I got the chance to play around with some lighting this weekend at my friends pottery shop. Thanks to all of the suggestions from my last post, I (we) went into the project with very open minds. This was short turn around and being in the mountains of West Virginia we had very few material resources close at hand, so we made due with what we had or could get (4 utility lamps with clear plastic rubbermade type containers for defusers, aluminum foil, daylight balanced incandescent bulbs, broom sticks, assorted clamps, extension cords, 10ft step ladder, tape and a six pack of good beer). Not a portable setup to say the least - it looked like something from the Red Green Show, but hey....
I set my D70 to measure the WB and adjusted from that to get the right colors of the subject. We moved the lights around a bit to figure out what worked best for the subject and for the BG and ended on a setup with two above and two in front and to the sides all defused with the plastic. This is what I ended up with. We are going to try to refine the setup and I'd like to know what you think. With time we can build/buy more supplies, so I'm still looking for suggestions.
Oops just found out that I can't post a shot here.
I went looking Jay and couldn't find it. I'll check back later.
Gotta say I love your setup. My kind of problem solving. Without seeing the photo, I see one thing missing. A bed sheet. If you hang one from the top edge and position a light or two behind it, you end up with a giant softbox. The further back you move the light from the sheet, the more diffuse the light. The sheet also makes a dandy reflector opposite a single light.
If you start trying to beat those shadows on the shooting surface, you're going to go nuts unless you use a new surface. If you want a completely white surface to "float" the subject on a white background while retaining your interesting subject lighting, substitute a sheet of white plexiglass and put lights below it as well as in normal positions above the plex. A good rule of thumb for making the shadows or reflections disappear is 1.5X the intensity of the "ambient" light above. Another way to say it is that the light coming up through the plex should be overexposed about 1.5X above ambient. I say "about" because you need to adjust a little for dark or white subjects, as their reflections or shadows will have a little different appearance on the glass and require more or less light from below to neutralize them. Beware of getting too much light from below unless you actually want it to start appearing on the subject itself.
I've got some examples from scientific work here on my laptop. If I get the chance a little later I'll post one to the Off Topic gallery.
Okay, I posted the bottom lit example here at the off topic gallery. It's very flat light for shooting from above, but you could retain differential lighting as in your example by shooting from the side while lighting from both the sides and below. What you're going to be doing is building your own light table by laying a sheet of white plex across a couple of chairs or anything else high enough to allow you to light from below. Beware as you get the surface too high and a large subject. You could end up shooting from 8-10 feet high. We use either a Bogen Superclamp to mount a ball head clamped to the top of a stepladder or mount the ball head on the end of one of our heavy light booms, but you end up needing tall rooms to do it.
If you wanted to shoot from the side rather than above as in my example, you'll need a flexible light table arrangement. We have this one. That yellow thing at the top is actually a roll of "seamless" backdrop paper for use when you want an opaque background. Unless the subjects get too big you could get by with this one. Of course, by looking at the pics you could get creative and make your own for lots less.
Thanks for the ideas and links Hank - for a small version I can see the recarnation of an old chase lounge frame into one of these tables ! With some longer and stronger legs it may just work and it would have an adjustable back - the width may be too narrow though? I love the results of the whale fin bone shot - my biology background coming through ! This type of setup would be great for my skull and bone collection that I've found over the years as a biologist.
Jay - If you're interested in under lighting, DIY Photo has a couple of article : Part 1 and Part 2.
And somewhere on either DIY or Strobist is a good example of a shooting table, with a bracket to hold your surface/backdrop. I can't seem to find it right now, but basically it was a small table with some wood bolted to the front surface and a clamp held above the back end. Then a sheet of whatever you're using for base and BG was hung from the clamp and fell down then made a gentle curve along the table where it hit the front wood bracket. (I know, that description if probably tough to figure, but if you find examples it's pretty simple.)
And by the way - lovely shot of the pottery. I think maybe some brighter and even more diffuse lighting might improve it. I really like how you let the BG light fall off though.
Our table uses full 4'x8' sheets of plex, but as they break and chip (usually in storage), we can rig the smaller pieces for flat shooting smaller subjects, and thereby avoid handling the full sheets unless required. The hassle for you in using the chase lounge would be the fact that you would probably have to buy the full 4x8 sheets and cut them to size, encumbering a lot of waste in the process. The full sheets cost a bundle (over $300 plus shipping when I last bought several years ago), and then you have to figure out how to get them to you, a sincere challenge for us sitting on a rock in the Gulf of Alaska.
