I'm now sitting waiting for Bob Rigby to get at least one other body in for me to compare, but I think this one must be faulty; surely they've not designed it this way
I think it needs to go back to Nikon don't you folks?
Hi Andy the images in the link look a little out of focus to me, have you tried the same image in capture NX as ACR isn't the best raw converter for the NEF even though the latest version with CS 3 is much better than the older version in CS2 are still not as good as NX.
Phillip.
Ps the sharpness is also affected by which colour mode you shoot in standard neutral or vivid along with D2x mode 1 2 and 3
Posted by Andy Astbury on January 15, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Phillip - I was hoping you'd pick this thread up!
ACR - pish,pish! Never had it on my system - horrible!
No, these were converted to 16 bit tiffs with my usual ViewNX workflow. The full frames will look soft-ish as there's no post sharpening on them either.
[qoute]the sharpness is also affected by which colour mode you shoot in standard neutral or vivid along with D2x mode 1 2 and 3[/quote]
...crikey Phillip....D2X modes... what page number in the massive manual is that on
Posted by Mike Smith on January 15, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Not sure what lens the comparisons are shot with, but as a general principal as the photosites get smaller effects of diffraction softening can kick in earlier - The test was at F11 - have you tried shooting at F8 or wider aperture to see if you get the same result?
Can you micro adjust each lens for the camera like you can with the Canon?
Sorry if thats a stupid question
Jacqui
Posted by Andy Astbury on January 15, 2008 at 2:12 PM
Mike - f10 not 11 - D2Xs and seemingly the D300 are difraction limited to f11.
I've only taken a few images with the D300 when the weather has allowed - it wasn't until Saturday that I took it out with the 800mm - that's when I noticed the images were softer than those off the D2Xs.
Both shots in the test were focussed on the spotlamp nearest the center.
Jaqui - with the 1D3 system it's the camera you adjust to the lens.
Posted by Tim Munsey on January 15, 2008 at 2:14 PM
I've no idea, but could it be an anti-aliasing filter product? The filter being stronger on the D300. I reckon its a focussing problem though.
Hi Andy it's good to know that you used nx as it makes it simpler, the d2x colour modes are downloadable from nikon UK's web site and you can upload them to the d3/300 these are written by nikon to give continuity of image look between the three models, although the AA filter does appear to be a little stronger on the 300 it shouldn't be that soft even at iso 800 and above, so the conclusion must be it is likely missing focus, I know with my 800 I have the Micro adjustment set to -3 which seems to be perfect even with a 1.4 converter on, I know with my d2x there is a tiny amount back focus quarter of an inch so to rectify this I always have it set to the closest subject priority nikon and Sigma have tried to calibrate my lens and body more accurately but it seems to put it from back focus to front focus by the same amount.
Phillip.
Posted by Graeme Lee on January 15, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Ya big nerd Astbury By the way I have no idea..........about anything!
Posted by Paul Gibbs on January 15, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Having had a long chat with a journo friend who shoots almost every make under the sun, his findings is that the D300 PPS (per pixel sharpness) is around that of the D200, which is damn good, but lower than the D2X's. His take on it was the D300 had a £100 sensor with a £50 AA filter, and the D2X a £200 sensor with a £100 filter. Having known this guy for years i know he has no axe to grind. He shoots Canon for his day job and shoots Nikon for his hobby...
Having looked at images from the D300 and looked at them again, there is a (slight) difference in sharpness against the D2X. Maybe sharpness is the wrong term, its more like how resolute the combined sensor and aa filter are.
Posted by tony flashman on January 15, 2008 at 6:00 PM
Hi Andy
I use both D2X and the D300.
I have not seen any real difference between the sharpness of the D300 compared to the D2X.
HOWEVER have you noticed that if you apply even a tiny fraction of exposure compensation using NX that the D300 image goes out of focus while a D2X image does not. Try it for yourself and see, perhaps this could be the problem?
Hi Tony that is the way nx is designed if you apply any setting other than the in camera settings it automatically switches the in camera settings off giving you a raw file with the single adjustments you have made.
Phillip.
Posted by Andy Astbury on January 15, 2008 at 8:31 PM
Hi Tony/Phillip - I'd not noticed to be honest - I only use NX to view then convert selected individual images to 16bit TIFFS and open them straight into CS3.
Obviously with the D300 I got the latest CaptureNX but as yet I havn't got my head around it.
Phillip, in your previous reply you mentioned that with your 800 you have the Micro adjust set to -3.
