Posted by jack chapman on January 4, 2008 at 12:45 PM
...taken today. Not as sharp as i would like it and the resizing has done it no favours but it'll do until i can go back
350D + 300mm F4L + 1.4 extender
1/80 @ F5.6
ISO 400
set up and from a hide
question was if anyone knows about any software for noise reduction that doesn't reduce sharpness, i'm having problems with this winter being so gloomy and and the 350D's ISO 800 so noisy.
Posted by Andy Shepherd on January 4, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Hi Jack,
Nice shot , colours need toning down a touch IMO , try reducing the saturation a tad
Try Noiseninja , think it only costs about £20 though I might be wrong.
Regards
Andy...
Posted by Mark Fellowes on January 4, 2008 at 1:20 PM
Hi Jack
You can't have your cake and eat it, I'm afraid. The easiest thing is to make a new layer, use something like Noise Ninja (works well - for me anyway), and then erase the bits you don't want (i,e, so that you're left with the detail where you want it - Andy A has posted on this a few times and given very good advice). I think that noise is mainly a problem if you have big OOF areas - like your (very nice) background here. It's not a problem in the leaves or the tit. Also, it's much less of a problem in prints I find. Anyway, I'd rather have noise and a shot than no shot at all...
Mark
Posted by jack chapman on January 4, 2008 at 1:24 PM
Thanks Andy
I just had a quick look at noiseninja, and it calls itself a photoshop plug-in, will it work without photoshop though
Oh and how does this look?
Posted by jack chapman on January 4, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Thanks Mark
Is there much difference then between what you suggested and merely blurring the background
A nice shot.... your second post seems to have even worse noise issues than the first ... ?
As a rule noise reduction should only be carried out on areas that need it, in this case the bg... either by using layers or the history brush in PS, however in your second post you seem to indicate that you are not using Photoshop... can you elaborate...
Posted by Mark Fellowes on January 4, 2008 at 1:56 PM
Hi Jack
I hadn't really thought about that, I guess that blurring smears what you have, whereas noise reduction is much more complex and tries to separate the wheat from the chaff. Noise is a result of your sensor producing a signal when it shouldn't; programs like NN know what the noise characteristics of your camera are at different ISOs (assuming you've downloaded the profiles, or you can autoprofile each image), and tries to identify and remove these characteristic patterns from your image.
So, the nice thing about programs like NN is that they try to prevent you from losing detail and you can fine control how much noise is removed, but like I said - nothing's perfect. Feather detail can be lost by the combination of high ISO and overly aggressive noise reduction, so a fairly light touch is fine I think. Looking at your two posts, I'd say that the first looks a bit better - the second looks oversharpened to me.
To go back to my original point - in your post, noise only seems to be an issue in the BG, where it's noticable, but it's not intrusive elsewhere in my opinion.I think that noise reduction is like sharpening - best done where needed, rather than as a general treatment for an image.
Mark
Posted by jack chapman on January 4, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Hi Phil
No i don't have photoshop, it is on my rather extensive to buy list, however as i'm sure you know it isn't cheap
Hi Mark
Thanks, i think i follow what you are saying, not sure what you mean by downloaded the profiles though
Elements (which I will use at work when I don't need all the bells and whistles) has some functionality with plug-ins, and I'm sure that most of the NR plug-ins will be compatable.
Phil
Posted by jack chapman on January 5, 2008 at 6:13 AM
Hi Phil
If you are still there.
I don't do much PP usually other than USM, which i do in a program called photostudio 5.5, which came free with something.
A while back i had to supply someone, with a large number of Tiffs so i downloaded a 30 day trial Photoshop, and was using that for a while
I am not familiar with Photostudio I'm afraid, some of the noise reduction progs can run as stand alone apps but that is not ideal as NR needs to be applied selectively...
The best advice I can give is to look at getting a copy of Photoshop Elements, I really have no idea as to its current cost but it is prob around the £70 mark (a lot better than the full blown PS) it has all the functionality that its very expensive brother has, just a little more hidden.....
