While the Cokin Z would certainly work, they're awfully big. I use the P series on lenses up to 77mm filter size, including WA. If you use the standard P series holder (3-slot as I recall), you'll get some vignetting with the widest lenses, but that's not a problem for me. I don't stack filters as a rule, so I simply used a Dremel tool to cut away the outer filter holders.
I'm not acquainted with your particular lens, so it would be nice if someone who owns it could confirm my finding using Nikon lenses. But when you start buying those 4" filters, the bux mount in a hurry. I'm also a fan of Singh Ray filters which come in the P size, and I'm not sure if they're available in the 4" Z size, though Lee's are.
Posted by Brad Kargus on February 18, 2008 at 11:09 PM
Rob,
Here is what I can tell you from my experience with filters on the 17-40. Depending on the filters being used, the tricky area will probably occur from 17 - 20mm.
I have the wide angle version (one slot only) of the Cokin P holder and it works fine by itself meaning there are no other filters, including screw-in. If you put on a screw-in filter and then put the P holder on, you may notice some vignetting. At 17mm, it may be more than shading - the filter may even show up by blackening a very small area right at the corners. Filters for the P holder are not that much wider than the 17-40 and if you stack filters with the holder on top, you might see the sides of the filter in the shot and/or unfiltered light may sneak in from the sides.
I also have X-Pro holder. The filters for this are very large - even larger than the Z-Pro. I definitely never see the edges of the filter but vignetting is still possible. Just placing the holder on top of a screw-in polarizer means I need to go to 21mm or I will have the slight corner blackening. I do not mind this very much because I generally prefer 21mm to 17mm for many types of landscapes but there are times when the extra width is called for.
The Z-Pro holder or the Lee holder (that both take the same size filters - 4" wide) are probably the most versatile choice. I am not 100% sure but depending on filter thickness, you should be able to use 4" wide filters from Cokin, Lee or Singh Ray (yes they are available in 4" wide) in either of these holders.
I think Singh Ray will make custom sizes but I don't even want to know how much they would cost for the X-Pro holder. I have a couple of Singh Ray's for my P holder and after some colour issues I had while stacking Cokin filters in the X-Pro, I am thinking of picking up either the Z-Pro or Lee holder and getting some Singh Ray's to fit. The Cokin X-Pro filters are very good quality when I use them individually (they are MUCH better than the Cokin P filters) but I get a magenta colour cast when using 2 of them together.
Posted by Buck Ward on February 19, 2008 at 7:44 PM
I use P holder on my 17-40. Perhaps vignetting may occur with a full-frame camera but I've not seen vignetting at 17mm on my 1.6 and 1.3 cameras. If it does occur, you can simply remove two of the three filter slots, as Hank suggests. As photo gadgets go, a Cokin P holder is cheap.
This past weekend, I discovered that I had lost mine and was unable to get a shot that needed a GND. I made multiple exposures to try my hand at HDR but so far my results have been unsatisfactory. There simply are times when there's no PhotoShop substitute for a filter on the lens. Your post reminds me that I need to order a replacement Cokin P holder
Posted by Brad Kargus on February 20, 2008 at 2:25 AM
Thanks to Buck for bringing up full frame and 1.3/1.6 crop. What I said above applies to full frame. There should be more latitude for filter stacking on crop cameras.
Posted by Buck Ward on February 20, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Rob:
" what filters do you use the most ??
Color/ brand ?? "
I use Hi-Tech filters. 0.9 ND; 0.6 GND soft; 0.6 GND hard; 0.9 GND hard
I live in a flat land with water horizons - the hard edge GNDs work best for me. I use the soft edge GND the least. I have used the ND filter in combination with a GND, and I have used two GNDs, but I can't remember using three filters. I also have a polarizer that fits in the P holder, but I don't like it. I'd rather use a screw-on polarizer and mount the P holder on it.
I don't use any colored or special effect filters. For me, GNDs are a necessity. I often shoot before dawn, when the sky is much brighter than the ground. A white sand beach in deep shadow can look pretty dull. A GND lets me make it look more natural without blowing out the sky.
The Cokin P holder is a little fiddly and inconvenient, but it's the best way I know of to use GNDs The lens I use it on most often is my 17-40 f4L.
Posted by Carol Nichols on February 21, 2008 at 10:18 AM
This topic has been very interesting reading for me. I have a Canon 5D (full frame) along with 16-35mm II (82mm filter size) and 24-105mm (77 filter size) lenses. I want to get Singh Ray GND filters that will work with both of these lenses. I have been thinking I would need to buy their 4x6" filters and a Z-Pro filter holder. Would this be correct?
Posted by Buck Ward on February 21, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Carol
Cokin does make an 82mm adapter ring for its P holder, but I'm guessing that with a 16mm lens on a full-frame sensor, it would vignette. The 77mm adapters are pretty thin - I would think that the 82mm adapters would be very thin, possibly subject to bending.