BTW- There are tricks to getting the flex into the sheets. Basically you want to clamp the leading edge plus another clamp on either side about a foot back. Then raise the back and add a few more clamps along the sides to get the bend you want. As a final step you add a single clamp at each top corner to keep it in place. The number of clamps along the sides of the flat and their proximity to the flex point is a matter of "feel" and you just might break a sheet or two learning the feel. Wonder how I know about that!!!!
It also helps if you have a cross brace under the plex on the flat just before you get to the joint in the table, and be sure to add a cross brace about 6" back from the top edge of the plex. These keep the plex from sagging in the middle as you raise the back, a sure source of breakage if you don't watch out.
If you're going to have to buy full sheets anyway, you'd probably be ahead of the game to simply build a table out of 2x4's and size it to fit a full sheet rather than using the chase lounge.
And I can verify that you'll have a ball shooting your bone and skull collection. I've done several of them in addition to the whale skeleton. Here's an important trick for you: Bones are impossible to position any way but flat on the slick plex. The solution is to buy some Playdo. White is best, because bits can get stuck in the bone and white shows up the least. Use wads of it to make braces and "skid pads" under your bones and out of sight of the camera.
Thanks David - that Strobist page is pretty cool I jumped on there several times last week. I'll see if I can find the shooting table design. All kinds of ideas are reeling through my head about designs. Thanks for the input about the lighting as well - I was just researching bulbs to boost the output.
Hank - I just got your last post - great stuff I really like the playdo idea. My thoughts brought me to the same idea about the size. I have a futon frame that I'm thinking about canabalizing now! - although I haven't told my wife yet We're remodeling the house too, so I have all kinds of 2x4's laying around if I end up making my own design - we won't miss a few. Thanks for the pointers on the design. By the way where can you get the white plex? I know what you mean about living on a rock - we used to live in Ketchikan.
Another "can you guess how Hank knows that" moment, Jay. You can find some pretty potent light bulbs out there, but make darned sure that your lighting units are rated for them. If you start smelling hot plastic (bakelite?), you've probably exceeded their limits and need to shut them off FAST.
One of the best fixed light setups we've found dispenses with the incandescent bulbs altogether. It's a cheap Smith Victor quartz halogen video lighting setup that we found used for $100, including light stands and barn doors. Finding one so cheap was a real score, but as long as heat isn't an issue, it really cranks out the light. Two of the lights are the equivalent of 1600 w/s and one is 800 w/s. White balance easily takes care of color issues. Back in the days of film we seldom used it due to the issues of heat and gels, but with WB adjustments in digital cameras we use them quite a bit now.
I order our plex sheets through our local glass shop. I could probably get it cheaper somewhere, but encumber a lot more shipping hassles. They're already set up for receiving shipments of glass, so it's easier for us, even if more expensive.
And if you lived in Ketch, I'm preaching to the choir about isolated locations!
Check out the 53" Seamless paper. It comes in 12 yard rolls and about 40 colors. In your location shipping shouldn't be too painful. We use teh 107" wide version as studio backdrops in certain colors, but the 53" is plenty to drape over the top of your shooting table for special color effects. It's absolutely textureless, nonreflective and blemish free right off the roll, so it can be a huge aid for product shots. When a section starts looking tattered, tear it off and unroll some more.
Discussion
14 repliesI set my D70 to measure the WB and adjusted from that to get the right colors of the subject. We moved the lights around a bit to figure out what worked best for the subject and for the BG and ended on a setup with two above and two in front and to the sides all defused with the plastic. This is what I ended up with. We are going to try to refine the setup and I'd like to know what you think. With time we can build/buy more supplies, so I'm still looking for suggestions.
Oops just found out that I can't post a shot here.
Thanks in advance for comments and advice.
Gotta say I love your setup. My kind of problem solving. Without seeing the photo, I see one thing missing. A bed sheet. If you hang one from the top edge and position a light or two behind it, you end up with a giant softbox. The further back you move the light from the sheet, the more diffuse the light. The sheet also makes a dandy reflector opposite a single light.
Did you find the shot?
