Posted by Rene Pirolt on January 24, 2008 at 1:22 AM
Just popped over to the Canon site, and low and behold they just announced a new camera – the Rebel XSi a 12.2 MP camera. They also produced a couple new lenses. I wonder what else they have up their sleeve!
Posted by Derek Sedillo on January 24, 2008 at 1:31 AM
Rene,
I was really hoping for the new 5D this PMA. But most sources now concur that it will be released later in the year, possibly at Photokina this Fall.
But I hope they still have something else up their sleeve before then. Maybe a FF 3D or 7D or ...?
Posted by Bill Pelzmann on January 24, 2008 at 1:57 AM
Rene, are the two new lenses the previously announced 200 mm and 800 mm?
Or did you see something in addition to these?
That 800mm would be nice, but $12,000 suggested retail makes the 500 mm look like a bargain!
I think I'll look for bigger birds.
Looks like a very nice entry level camera - great features for the price!
At 12.2MP, you'd think this should finally top out the pixel density on the 1.6x sensor!
But no CF card slot! Well, I guess they assume the entry level market probably won't have a drawer full of CF cards?
Posted by Phillip Noll on January 24, 2008 at 9:54 AM
I may have to get one of these and use my 1Ds as a backup!
Posted by Mel Ladewig on January 24, 2008 at 11:50 AM
I really like my Rebel XT because of its light weight, compact size and good image quality, especially at ISO 100. Its been a good little landscape camera. But the switch to SD on this one is killing me and I doubt I'd upgrade to this model for that reason.
Of course since I went to large format, I'm not strongly driven to upgrade my dslr anyways, but I am concerned that my XT will eventually wear out and need replacement.
At 12.2MP, you'd think this should finally top out the pixel density on the 1.6x sensor!
I don't think so. There are 12+MP point and shoots out there. They'll keep pushing the mega pixels until the buying public realizes that it isn't helping them to get better photos. I could see 20MP or higher 1.6 crop bodies in the future.
People complain about the noise, but to me, if the lens resolution will support it and ISO 100 isn't noisy, then they can put as many pixels on a sensor as they want. Fine by me.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on January 24, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Yes,
It is amazing that most current p&s cameras go to 12mp with those 'tiny' sensors. I think the noise levels become much more apparent upon larger printing, closer inspection and shooting at ISOs over 100. I don't think most p&s'ers really notice the noise and just like the higher mp numbers - bragging rights. Before you know it there will be 12mp cell phones.
I definitely want more resolution as I am still shooting with my 6mp 10D. But I don't want to sacrifice noise at higher ISOs to get there. It will be interesting to see the detailed reviews of these latest high MP cameras when comparing noise with their predecessors. Sensor technology is advancing. So 'if' for example the new Digic III processor can handle the additional data while maintaining current noise levels it shouldn't be a problem.
Posted by Bill Pelzmann on January 24, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Yes, Phillip, that ancient 1Ds is best used as a boat anchor.
Posted by Todd Caudle on January 24, 2008 at 3:18 PM
I'm not up on this, so please tell me what the qualitative differences are between CF cards and SD/HDSD, or whatever they are. I have no idea.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on January 24, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Todd,
CF cards are what you're using. Compact Flash
SD cards are about the size of a postage stamp. You'll lose them with your change in the sofa. This is short for "secure digital" I think.
They both do the same thing, but SD cards are supposed to have a theoretically faster architecture than CF cards (I don't believe this is true in any production models). Another advantage to SD is that they connect with tabs like a USB cable. CF connects with pins that can be bent or broken.
My biggest issue with the SD cards is that if you drop one (easy to do since they so small) it would be easy to loose them in grass or snow. But my other issue is that I already have all the storage I need in CF cards and don't want to re-purchase that storage in SD cards.
Another irritating thing with the new rebel is that they changed the battery AND the grip. I have the XT/XTi grip and 5 batteries in good condition. I don't use the grip often, and I doubt I'd buy the new one, but it would be nice if my grip would fit on the XSi.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on January 24, 2008 at 3:56 PM
I definitely want more resolution as I am still shooting with my 6mp 10D. But I don't want to sacrifice noise at higher ISOs to get there. It will be interesting to see the detailed reviews of these latest high MP cameras when comparing noise with their predecessors. Sensor technology is advancing. So 'if' for example the new Digic III processor can handle the additional data while maintaining current noise levels it shouldn't be a problem.
You really ought to look at the new stuff Derek. The 40D reviews all put its noise performance on par with the 30D. No additional noise. Plus there were more pixels, so the noise could become less apparent when printed (as opposed to viewing at 100% on a monitor). Maybe the 40D would be the best fit, but I don't think there would be anything wrong with the 450D either. The files are much cleaner than you'd think and both are probably much cleaner than your 10D.
But also, in my own printing style, I tend to use high ISO for family snapshots. Its very unlikely that I'll do more than print a 4X6 from these. At ISO 100, where I shoot landscape photos (which are the only ones I really print large) the noise is very minimal on any image I've ever taken and any image I've seen from the newer generation cameras. If you shoot wildlife, this may be an issue for you, but it just isn't for me. Like I said, as long as the lenses can support the pixel density, I'd take as many pixels as they can cram on the sensor for my landscape photos.
Posted by John Mumaw on January 24, 2008 at 4:17 PM
I upgraded from the 10D to the 40D, and it was well worth the wait.
Files are much cleaner at higher ISO speeds, and the addition of spot metering, Highlight Tone Priority, RAW + JPEG capture, a larger LCD screen, instant 'on' and a boost in resolution all combined to make this the camera I was waiting for and which will last me for a very long time.