I'd be inclined to get the larger filter system for the larger diameter lens. Perhaps the folks at Singh-Ray could advise you.
I know this is old but I thought I might chime in because I'm considering whether or not to supplement my Cokin-P sized filters with the larger Lee sized filters in order to have the flexibility of stacking filters and placing filters on non-level horizons. The responses so far have been helpful and maybe I may be able to add something useful for someone else:
Here's what I've found with my setup:
- Full-frame camera
- Cokin-P wide angle filter holder (one slot)
- Cokin-P 77mm ring
- Singh-Ray Cokin-P sized filters
I mostly use my filters at 17mm. The issues I deal with are
1) not being able to stack filters,
2) having to remove existing filters on the lens, e.g. a clear protection filter or a polarizer,
3) being very limited in positioning the gradient on a non-level horizon, and
4) the corners of the filter holder showing up from time to time even though it appears that my filter gradient is level with the horizon.
Re: 1) I've stacked filters once: I had one GND in the filter holder and another held over the *entire* lens in order to obtain a longer shutter speed. For those that have hand-held Cokin-P size filters on a wide-angle lens, you'll understand how easy it can be for your finger or the edge of the GND to show up in the viewfinder. I can see how the larger 4x6 filter sizes are easier to use for hand-holding filters.
Re: 2) Here's a photo that I took at 24mm with a slim Hoya Clear Protection Filter still on the lens. I decided to take one last photo before I left but I had already packed everything up. In my laziness, I screwed on the Cokin-P wide-angle filter holder over the protection filter and took the photo. I didn't crop the photo or introduce any additional vignetting but I did try and clone out the filter holder from the corners of the photo. I didn't remove it from the bottom left so you can get an idea of how much the single-slot filter holder shows up when it is mounted onto another screw-in filter: http://flickr.com/photos/photoofthewhenever/2166997433/in/set-72157603775365530/p/
Re: 3) & 4) If you look really, really closely at the upper corners of this photo you'll see that they are just a tiny bit dark-- http://flickr.com/photos/photoofthewhenever/2258017731/sizes/o/in/set-72157603775365530/. They aren't that dark because I made a lazy attempt to clone them out but this is an example of a photo where I tried to make sure that my gradient was level with the horizon and yet the corners show up.
Now that I think about it, I wonder if I'm mistaken. I tend to only notice those dark filter holder corners in the upper corners and not the lower ones. It may just be poor technique on my part :)
In any case, you can see that I feel like I'm pretty limited when positioning the filter at an angle. I have a better example of this on a different photo which I do not have with me.
Hope this helps. As for me, if I were to go with the 4x6 filters, I'd probably go with the Lee soft and hard sets at B&H. As much as I like my Singh-Ray filters, those 4x6 sizes are really expensive, especially the reverse GNDs which I like to use. The filter holder and the lens adapter are also much more expensive than their Cokin-P counterparts and larger. I've made paper cutouts of the sizes of the Singh-Ray Cokin-P and 4x6 filters for comparison and the latter are significantly larger (to me).
Discussion
12 repliesI'm not acquainted with your particular lens, so it would be nice if someone who owns it could confirm my finding using Nikon lenses. But when you start buying those 4" filters, the bux mount in a hurry. I'm also a fan of Singh Ray filters which come in the P size, and I'm not sure if they're available in the 4" Z size, though Lee's are.
Here is what I can tell you from my experience with filters on the 17-40. Depending on the filters being used, the tricky area will probably occur from 17 - 20mm.
I have the wide angle version (one slot only) of the Cokin P holder and it works fine by itself meaning there are no other filters, including screw-in. If you put on a screw-in filter and then put the P holder on, you may notice some vignetting. At 17mm, it may be more than shading - the filter may even show up by blackening a very small area right at the corners. Filters for the P holder are not that much wider than the 17-40 and if you stack filters with the holder on top, you might see the sides of the filter in the shot and/or unfiltered light may sneak in from the sides.
I also have X-Pro holder. The filters for this are very large - even larger than the Z-Pro. I definitely never see the edges of the filter but vignetting is still possible. Just placing the holder on top of a screw-in polarizer means I need to go to 21mm or I will have the slight corner blackening. I do not mind this very much because I generally prefer 21mm to 17mm for many types of landscapes but there are times when the extra width is called for.
The Z-Pro holder or the Lee holder (that both take the same size filters - 4" wide) are probably the most versatile choice. I am not 100% sure but depending on filter thickness, you should be able to use 4" wide filters from Cokin, Lee or Singh Ray (yes they are available in 4" wide) in either of these holders.