Now can you PLEASE tell me what you are talking about here because I've misplaced my reading glasses and the 300 manual might as well be written in cyrillic for what little of it I can read
Hi Andy the d3/300 has the ability like two of the canon bodies 1d3/1ds3 to users select the point of focus,
so if you have a lens that constantly back focuses by a small amount but is within tolerance which is usually one-third of the depth of field for the given F stop, this feature allows you to move the point of focus backwards or forward,
on page 327 in the manual for the d300 describes the procedure, you can save the information of 12 lenses on the d300 and 20 on the d3 it applies the same adjustment for all of the same lenses of the same focal length that is if you have like I do several 24 mm lenses and adjusted for one that is front focusing slightly it will apply this adjustment to all my other 24 mm lenses.
You may think this is annoying but it is very easy to switch this feature on and off without having to constantly readjust for different lenses of the same focal length.
Phillip.
Posted by Andy Bate on January 16, 2008 at 6:49 AM
i think you should run some courses phil!!! id come!!! you know alot!!
Posted by Paul Williams on January 16, 2008 at 3:53 PM
I use both D2X and the D300. I have not seen any real difference between the sharpness of the D300 compared to the D2X. HOWEVER have you noticed that if you apply even a tiny fraction of exposure compensation using NX that the D300 image goes out of focus while a D2X image does not. Try it for yourself and see, perhaps this could be the problem?
Regards Tony
This is a known and irritating bug with NX. Any change to exposure compensation in NX disables any sharpening set in the new 'picture control' for D3 and D300 cameras. In theory at least the bug is being addressed by Nikon but no ETA for a fix yet that I'm aware of.
This could indeed be your problem Andy, it's certainly worth checking before programming in any focus adjustment for the lens.
Discussion
15 replieshttp://www.wildlifeinpixels.com/D300vD2Xs.htm
I'm now sitting waiting for Bob Rigby to get at least one other body in for me to compare, but I think this one must be faulty; surely they've not designed it this way
I think it needs to go back to Nikon don't you folks?
Good job I've not paid for it
Phillip.
Ps the sharpness is also affected by which colour mode you shoot in standard neutral or vivid along with D2x mode 1 2 and 3
ACR - pish,pish! Never had it on my system - horrible!
No, these were converted to 16 bit tiffs with my usual ViewNX workflow. The full frames will look soft-ish as there's no post sharpening on them either.
[qoute]the sharpness is also affected by which colour mode you shoot in standard neutral or vivid along with D2x mode 1 2 and 3[/quote]
...crikey Phillip....D2X modes... what page number in the massive manual is that on
Sorry if thats a stupid question
Jacqui
I've only taken a few images with the D300 when the weather has allowed - it wasn't until Saturday that I took it out with the 800mm - that's when I noticed the images were softer than those off the D2Xs.
Both shots in the test were focussed on the spotlamp nearest the center.
Jaqui - with the 1D3 system it's the camera you adjust to the lens.
Tim
Phillip.
Having looked at images from the D300 and looked at them again, there is a (slight) difference in sharpness against the D2X. Maybe sharpness is the wrong term, its more like how resolute the combined sensor and aa filter are.
I use both D2X and the D300.
I have not seen any real difference between the sharpness of the D300 compared to the D2X.
HOWEVER have you noticed that if you apply even a tiny fraction of exposure compensation using NX that the D300 image goes out of focus while a D2X image does not. Try it for yourself and see, perhaps this could be the problem?
Regards
Tony
Phillip.
Obviously with the D300 I got the latest CaptureNX but as yet I havn't got my head around it.
Phillip, in your previous reply you mentioned that with your 800 you have the Micro adjust set to -3.
Now can you PLEASE tell me what you are talking about here because I've misplaced my reading glasses and the 300 manual might as well be written in cyrillic for what little of it I can read
so if you have a lens that constantly back focuses by a small amount but is within tolerance which is usually one-third of the depth of field for the given F stop, this feature allows you to move the point of focus backwards or forward,
on page 327 in the manual for the d300 describes the procedure, you can save the information of 12 lenses on the d300 and 20 on the d3 it applies the same adjustment for all of the same lenses of the same focal length that is if you have like I do several 24 mm lenses and adjusted for one that is front focusing slightly it will apply this adjustment to all my other 24 mm lenses.
You may think this is annoying but it is very easy to switch this feature on and off without having to constantly readjust for different lenses of the same focal length.
Phillip.
This is a known and irritating bug with NX. Any change to exposure compensation in NX disables any sharpening set in the new 'picture control' for D3 and D300 cameras. In theory at least the bug is being addressed by Nikon but no ETA for a fix yet that I'm aware of.
This could indeed be your problem Andy, it's certainly worth checking before programming in any focus adjustment for the lens.
Paul