Nikon Tilt/Shift lenses

This had been a gap in Nikon's lens line for a long time:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012907nikkorpce24.asp

Guy

I got all excited when I saw that yesterday, but then I saw the price will be about $2,000. Oh well.


Kent in SD

Sweet! Now I hope Canon will upgrade the glass on the TS-E's! As good as they are, I think that they could be awesome with upgraded glass (at least the 24mm). These lenses haven't changed since their design in the early 80's!

It certainly got my antennae humming, but not the way they would for a pro lens replacement for th 24-120VR! Nonetheless, it's nice to have another lens or two for the wish list!

It would be great if canon would upgrade the glass in their TS-E lenses..then maybe I could pick up a set of the old ones for cheap!

Good news for Nikon shooters. If they keep this up, I might consider switching

No, I've got too much invested in Canon gear to make that happen, but it is a nice addition to their lineup. Hopefully, that $2,000 is an MSRP rather than a street price.

The prices quoted are MSRP.
The really good news is that it is the first of three with a 45mm f/2.8 PC and a new 85mm f/2.8 PC Micro Nikkors in development for release as soon as possible.

Nikon also said they are going to concentrate on Prime lenses for the near future!

I hope sometime soon we'll all be able to see some test shots with this lens! I'm very curious to see them!

Though I'm not exactly sure what the point is. But that's why I want to see some photos taken with it. =P

Matt, here is what the lenses are trying to do. Suppose you are trying to photograph a large field of flowers. With standard 35mm lenses, to get maximum DOF you have a combination of two choices. Parallel the camera back to the plane of focus or increase the f-stop to 22+.

Here are the two main issues with this. For a small f-stop, you give up shutter speed and some sharpness due to diffraction. Second, you cannot alway get the camera back parallel to the plane of focus. On flat ground, you need to be hanging over the field. On ground that falls away from you (essentially, you are point the camera downhill), the background falls away from the plane of focus very quickly. Hyperfocussing to deal with it gets you back to a small f-stop.

So how can you get maximum DOF with a minimal shutter speed and a midrange f-stop? With a standard 35 mm lens, you can't do this. To accomplish it, you would need to go to a view camera, where the movements of the lens allow you to place the plane of focus exactly where it needs to be, not where it is forced by having the lens parallel to the back to the camera. The TS lenses accomplish this - you get some of the view camera movements in a 35 mm setup.

Looking at it another way: suppose you have the camera setup to shoot straight ahead. However, the surface you are trying to focus on is tilted. To focus on the top of the scene, you would need focus at 30', while the bottom of the scene is at 10'. As a compromise, you focus at 17', and go to hyperfocal charts to determine the f-stop. You've made a couple of compromises - estimating distances, f-stop and shutter speed, placement of the point of focus.

Now suppose you could somehow tip the camera lens just a bit, so the camera is more parallel to the subject. That would let you use a larger stop, for a faster shutter speed and possibly sharper f-stop with less effects of diffraction. Normally, you can't do that, since it would change the composition you had in mind. Maybe not by much, but it would still change.

The tilt-shift lenses allow you to accomplish this parallelling, without giving anything up in exchange. You can use the same hyperfocal f-stop to get everything in focus, but you no longer *have* to do that. You have more creative control.

You can also use the same movements to make things go out of focus very quickly and place a line of sharpness more precisely than you could by simply going to f2.8. It allows a line of focus to go in a direction not parallel to the camera back as you would ordinarily achieve.

With a large format camera and enough movements, you can actually have the film plane perpendicular to the ground and theoretically move the lens downwards so that the floor, from the top of the film to the bottom, is in sharp focus at f1 (not that LF lenses are that fast or even sharp wide open - f4.5 is a fast LF lens). Short of hanging the camera from the ceiling, you can't do this with a 35 mm-based lens.