I think Singh Ray will make custom sizes but I don't even want to know how much they would cost for the X-Pro holder. I have a couple of Singh Ray's for my P holder and after some colour issues I had while stacking Cokin filters in the X-Pro, I am thinking of picking up either the Z-Pro or Lee holder and getting some Singh Ray's to fit. The Cokin X-Pro filters are very good quality when I use them individually (they are MUCH better than the Cokin P filters) but I get a magenta colour cast when using 2 of them together.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info !!!!!!!!!!!
This past weekend, I discovered that I had lost mine and was unable to get a shot that needed a GND. I made multiple exposures to try my hand at HDR but so far my results have been unsatisfactory. There simply are times when there's no PhotoShop substitute for a filter on the lens. Your post reminds me that I need to order a replacement Cokin P holder
what filters do you use the most ??
Color/ brand ??
Thanks Again-
RobK.
" what filters do you use the most ??
Color/ brand ?? "
I use Hi-Tech filters. 0.9 ND; 0.6 GND soft; 0.6 GND hard; 0.9 GND hard
I live in a flat land with water horizons - the hard edge GNDs work best for me. I use the soft edge GND the least. I have used the ND filter in combination with a GND, and I have used two GNDs, but I can't remember using three filters. I also have a polarizer that fits in the P holder, but I don't like it. I'd rather use a screw-on polarizer and mount the P holder on it.
I don't use any colored or special effect filters. For me, GNDs are a necessity. I often shoot before dawn, when the sky is much brighter than the ground. A white sand beach in deep shadow can look pretty dull. A GND lets me make it look more natural without blowing out the sky.
The Cokin P holder is a little fiddly and inconvenient, but it's the best way I know of to use GNDs The lens I use it on most often is my 17-40 f4L.
Thanks for your info . I was not think about mine being a 1.6 crop .
So i ordered a P. holder .
Thanks again guys !!!!!!!!!! :
Cokin does make an 82mm adapter ring for its P holder, but I'm guessing that with a 16mm lens on a full-frame sensor, it would vignette. The 77mm adapters are pretty thin - I would think that the 82mm adapters would be very thin, possibly subject to bending.
I'd be inclined to get the larger filter system for the larger diameter lens. Perhaps the folks at Singh-Ray could advise you.
Here's what I've found with my setup:
- Full-frame camera
- Cokin-P wide angle filter holder (one slot)
- Cokin-P 77mm ring
- Singh-Ray Cokin-P sized filters
I mostly use my filters at 17mm. The issues I deal with are
1) not being able to stack filters,
2) having to remove existing filters on the lens, e.g. a clear protection filter or a polarizer,
3) being very limited in positioning the gradient on a non-level horizon, and
4) the corners of the filter holder showing up from time to time even though it appears that my filter gradient is level with the horizon.
Re: 1) I've stacked filters once: I had one GND in the filter holder and another held over the *entire* lens in order to obtain a longer shutter speed. For those that have hand-held Cokin-P size filters on a wide-angle lens, you'll understand how easy it can be for your finger or the edge of the GND to show up in the viewfinder. I can see how the larger 4x6 filter sizes are easier to use for hand-holding filters.
Re: 2) Here's a photo that I took at 24mm with a slim Hoya Clear Protection Filter still on the lens. I decided to take one last photo before I left but I had already packed everything up. In my laziness, I screwed on the Cokin-P wide-angle filter holder over the protection filter and took the photo. I didn't crop the photo or introduce any additional vignetting but I did try and clone out the filter holder from the corners of the photo. I didn't remove it from the bottom left so you can get an idea of how much the single-slot filter holder shows up when it is mounted onto another screw-in filter: http://flickr.com/photos/photoofthewhenever/2166997433/in/set-72157603775365530/p/
Re: 3) & 4) If you look really, really closely at the upper corners of this photo you'll see that they are just a tiny bit dark-- http://flickr.com/photos/photoofthewhenever/2258017731/sizes/o/in/set-72157603775365530/. They aren't that dark because I made a lazy attempt to clone them out but this is an example of a photo where I tried to make sure that my gradient was level with the horizon and yet the corners show up.
Now that I think about it, I wonder if I'm mistaken. I tend to only notice those dark filter holder corners in the upper corners and not the lower ones. It may just be poor technique on my part :)
In any case, you can see that I feel like I'm pretty limited when positioning the filter at an angle. I have a better example of this on a different photo which I do not have with me.
Hope this helps. As for me, if I were to go with the 4x6 filters, I'd probably go with the Lee soft and hard sets at B&H. As much as I like my Singh-Ray filters, those 4x6 sizes are really expensive, especially the reverse GNDs which I like to use. The filter holder and the lens adapter are also much more expensive than their Cokin-P counterparts and larger. I've made paper cutouts of the sizes of the Singh-Ray Cokin-P and 4x6 filters for comparison and the latter are significantly larger (to me).