Sorry my reply is a little late...
Phil
Posted by Mark Caton on January 6, 2008 at 2:00 PM
There is a standalone version of Noise Ninja.
http://www.picturecode.com/download.htm
You can try it for free, but it puts a watermark over your image, which is a bit counter intuitive...
Discussion
12 replies350D + 300mm F4L + 1.4 extender
1/80 @ F5.6
ISO 400
set up and from a hide
question was if anyone knows about any software for noise reduction that doesn't reduce sharpness, i'm having problems with this winter being so gloomy and and the 350D's ISO 800 so noisy.
Nice shot , colours need toning down a touch IMO , try reducing the saturation a tad
Try Noiseninja , think it only costs about £20 though I might be wrong.
Regards
Andy...
You can't have your cake and eat it, I'm afraid. The easiest thing is to make a new layer, use something like Noise Ninja (works well - for me anyway), and then erase the bits you don't want (i,e, so that you're left with the detail where you want it - Andy A has posted on this a few times and given very good advice). I think that noise is mainly a problem if you have big OOF areas - like your (very nice) background here. It's not a problem in the leaves or the tit. Also, it's much less of a problem in prints I find. Anyway, I'd rather have noise and a shot than no shot at all...
Mark
I just had a quick look at noiseninja, and it calls itself a photoshop plug-in, will it work without photoshop though
Oh and how does this look?
Is there much difference then between what you suggested and merely blurring the background
Jack
A nice shot.... your second post seems to have even worse noise issues than the first ... ?
As a rule noise reduction should only be carried out on areas that need it, in this case the bg... either by using layers or the history brush in PS, however in your second post you seem to indicate that you are not using Photoshop... can you elaborate...
I hadn't really thought about that, I guess that blurring smears what you have, whereas noise reduction is much more complex and tries to separate the wheat from the chaff. Noise is a result of your sensor producing a signal when it shouldn't; programs like NN know what the noise characteristics of your camera are at different ISOs (assuming you've downloaded the profiles, or you can autoprofile each image), and tries to identify and remove these characteristic patterns from your image.
So, the nice thing about programs like NN is that they try to prevent you from losing detail and you can fine control how much noise is removed, but like I said - nothing's perfect. Feather detail can be lost by the combination of high ISO and overly aggressive noise reduction, so a fairly light touch is fine I think. Looking at your two posts, I'd say that the first looks a bit better - the second looks oversharpened to me.
To go back to my original point - in your post, noise only seems to be an issue in the BG, where it's noticable, but it's not intrusive elsewhere in my opinion.I think that noise reduction is like sharpening - best done where needed, rather than as a general treatment for an image.
Mark
No i don't have photoshop, it is on my rather extensive to buy list, however as i'm sure you know it isn't cheap
Hi Mark
Thanks, i think i follow what you are saying, not sure what you mean by downloaded the profiles though
There is vertical banding on the second image, a tad of noise reduction too far..
T
What program are you using for PP?
Elements (which I will use at work when I don't need all the bells and whistles) has some functionality with plug-ins, and I'm sure that most of the NR plug-ins will be compatable.
Phil
If you are still there.
I don't do much PP usually other than USM, which i do in a program called photostudio 5.5, which came free with something.
A while back i had to supply someone, with a large number of Tiffs so i downloaded a 30 day trial Photoshop, and was using that for a while
Jack
No sorry, I wasn't still there..
I am not familiar with Photostudio I'm afraid, some of the noise reduction progs can run as stand alone apps but that is not ideal as NR needs to be applied selectively...
The best advice I can give is to look at getting a copy of Photoshop Elements, I really have no idea as to its current cost but it is prob around the £70 mark (a lot better than the full blown PS) it has all the functionality that its very expensive brother has, just a little more hidden.....
Sorry my reply is a little late...
Phil
http://www.picturecode.com/download.htm
You can try it for free, but it puts a watermark over your image, which is a bit counter intuitive...
Mark