Posted by Les Barstow on February 20, 2008 at 12:14 AM
This isn't exactly a masterpiece - I'd never print it above 8x12" due to image quality issues - but I thought I'd share nonetheless.
"Bryce By Starlight" - Nikon D2X w/ Tokina 12-24mm, ISO 800, f/4, approx. 45sec.
Performed some NR, and sharpening to compensate for a pretty stiff wind.
Posted by John Klotz on February 20, 2008 at 1:16 AM
Nice comp Les!
John
Posted by Les Barstow on February 20, 2008 at 1:25 AM
Is the grain really as bad as it looks on my laptop? My CRT doesn't look nearly that ugly.
Posted by Kalin Wilson on February 20, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Nice comp and shot. Pretty good color for a night shot. I'm impressed that you didn't get longer star trails for that exposure.
I think it looks pretty good. There is still a little noise in the sky but its not overpowering.
Cool shot!
Posted by Don George on February 20, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Les, I noticed you took this image with a Tokina lens. How would you rate your Tokina against a Nikon or Canon lens. I shoot all Canon today but have been considering buying a Tokina lens, mainly due to its attractive price.
Posted by Guy Schmickle on February 20, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Very cool shot, Les. That was something I wanted to do when I was out there recently, but I never got a clear night. Don, I used to own that Tokina lens back when I had a 20d and would highly recommend it. It holds its own against the Canon ultrawide, that's for sure.
If I remember right I believe the general formula for choosing a shutter speed to avoid star trails is 600/focal length. So if you shot this at 18mm (with crop factor), then 33 sec would be the shutter speed to use. You would definitely be in the ball park anyway. Just out of curiousity, what focal length did you use for this?
Posted by Mel Ladewig on February 20, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Don,
I've got a Tokina pro lens. Specifically the discontinued 28-70 2.8 AT-X Pro SV. I'd say that it is roughly as good as my Canons in image quality and very similar in color and contrast. In the case of my lens, its sharper in the center than most of my Canons, softer towards the edges. Its better than some Canon lenses in build quality. Its a little slower than a USM lens in focusing. Switching to manual focus is a pain on my older 2-step lens, but in manual focus it feels better than any Canon EF lens. It feels like my old pentax M-42 lenses.
I chose the Canon 10-22 over the Tokina 12-24 ultimately because of weight (and partly for the extra 2mm at the wide end). The 10-22 is significantly lighter and I do try to keep my pack weight down as much as I can. I didn't hesitate on the 12-24 over concerns of image/build quality or ergonomics.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on February 20, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Les,
I really like this shot. Too bad the wind and noise conspired against you. Its a very cool night shot. But you've got a big smudge of dust on the middle right to clean up.
Mel-
Posted by Les Barstow on February 20, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Don, so far I've been fairly impressed by the Tokina. I've used the Nikon 12-24mm a few times in the past and the Tokina holds up very well in comparison.
My copy has two shortcomings compared to the Nikkor, both correctable via PhotoShop. First, it has a bit more CA than the Nikon, always visible so far as blue bleeding into darker areas; the stars in the above image showed it, though some shots I took two weeks ago of pine trees against a bright overcast sky did not. Second, it vignettes a bit at 12mm, but that vignetting is gone by 13mm.
Overall, the lens is sharp, has good color, contrast, and bokeh, and is built to last. The distortion on it is very minimal and easily corrected. The clutch AF/MF action is a bit strange, and I've had it accidentally in the wrong position once already, but it's not a problem as far as I'm concerned. If you buy it, keep a filter on it at all times; I purchased a thin UV filter for my other 77mm filter-size lens and haven't used it in 3 years; I immediately put it on the Tokina after almost banging into the lens three times in succession while putting on the lens cap!
Posted by Les Barstow on February 20, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Kalin and Guy, the star trails are short because the image was taken at 12mm so I could fit the Big Dipper into the shot! Using Guy's formula, that gives me about 50 seconds before the trails become a problem... If you pixel-peep the image, you can see the beginnings of some star trails, especially at the edge of the shot, but they're at least as acceptable as the blur of the hoodoos from the wind.
As far as color, I had two things in my favor: the 3/4 moon and the snow reflecting the moonlight back onto the scene. I bumped the red and yellow saturation a bit, but not more than I normally bump the overall saturation on daytime shots with the D2X. This was a bit of a "quick hit"; I'll likely play with this image some more, toning down the yellow just a little and doing a selective sharpening without the sky...