Posted by Paul Martin on January 24, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Like a lot of other 5D owners, I too was waiting to see if there would be an update of that body. Perhaps Canon broke the mold, I dunno. One particular thing that is encouraging about his new Rebel is that they've finally upgraded the viewfinder -- which was certainly lacking on that model line in comparison. I would have liked to see some new and improved wides, the new Nikon wide certainly sets an impressive benchmark.
Posted by Bill Pelzmann on January 24, 2008 at 11:36 PM
Paul, I was skeptical that a new 5D would be released so soon after the 1DsM3.
Canon shipped the original 5D in the summer after the 1DsM2.
Makes marketing sense to avoid cannibalism of sales.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on January 24, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Yeah,
I had a feeling I would have to wait longer for the 5D II. But I have waited this long so I guess can wait a little longer for it. Then if it is not much of an upgrade I'll pick up a new or mint 5D I for a great price.
While the 40D was an impressive upgrade I am definately ready to move to FF now. I have also been considering a used 1DS II which have dropped down in price significanly since the 1DS III came out. And the mk II is still one of the best FF DSLRs ever made.
Posted by Todd Caudle on January 25, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Thanks Mel. Some of the comments I mistook as calling SD cards inferior to CF, but now I see the issues. Also, the lack of cross-compatibility really does suck, both with cards and batteries/grips.
I got my 5D the minute it was available, which was the last few days of September '05. I'd guess the next gen will probably pop up around then this year.
Discussion
14 repliesI was really hoping for the new 5D this PMA. But most sources now concur that it will be released later in the year, possibly at Photokina this Fall.
But I hope they still have something else up their sleeve before then. Maybe a FF 3D or 7D or ...?
Or did you see something in addition to these?
That 800mm would be nice, but $12,000 suggested retail makes the 500 mm look like a bargain!
I think I'll look for bigger birds.
Looks like a very nice entry level camera - great features for the price!
At 12.2MP, you'd think this should finally top out the pixel density on the 1.6x sensor!
But no CF card slot! Well, I guess they assume the entry level market probably won't have a drawer full of CF cards?
Of course since I went to large format, I'm not strongly driven to upgrade my dslr anyways, but I am concerned that my XT will eventually wear out and need replacement.
I don't think so. There are 12+MP point and shoots out there. They'll keep pushing the mega pixels until the buying public realizes that it isn't helping them to get better photos. I could see 20MP or higher 1.6 crop bodies in the future.
People complain about the noise, but to me, if the lens resolution will support it and ISO 100 isn't noisy, then they can put as many pixels on a sensor as they want. Fine by me.
It is amazing that most current p&s cameras go to 12mp with those 'tiny' sensors. I think the noise levels become much more apparent upon larger printing, closer inspection and shooting at ISOs over 100. I don't think most p&s'ers really notice the noise and just like the higher mp numbers - bragging rights. Before you know it there will be 12mp cell phones.
I definitely want more resolution as I am still shooting with my 6mp 10D. But I don't want to sacrifice noise at higher ISOs to get there. It will be interesting to see the detailed reviews of these latest high MP cameras when comparing noise with their predecessors. Sensor technology is advancing. So 'if' for example the new Digic III processor can handle the additional data while maintaining current noise levels it shouldn't be a problem.
CF cards are what you're using. Compact Flash
SD cards are about the size of a postage stamp. You'll lose them with your change in the sofa. This is short for "secure digital" I think.
They both do the same thing, but SD cards are supposed to have a theoretically faster architecture than CF cards (I don't believe this is true in any production models). Another advantage to SD is that they connect with tabs like a USB cable. CF connects with pins that can be bent or broken.
My biggest issue with the SD cards is that if you drop one (easy to do since they so small) it would be easy to loose them in grass or snow. But my other issue is that I already have all the storage I need in CF cards and don't want to re-purchase that storage in SD cards.
Another irritating thing with the new rebel is that they changed the battery AND the grip. I have the XT/XTi grip and 5 batteries in good condition. I don't use the grip often, and I doubt I'd buy the new one, but it would be nice if my grip would fit on the XSi.
You really ought to look at the new stuff Derek. The 40D reviews all put its noise performance on par with the 30D. No additional noise. Plus there were more pixels, so the noise could become less apparent when printed (as opposed to viewing at 100% on a monitor). Maybe the 40D would be the best fit, but I don't think there would be anything wrong with the 450D either. The files are much cleaner than you'd think and both are probably much cleaner than your 10D.
But also, in my own printing style, I tend to use high ISO for family snapshots. Its very unlikely that I'll do more than print a 4X6 from these. At ISO 100, where I shoot landscape photos (which are the only ones I really print large) the noise is very minimal on any image I've ever taken and any image I've seen from the newer generation cameras. If you shoot wildlife, this may be an issue for you, but it just isn't for me. Like I said, as long as the lenses can support the pixel density, I'd take as many pixels as they can cram on the sensor for my landscape photos.
Files are much cleaner at higher ISO speeds, and the addition of spot metering, Highlight Tone Priority, RAW + JPEG capture, a larger LCD screen, instant 'on' and a boost in resolution all combined to make this the camera I was waiting for and which will last me for a very long time.
Canon shipped the original 5D in the summer after the 1DsM2.
Makes marketing sense to avoid cannibalism of sales.
I had a feeling I would have to wait longer for the 5D II. But I have waited this long so I guess can wait a little longer for it. Then if it is not much of an upgrade I'll pick up a new or mint 5D I for a great price.
While the 40D was an impressive upgrade I am definately ready to move to FF now. I have also been considering a used 1DS II which have dropped down in price significanly since the 1DS III came out. And the mk II is still one of the best FF DSLRs ever made.
I got my 5D the minute it was available, which was the last few days of September '05. I'd guess the next gen will probably pop up around then this year.