I'm just starting out trying to sell my photos, and I'm coming up with marketing ideas, but I want to make sure I'm doing things right.
Do you need a release or permission if you are selling closeup pictures of exhibits at a plant show? Do you need permission for a picture of a garden or display? I guess I'm asking when you need a release, I saw an earlier post about barns and property, and that makes sense.
Someone suggested that one could go to a plant show and take pictures of the exhibits and then market them to the exhibitors, or market to the public. Is this ok to do or is it sleazy?
I hope my questions are not too silly, I just want to make sure I'm starting out right!
Thanks!
Those are very reasonable questions Rachel, and the answers are important. I've never looked into marketing pictures from a plant show, but my instinct is that if you're selling them to anyone other than the owner of the plant you'd need a property release except for editorial uses.
At the same time, speaking from experience in other venues, there may be some real money making potential in working with the sponsor of the plant show and setting up a "booth" for photos, just as we do for event photography such as at senior proms. We do it as a sponsored activity, with helpers provided by the sponsor, in exchange for which we donate 20% of sales back to the organization. We've done everything from dances at schools to pets with santa photos for the local animal shelter.
If you deal with a pro lab, they have event photography services, by which you take two photos of each person who buys in. There's a log sheet to help you keep track, and the lab selects the best of the two photos and prints up whatever combo of image sizes the person paid for, then ships it all back to you. At that point it's up to you to distribute.
Photo processing prices for event photography are surprisingly low. I haven't checked recently (my wife is our event photographer), but last time I recall seeing a wholesale price list it was around $2 a unit. A unit is one 8x10 or two 5x7's or four 4x5's or eight wallets. For simplicity you can put together "packages" the folks buy at the time of shooting. It might be one 8x10, four 4x5's and eight wallets (3 units), or two 5x7's and eight wallets (2 units), or whathever. We label them as Pachage A, Package B, Package C, Package D and Package E, escalating in numbers of units, and of course price. That really simplifies ordering and filling orders after you get the package back from the lab.
I've gone into so much detail because I can see real potential for you to cooperate with a show's sponsors and set up a "booth" with lights and do photo packages for participants who want to get professional quality photos of their plants. The first time or two you do it sales might be slow, but once the idea caught on you might do a very brisk business. We use a multiplier on unit cost (say 5x) to set our prices, so using arbitrary numbers if a 2-unit package costs us $4 (at the arbitrary $2/unit), we would sell it for $20. A 1-unit package would sell for $10 and a 3-unit package would sell for $30.
I don't want to get your hopes too high for immediate success, but "event" photography such as this can be really lucrative over the course of a year. Do half a dozen a year, and you could pay for a lot of camera gear or rent. Again, without getting too specific I can say that it's not uncommon for us to write checks larger than $600 for the 20% share to sponsoring organizations for a single evening or afternoon of work.
Posted by Toni Lankerd on March 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Rachel, I don't know about needing a release for pictures of plants taken at a show, but do know that if you sell them for stock, only pictures of plants that are rare need a release. However, you definitely need releases for gardens.
As a matter of course we have incorporated a release form on all our invoices. As a separate transaction from the sale, clients can sign or not sign the release. It works great for us in simplifying the record keeping, since the signed release is incorporated right into our tracking.
We're forthright in discussing how we would use the images and careful not to pressure clients into signing the release. But often, in fact very often, clients are pleased that we think their images are good enough for separate sales and readily agree to sign.
Rachel, there are a lot of resources out there, depending on the direction you what to go. If you live near enough to a large city, plan on spending a day or two in someplace like Border's or Barnes and Noble and go through every photography business book. Some basic (but very important!) questions like the need for releases, markets, how to market, etc., are well covered. Look at everything, even the books that cover topics you may not be interested in. This will also help to you to learn what you need to learn. You never know what odd piece of information is useful!
Get you hands on the Photographer's Market, 2008 edition, ISBN-13 number 978-1-58297-501-6.
The best place to start with marketing your work is to try to figure out what directions you want to go. Event photography is a great market, especially if you get outside of sports and galas. I'd never touch it, but that is because of my interests and what I am comfortable with. That is just me.
When I started to think about what I wanted to do, I decided on two avenues, prints at festivals/galleries/shows and stock. Here is why: locally, what I was seeing at shows was usually less than impressive. I felt like my work was a step above (and it didn't help that my friends were feeding my ego with "Dan, you should do this show - your stuff is better!" It is a lot of work, though, between setting up a show stock, applications, deciding how to present, sitting in 95 degree heat with no breeze... But overall, I enjoy it. I am still figuring out that market and what to show, even after three years.
Stock was a different question. I have had some luck with that, but it is a much harder market to figure out. Part of it too, for me, is that I don't often shoot "pretty" pictures. My main interest is macro, which often includes tight closeups of ugly bugs. Don't ask me for too much advice here. It is still very much guesswork for me.