If you start trying to beat those shadows on the shooting surface, you're going to go nuts unless you use a new surface. If you want a completely white surface to "float" the subject on a white background while retaining your interesting subject lighting, substitute a sheet of white plexiglass and put lights below it as well as in normal positions above the plex. A good rule of thumb for making the shadows or reflections disappear is 1.5X the intensity of the "ambient" light above. Another way to say it is that the light coming up through the plex should be overexposed about 1.5X above ambient. I say "about" because you need to adjust a little for dark or white subjects, as their reflections or shadows will have a little different appearance on the glass and require more or less light from below to neutralize them. Beware of getting too much light from below unless you actually want it to start appearing on the subject itself.
I've got some examples from scientific work here on my laptop. If I get the chance a little later I'll post one to the Off Topic gallery.
If you wanted to shoot from the side rather than above as in my example, you'll need a flexible light table arrangement. We have this one. That yellow thing at the top is actually a roll of "seamless" backdrop paper for use when you want an opaque background. Unless the subjects get too big you could get by with this one. Of course, by looking at the pics you could get creative and make your own for lots less.
And somewhere on either DIY or Strobist is a good example of a shooting table, with a bracket to hold your surface/backdrop. I can't seem to find it right now, but basically it was a small table with some wood bolted to the front surface and a clamp held above the back end. Then a sheet of whatever you're using for base and BG was hung from the clamp and fell down then made a gentle curve along the table where it hit the front wood bracket. (I know, that description if probably tough to figure, but if you find examples it's pretty simple.)
And by the way - lovely shot of the pottery. I think maybe some brighter and even more diffuse lighting might improve it. I really like how you let the BG light fall off though.
Our table uses full 4'x8' sheets of plex, but as they break and chip (usually in storage), we can rig the smaller pieces for flat shooting smaller subjects, and thereby avoid handling the full sheets unless required. The hassle for you in using the chase lounge would be the fact that you would probably have to buy the full 4x8 sheets and cut them to size, encumbering a lot of waste in the process. The full sheets cost a bundle (over $300 plus shipping when I last bought several years ago), and then you have to figure out how to get them to you, a sincere challenge for us sitting on a rock in the Gulf of Alaska.
BTW- There are tricks to getting the flex into the sheets. Basically you want to clamp the leading edge plus another clamp on either side about a foot back. Then raise the back and add a few more clamps along the sides to get the bend you want. As a final step you add a single clamp at each top corner to keep it in place. The number of clamps along the sides of the flat and their proximity to the flex point is a matter of "feel" and you just might break a sheet or two learning the feel. Wonder how I know about that!!!!
It also helps if you have a cross brace under the plex on the flat just before you get to the joint in the table, and be sure to add a cross brace about 6" back from the top edge of the plex. These keep the plex from sagging in the middle as you raise the back, a sure source of breakage if you don't watch out.
If you're going to have to buy full sheets anyway, you'd probably be ahead of the game to simply build a table out of 2x4's and size it to fit a full sheet rather than using the chase lounge.
And I can verify that you'll have a ball shooting your bone and skull collection. I've done several of them in addition to the whale skeleton. Here's an important trick for you: Bones are impossible to position any way but flat on the slick plex. The solution is to buy some Playdo. White is best, because bits can get stuck in the bone and white shows up the least. Use wads of it to make braces and "skid pads" under your bones and out of sight of the camera.
Thanks again for all of the ideas.
One of the best fixed light setups we've found dispenses with the incandescent bulbs altogether. It's a cheap Smith Victor quartz halogen video lighting setup that we found used for $100, including light stands and barn doors. Finding one so cheap was a real score, but as long as heat isn't an issue, it really cranks out the light. Two of the lights are the equivalent of 1600 w/s and one is 800 w/s. White balance easily takes care of color issues. Back in the days of film we seldom used it due to the issues of heat and gels, but with WB adjustments in digital cameras we use them quite a bit now.
And if you lived in Ketch, I'm preaching to the choir about isolated locations!
Check out the 53" Seamless paper. It comes in 12 yard rolls and about 40 colors. In your location shipping shouldn't be too painful. We use teh 107" wide version as studio backdrops in certain colors, but the 53" is plenty to drape over the top of your shooting table for special color effects. It's absolutely textureless, nonreflective and blemish free right off the roll, so it can be a huge aid for product shots. When a section starts looking tattered, tear it off and unroll some more.