These lenses make use of what is called the Scheimpflug principle. which is actually far easier to demonstrate than explain, but hopefully the above gives some hint as to why it is useful. Large format photographers live and die by it. The Lensbaby also exploits it in its movements, usually to go to the opposite direction of making things NOT sharp. If you understand how (although maybe not why) the Lensbaby works, the TS lenses operate on the same principle, but are of significantly higher quality.

Dan - One little thing. I don't think T&S lenses give you increased DOF. I think they just change the plane of the DOF, right? So for a regular lens, the plane that's exactly in focus is always parallel to the sensor/film, with a certain amount in front and behind somewhat in focus. With these lenses, that plane can just be moved around.

I understand in a lot of shots this gives the appearance of greater DOF on the subject, but there are usually other areas of the image that will be OOF - areas which may not matter for the given shot.

For those of you that use them, how much difference in aperture would you say you can usually "gain" by not having to go very small? Like if you were going to shoot a scene at f/22 with a standard lens, how large an aperture can you use with a T+S lens? I suppose it might be subject dependent...

David - right, the TS doesn't give you increased DOF, just the impression of increased DOF due to being able to place the place of focus exactly where you want it to be. The first sentence of the third paragraph makes this confusing. Thanks for clarifying.

Canon is goin down ! Their poor QC will be their end.

Doug, you're out of touch dude! Maybe you should go take a nap for about 100 years or something.

Brand loyalty aside, this a clear acknowledgment by Nikon of a great innovation by Canon.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Pete D.

Jerry, You're dreaming you are awake.

While I have the current 85mm tilt/shift Micro Nikkor, and I can see application for scenics with the 24mm tilt/shift, I wonder if there is really much use for the 45mm T/S? I'm curious how many Canon users have one and use it?

I've had all three of the TS-E's from day one of moving to digital from large-format. The lens that I use the least is the 90mm.

That's interesting Alex. I was always under the impression that Nikon had no TS lenses. Why did people seem to say that? Does that lens not work on full frame or something?

Nikon's had two PC lenses for years--the 85mm that Alex mentioned (I rented that once, back when I was still shooting film...it really helped stretch the DOF for close-up photography) and the 28mm. Only the 85mm is a true T/S lens...the 28 doesn't tilt, it only shifts. I received a used version of the 28 as a gift some years ago--also back in the film era)--but after playing with it briefly, I thanked the gift-giver and but suggested that the lens be returned to the reputable used equipment dealer (KEH) for a refund. Without the tilt function, I didn't feel it had enough utility for my photography to make it worth the cost.

Both lenses work just fine on full frame cameras; they were designed for 35mm film cameras.

So why, for instance, did Guy mention that the new lenses fill a gap in Nikon's lens line? What was the old Nikon lens missing that the new one will have?

There were only two old lenses--an 85mm T/S and a 28 mm shift-only. Two of the new Nikon T/S lenses had nothing comparable--the 24mm wide angle that's linked above (note that the old wide angle PC Nikkor was NOT a tilt-shift lens). The 45mm T/S announced has never had a Nikon focal length equivalent, so that's brand new.

The 85mm is an update of the old version of the same lens. I'm not seeing a link to specs on the new version, so I can't be sure how the new one differs.

Actually Nikon had two shift lenses. They were called PC (perspective control) and were designed primarliy for architectural photography. I've owned both and in my opinion the tilt is more important than the shift for my style of photography. The PC lenses came in a 28mm and a 35mm. I have also owned the 85 PC micro which has both tilt and shift. In addition it is a macro lens so you can use it for close ups as well. It also focuses to infinity so it was fairly similar to the Canon 90 TS.

I didn't realize that there was a 35mm PC. Interesting....

The 35mm f/2.8 PC lens was not as popular as the 28mm f/3.5 PC. Neither one shows up on the used market very often, but the 28mm commands a much higher price.
John Shaw used the 105mm short mount Nikkor on the Nikon PB-4 bellows which had a swing/tilt feature, though I don't think it had shift capability.

Alex, the PB-4 does have shift as well. It also has a rotational collar on the lens mount end of the bellows that lets you change from horizontal to vertical orientation without flipping the bellows over on it's side.