In short, the big thing is to try to figure out what directions you want to pursue and go for it. Whatever you do, DON'T try to take on too many different projects in your first 1-3 years. Build a reputation for being able to deliver and then expand as time and capabilities allow.
Posted by Gary Crabbe on March 12, 2008 at 8:03 PM
I'm not a flower photographer, but I have heard that some species, especially those that are genetically engineered can be subject to a type of Intellectual Property restriction. If these are at a venue where you pay admission, it is always best to ask first. I think you'll be surprised that most exhibitors at many trade shows don't want their stuff photographed on site, and believe the root is to avoid any business espionage by competitors.
Discussion
6 repliesDo you need a release or permission if you are selling closeup pictures of exhibits at a plant show? Do you need permission for a picture of a garden or display? I guess I'm asking when you need a release, I saw an earlier post about barns and property, and that makes sense.
Someone suggested that one could go to a plant show and take pictures of the exhibits and then market them to the exhibitors, or market to the public. Is this ok to do or is it sleazy?
I hope my questions are not too silly, I just want to make sure I'm starting out right!
Thanks!
At the same time, speaking from experience in other venues, there may be some real money making potential in working with the sponsor of the plant show and setting up a "booth" for photos, just as we do for event photography such as at senior proms. We do it as a sponsored activity, with helpers provided by the sponsor, in exchange for which we donate 20% of sales back to the organization. We've done everything from dances at schools to pets with santa photos for the local animal shelter.
If you deal with a pro lab, they have event photography services, by which you take two photos of each person who buys in. There's a log sheet to help you keep track, and the lab selects the best of the two photos and prints up whatever combo of image sizes the person paid for, then ships it all back to you. At that point it's up to you to distribute.
Photo processing prices for event photography are surprisingly low. I haven't checked recently (my wife is our event photographer), but last time I recall seeing a wholesale price list it was around $2 a unit. A unit is one 8x10 or two 5x7's or four 4x5's or eight wallets. For simplicity you can put together "packages" the folks buy at the time of shooting. It might be one 8x10, four 4x5's and eight wallets (3 units), or two 5x7's and eight wallets (2 units), or whathever. We label them as Pachage A, Package B, Package C, Package D and Package E, escalating in numbers of units, and of course price. That really simplifies ordering and filling orders after you get the package back from the lab.
I've gone into so much detail because I can see real potential for you to cooperate with a show's sponsors and set up a "booth" with lights and do photo packages for participants who want to get professional quality photos of their plants. The first time or two you do it sales might be slow, but once the idea caught on you might do a very brisk business. We use a multiplier on unit cost (say 5x) to set our prices, so using arbitrary numbers if a 2-unit package costs us $4 (at the arbitrary $2/unit), we would sell it for $20. A 1-unit package would sell for $10 and a 3-unit package would sell for $30.
I don't want to get your hopes too high for immediate success, but "event" photography such as this can be really lucrative over the course of a year. Do half a dozen a year, and you could pay for a lot of camera gear or rent. Again, without getting too specific I can say that it's not uncommon for us to write checks larger than $600 for the 20% share to sponsoring organizations for a single evening or afternoon of work.
This forum is a great resource!
Rachel
As a matter of course we have incorporated a release form on all our invoices. As a separate transaction from the sale, clients can sign or not sign the release. It works great for us in simplifying the record keeping, since the signed release is incorporated right into our tracking.
We're forthright in discussing how we would use the images and careful not to pressure clients into signing the release. But often, in fact very often, clients are pleased that we think their images are good enough for separate sales and readily agree to sign.
Get you hands on the Photographer's Market, 2008 edition, ISBN-13 number 978-1-58297-501-6.
The best place to start with marketing your work is to try to figure out what directions you want to go. Event photography is a great market, especially if you get outside of sports and galas. I'd never touch it, but that is because of my interests and what I am comfortable with. That is just me.
When I started to think about what I wanted to do, I decided on two avenues, prints at festivals/galleries/shows and stock. Here is why: locally, what I was seeing at shows was usually less than impressive. I felt like my work was a step above (and it didn't help that my friends were feeding my ego with "Dan, you should do this show - your stuff is better!" It is a lot of work, though, between setting up a show stock, applications, deciding how to present, sitting in 95 degree heat with no breeze... But overall, I enjoy it. I am still figuring out that market and what to show, even after three years.
Stock was a different question. I have had some luck with that, but it is a much harder market to figure out. Part of it too, for me, is that I don't often shoot "pretty" pictures. My main interest is macro, which often includes tight closeups of ugly bugs. Don't ask me for too much advice here. It is still very much guesswork for me.
In short, the big thing is to try to figure out what directions you want to pursue and go for it. Whatever you do, DON'T try to take on too many different projects in your first 1-3 years. Build a reputation for being able to deliver and then expand as time and capabilities allow.