Mel - D'oh! Every time I think I've gotten rid of that speck, it creeps back into my camera... It was in a couple of my later images from the trip, but I missed it last night on this one...
Posted by Don George on February 20, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Thanks for the feedback.
Posted by Art Escobado on February 23, 2008 at 12:52 PM
good stuff and unique take-i haven't seen nite shots of the canyon before
Posted by Pam Colander on February 24, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Looks pretty grainy to me Les. The Tokina 12-24 is a great lens for the money on my 10D.
Pam
Posted by Les Barstow on February 26, 2008 at 3:51 AM
It was pretty grainy. I didn't sharpen selectively and wound up with a nasty-looking sky.
Even this cursory pass at a re-do is much better, IMHO. This is still only using PSCS3's noise reduction; it wouldn't be terribly hard to make the sky silky smooth while retaining the star field, but it's more time than I have to invest right now.
Thanks all for the comments!
Posted by Brent Murphy on February 26, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Glad to hear you like the 12-24. I bought this lens about a month ago based on the excellent reviews, but haven't had a chance to shoot much with it yet.
Discussion
14 replies"Bryce By Starlight" - Nikon D2X w/ Tokina 12-24mm, ISO 800, f/4, approx. 45sec.
Performed some NR, and sharpening to compensate for a pretty stiff wind.
John
I think it looks pretty good. There is still a little noise in the sky but its not overpowering.
Cool shot!
If I remember right I believe the general formula for choosing a shutter speed to avoid star trails is 600/focal length. So if you shot this at 18mm (with crop factor), then 33 sec would be the shutter speed to use. You would definitely be in the ball park anyway. Just out of curiousity, what focal length did you use for this?
I've got a Tokina pro lens. Specifically the discontinued 28-70 2.8 AT-X Pro SV. I'd say that it is roughly as good as my Canons in image quality and very similar in color and contrast. In the case of my lens, its sharper in the center than most of my Canons, softer towards the edges. Its better than some Canon lenses in build quality. Its a little slower than a USM lens in focusing. Switching to manual focus is a pain on my older 2-step lens, but in manual focus it feels better than any Canon EF lens. It feels like my old pentax M-42 lenses.
I chose the Canon 10-22 over the Tokina 12-24 ultimately because of weight (and partly for the extra 2mm at the wide end). The 10-22 is significantly lighter and I do try to keep my pack weight down as much as I can. I didn't hesitate on the 12-24 over concerns of image/build quality or ergonomics.
I really like this shot. Too bad the wind and noise conspired against you. Its a very cool night shot. But you've got a big smudge of dust on the middle right to clean up.
Mel-
My copy has two shortcomings compared to the Nikkor, both correctable via PhotoShop. First, it has a bit more CA than the Nikon, always visible so far as blue bleeding into darker areas; the stars in the above image showed it, though some shots I took two weeks ago of pine trees against a bright overcast sky did not. Second, it vignettes a bit at 12mm, but that vignetting is gone by 13mm.
Overall, the lens is sharp, has good color, contrast, and bokeh, and is built to last. The distortion on it is very minimal and easily corrected. The clutch AF/MF action is a bit strange, and I've had it accidentally in the wrong position once already, but it's not a problem as far as I'm concerned. If you buy it, keep a filter on it at all times; I purchased a thin UV filter for my other 77mm filter-size lens and haven't used it in 3 years; I immediately put it on the Tokina after almost banging into the lens three times in succession while putting on the lens cap!
As far as color, I had two things in my favor: the 3/4 moon and the snow reflecting the moonlight back onto the scene. I bumped the red and yellow saturation a bit, but not more than I normally bump the overall saturation on daytime shots with the D2X. This was a bit of a "quick hit"; I'll likely play with this image some more, toning down the yellow just a little and doing a selective sharpening without the sky...
Mel - D'oh! Every time I think I've gotten rid of that speck, it creeps back into my camera... It was in a couple of my later images from the trip, but I missed it last night on this one...
Pam
Even this cursory pass at a re-do is much better, IMHO. This is still only using PSCS3's noise reduction; it wouldn't be terribly hard to make the sky silky smooth while retaining the star field, but it's more time than I have to invest right now.
Thanks all for the comments!