what conditions do you evaluate your prints? (with a little scotch?). I'm speaking of lighting conditions here. Do most of you examine them under regular room lighting, or do you use a "proofing table"?
How long until you started being comfortable with your results? This is my first large format printer, and the first time I'm seeing my images off screen in the last 3 years. I need to tighten up my color fidelity and contrast, and appearently my sharpening. (I'm color managed so that, thankfully, is not currently a problem).
Is it pretty typical, in the begining, to print out a few runs of an image until you've gotten to a happy place?
Thanks all and Happy Holidays
Alex
Some images come out "just right" from the get-go, others I print several copies until I'm happy with the presentation. Monitors still look different from print, no matter how much color management you have. I think you're in a similar position to me; I tend to under-sharpen and slightly under-contrast, and I find some colors - even with color management - need a bit more saturation once they hit the printer.
Happy Holidays to you (and everyone) as well.
As far as sharpening goes, my rule of thumb is that the sharpness of the image when viewed at 50% in photoshop is pretty close to the sharpness of the final print. Thus a sharp image at 50% view will look rather oversharpened when you view the image at 100%. I hope this makes sense.
Softproofing is key, and believing what the soft proof is telling you. Each paper will have different characteristics and getting the dynamic range you see on your monitor transfered to paper is always a challenge, if at all possible. Harman Gloss FB AL and Crane Museo Silver Rag are the best semi-gloss papers I've found and I can usually get a matching print with very minor adjustments for the soft proof. Hahnemule Photo Rag and Innova Fibaprint Ultrasmooth are my matte choices but I still have big challenges getting the prints I want on matte, although I like the matte look and texture.
Guy's tip to judge sharpness at less than 100% is good. You want to judge where sharpening is being applied and how it affects the image at 100%, especially any creative sharpening (I belong to the Fraser 3-stage sharpening crowd), but an image properly sharpened for printing will look very 'crunchy' to funky at 100%. Again this is something you learn to judge and varies based on what kind of monitor (LCD vs CRT) you use and its quality.
Doing your own fine art printing is a whole different realm of your photography. There is almost as much to learn as just being able to take a good picture. John Paul Caponigro has some good tutorials on printing and proofing, I think most are free or available with a free subscription to his newsletter. Also, I highly recommend the Camera to Print video from Luminous Landscape. It ties together many aspects of the digital workflow with a quality print as the goal. The LL forums are a great source of info too, and many here know.
Overall, expect to burn some ink and paper. A majority of my printing over the last year has been experimentation, paper testing, etc. But when it came time to make some prints for a recent display, I was ready and very happy with the results.
Good luck and have fun!
Thanks for the tips. Glad to hear at least I'm on the right track. I've got the LL camera to print (which inspired me to finally purchase a printer) and use PK sharpener for input and output sharpening. I guess I'll need to trust it and not be so worried about oversharpening (at least not at first).
Cheers all,
Alex
http://www.solux.net
Most paper and ink combinations will exhibit varying degrees of metamerism (color shifts under different light) but you will get the most accurate, predictable results working in a controlled environment.