Posted by Ryan Askren on February 7, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Hey,
Another newbie question. Do most of you use NEF or JPEG format? I have always used JPEG and don't know anything about NEF. What are the pros and cons? I understand you have to do some processing on the computer afterwards? Can you do this with Photoshop CS2? I'm shooting a nikon system if that makes any difference. Thank you for your help.
For my own work I almost always shoot NEF uncompressed. It affords the best quality. If required it can be changed down to another format., but if you shoot in a lower quality you can't put it back.
Commercially you may have a client who might not need NEF quality and may wish to shoot in another format.
Shoot NEF now and the dozens of ways that it is superior will become evident to you over time. You will thank yourself later.
Scott
Posted by Steve Foss on February 7, 2008 at 10:14 PM
You might also do a search of these forums for discussions of RAW/NEF vs JPEG. The topic has been covered many times in many ways,
Posted by Ryan Askren on February 7, 2008 at 10:43 PM
So what software do I need?
Posted by David Bostedo on February 7, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Ryan - CS2 comes with a RAW converter, but it may not support very recent camera models. Here's a good overview of RAW and JPG, pros, cons, and other info...
I find that RAW is the best approach for the digital media as you are given full control over how the camera data gets converted to an image file. CS2 comes with ARC Adobe Raw Converter and this does a decent job of converting the data. The best source of knowledge I have found is Steve Kelby's book entitled "7 point system for Adobe Photoshop CS3". It shows you step by step the correct and efficient way to convert your file and, once you understand the process, its only a matter of minutes or seconds for the initial conversion. Once the file is in PS then the sky is the limit to what you can do but, ideally, all you want to do is color correct (with levels or curves); crop if you need to; and sharpen. CS2 or CS3 they probably don't matter for you. I use CS3 and it has a couple of excellent features such a better B&W conversion and a simpler print dialogue. Smart Sharpen is also nice but I can't recall if that was new with CS3. Hope this helps and go buy the book (at Amazon or Chapters)
It will help to know what Nikon you are shooting. Also, how many photos do you intend to shoot before you download and begin processing them (RAW-NEF or JPG)? Will every photo be very similiar (like in the same light and contrast, etc.) or will they be very different? This can make a difference in your processing time because you can batch process them if they are very close. Guess the same can be said whether they are being processed with a RAW software or CS.
What is your end result? Will they be for museum quality large prints? Or will they be for the internet? Or will they be for simple family or vacation snaps? This makes a difference in how much time you want to devote to the processing. Depending on the result, you may want some in NEF and the majority in JPG so the file sizes will be more manageable. You should really read up on the differences between the formats, the size difference, the processing differences, and the time difference you will spend processing in one format or the other. Also, you need to be real familiar with what your camera settings will be for both NEF and JPG. Alot of processing can happen in-camera - and some of them you are not going to want and some you will want depending if you are shooting for jpg or NEF. You are making a big step going to NEF especially as a newbie as stated. Some people will spend a LONG time getting their "snap" shot just right in post processing when a few simple "fixes" would have saved major time and the average viewer couldn't tell the difference. For myself, I enjoy spending time shooting images much more than post processing.
Once again, alot of this depends on what you intend the end result. Museum quality might need NEF, snaps would suffice in jpg while general excellent prints can be accomplished with fine quality jpg. I know many photographers selling their work and never use NEF! As stated in the earlier comments...read, read, read!
We're shooting commercially, and we always let clients choose. A growing proportion is asking for jpeg. Even in those cases, where colors are really critical (products) or lighting is challenging, we'll shoot both simultaneously on our D2X. Call the NEF "backup" to our jpeg files. Something to fall back on if straight jpeg shooting reveales problems. With large volume shooting you just don't want the extra hours of processing for shooting NEF on a jpeg job unless you are being paid extra. Even so, the NEF backup has saved our hinies a couple of times.
Shooting nature and speculative, we'll usually shoot NEF for our archives and flexibility in future applications.
CF cards are so "cheap" now compared to a couple of years ago, space isn't usually an issue, except for downloads and such. Beware of shooting fast enough to fill a camera buffer just as you reach the end of a card though. You're going to have to wait for the buffer to download completely before you can change cards, and that can hurt as action continues evolving. We stop short of completely filling cards, and in critical situations always carry spare bodies just in case we get "trapped" by a download.
Posted by Greg Barteluk on February 9, 2008 at 11:52 AM
Ryan;
There's simply no question that if you value image quality NEF/RAW is the answer. Any JPEG compression deletes data and reduces IQ. Period. Why buy a multi-MP camera with expensive glass and then junk much of the data with JPEGs? Further, with JPEG files image properties such as colour, contrast, and white point are set in-camera by algorithms, beyond the photographer's control. Don't be concerned about the larger size of RAW captures. Image data is priceless and irreplaceable, storage is cheap. The JPEG vs RAW debate really boils down to a choice between convenience and IQ and artistic control.
"The JPEG vs RAW debate really boils down to a choice between convenience and IQ and artistic control. "
And job specs.
Posted by Greg Barteluk on February 9, 2008 at 12:31 PM
I was being too pithy in using the word "convenience" without an explanation. Some customers (or friends) will prefer JPEGs so it is more convenient to shoot straight to JPEG, rather than converting down from RAW. Also, there are many, many people taking snaps that have absolutely no interest in photo editing. Hank has a nice solution if you have the camera for it, shoot both.
Posted by Rick Dunn on February 9, 2008 at 12:39 PM
I shoot both. Not sure which Nikon you have, but if you can shoot NEF+JPEG, give it a try. It takes up more memory, but memory is relatively cheap. I like the .jpg files as an easy way to efficiently scan a large library of images and have a close approximation of the potential an image holds. Once I zero in on an image that I want to work into a final product (web, prints, etc.), I work with the NEF.
NEF provides greater versatility for post-processing, but that processing can take a lot of time. Whether or not those are beneficial trade-offs comes down to your level of satisfaction with the JPEGs and your ability to create what you envision from either format.
Most likely your Nikon came with some RAW conversion software. I shoot Nikon and have never been a big fan of their capture software. I used CS2 and now use CS3, and both are very capable.
Discussion
13 repliesAnother newbie question. Do most of you use NEF or JPEG format? I have always used JPEG and don't know anything about NEF. What are the pros and cons? I understand you have to do some processing on the computer afterwards? Can you do this with Photoshop CS2? I'm shooting a nikon system if that makes any difference. Thank you for your help.
Ryan
For my own work I almost always shoot NEF uncompressed. It affords the best quality. If required it can be changed down to another format., but if you shoot in a lower quality you can't put it back.
Commercially you may have a client who might not need NEF quality and may wish to shoot in another format.
Dave
Scott
Understanding RAW at Luminous Landscape
Google searching or searching on here can really help with info like this...
What is your end result? Will they be for museum quality large prints? Or will they be for the internet? Or will they be for simple family or vacation snaps? This makes a difference in how much time you want to devote to the processing. Depending on the result, you may want some in NEF and the majority in JPG so the file sizes will be more manageable. You should really read up on the differences between the formats, the size difference, the processing differences, and the time difference you will spend processing in one format or the other. Also, you need to be real familiar with what your camera settings will be for both NEF and JPG. Alot of processing can happen in-camera - and some of them you are not going to want and some you will want depending if you are shooting for jpg or NEF. You are making a big step going to NEF especially as a newbie as stated. Some people will spend a LONG time getting their "snap" shot just right in post processing when a few simple "fixes" would have saved major time and the average viewer couldn't tell the difference. For myself, I enjoy spending time shooting images much more than post processing.
Once again, alot of this depends on what you intend the end result. Museum quality might need NEF, snaps would suffice in jpg while general excellent prints can be accomplished with fine quality jpg. I know many photographers selling their work and never use NEF! As stated in the earlier comments...read, read, read!
Troup
Shooting nature and speculative, we'll usually shoot NEF for our archives and flexibility in future applications.
CF cards are so "cheap" now compared to a couple of years ago, space isn't usually an issue, except for downloads and such. Beware of shooting fast enough to fill a camera buffer just as you reach the end of a card though. You're going to have to wait for the buffer to download completely before you can change cards, and that can hurt as action continues evolving. We stop short of completely filling cards, and in critical situations always carry spare bodies just in case we get "trapped" by a download.
There's simply no question that if you value image quality NEF/RAW is the answer. Any JPEG compression deletes data and reduces IQ. Period. Why buy a multi-MP camera with expensive glass and then junk much of the data with JPEGs? Further, with JPEG files image properties such as colour, contrast, and white point are set in-camera by algorithms, beyond the photographer's control. Don't be concerned about the larger size of RAW captures. Image data is priceless and irreplaceable, storage is cheap. The JPEG vs RAW debate really boils down to a choice between convenience and IQ and artistic control.
And job specs.
NEF provides greater versatility for post-processing, but that processing can take a lot of time. Whether or not those are beneficial trade-offs comes down to your level of satisfaction with the JPEGs and your ability to create what you envision from either format.
Most likely your Nikon came with some RAW conversion software. I shoot Nikon and have never been a big fan of their capture software. I used CS2 and now use CS3, and both are very capable.