Posted by Derek Sedillo on March 12, 2008 at 1:31 AM
What I am referring to is access to many great photo locations such as those in the Cascades. Obviously I know they are not necessary for city driving, or the coast hwys, etc... But what about when you head into the Mtns such as Jefferson, Rainier, Shuksan, Baker, etc...?
Here in Colorado for example if you really want to explore many places like the San Juans there are a lot of roads which are 4x4 only! I don't have one yet. But I am considering purchasing one. If we ever move to the PNW I am wondering if it would really be as necssary?
I will want to photograph mtn. as well as coastal scenics.
Thanks,
- Derek
Posted by Tom Kloster on March 12, 2008 at 2:23 AM
I would say yes. In Oregon and Washington, much of the old trail system of the 1920s has been truncated by a maze of logging roads, so there are a lot of trailheads where the last 10-15 miles are on rough, washboardy roads. There are also a few trailheads located on "primitive" roads -- like the Breitenbush entrance to the Mount Jefferson Wilderness -- that weren't built for logging trucks, and are much rougher to drive. A good pick is a mid-sized SUV with all-wheel drive that is comfortable on the highway, but able to handle the bad roads. No need for a stripped-down 4x4 that is useless in the city.
I dunno nearly as much about Oregon, but I've only ever been on 3 roads that I wouldn't have been able to take my own car down, one of which (Middle Fork Snoqualmie) has since been cleaned up / closed to the point where I could drive it in my car. There are some, but my impression is that Colorado is much worse off in terms of road condition than we are in the NW. You're dealing with more trail than road in most of the best places.
Posted by Marc Dilley on March 12, 2008 at 9:58 AM
All wheel drive passenger cars like Subarus will get you most anywhere where I live in Chelan County, east of the Cascades where there is snow on the ground most of the winter: (1) for general winter travel and, (2) for gravel/rough Forest Service, DNR and Fish & Game roads, which are so very prevalent in the eastern foothills and Sagebrush/Steppe country. True truck-based 4X4's, like the SUV's and trucks, are needed if you are planning to forge ahead into the really rough off-road vehicle terrain. Personally, even though I own a 4X4 truck (and a Subaru), when things get like that, I park it, let the dog out, and walk.
If you head east of the Cascades, many if not most of the trailheads you would get to in the summer months can be conveniently accessed with an AWD passenger car, although a bread & butter sedan will get almost anywhere. I have seen BMW's at some of the roughest trailheads.
Hope that helps.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on March 12, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Thanks guys,
It does sound a lot different than here in Colorado. Byran you are right about 4x4 trails. They are everywhere throughout the Rockies. One of my favorite places to photograph in Colorado are the San Juans. We have wildflower wonderlands in the summer to places like American Basin, Yankee Boy Basin, Crested Butte, and the list goes on and on. And most destinations are too far to simply get out and walk to. So you either 4x4 in or just don't go. Crested Butte roads are doable with a car in some parts. And you can get into RMNP without a 4x4. So visitors can still see much of the state. But if you really want to explore it is tough without it.
I agree with my fellow PNW fotogs. We own two 4x4 vehicles. A Dodge Dakota and a Jeep Liberty. Both have been accessorised to go almost anywhere we want to go in the 4 state area. Many roads don't really require 4x4 but it sure is nice to have it anyway.
I have friends who are in King County Search and Rescue and they tell me the single biggest mistake people make with their 4x4 vehicles is they FAIL to put the dang thing in 4 High or 4 Low and get stuck and never even attempt to use the dang second set of traction wheels!!! So the lesson is put it in 4 High BEFORE it gets gnarly!!! It's also good to put your 4x4 into 4 High every once in awhile just to keep the transfer case well lubricated.... But NEVER do so on dry pavement!
Posted by Curtis Knight on March 12, 2008 at 12:39 PM
For the durability factor alone, I would by a 4x4, or at least a 2WD pickup/SUV. I know a lot of people who just can't give up their sedans and they tear them apart on the logging roads around here. Yes, you can get around, but a 4x4 or a tough 2WD is a very wise purchase if you're going to be exploring the mountains in PNW. If you really want a 2wd, a locking (limited slip) rear end, is a good upgrade.
Another thing to consider: A 4WD, if used as intended, will actually do less damage to the road/landscape than a 2WD. Driving a 4x4 carefully, means a lot less tire spin, which equals less damage to the road, less damage to the rig, and less damage to the tires. High-quality aggressive-tread tires also help prevent spin out.
My rig has 4WD and a locking rear end, so when I'm in 4wd, I've got power to three wheels all the time. I keep it in 4wd most of the time when I'm on gravel. Since I'm under 40mp 90% of the time, I don't really take a hit on gas mileage.
Like Rick said, don't forget to put it back into 2wd when you hit the pavement!
Both of our family vehicles are 4WD . . . Acura MDX (AWD) and Ford F-250 . . . the Acura won't haul the horses . . .
In my experience, you don't need 4WD until you need it for real . . . and if you don't have it at that point, it's too late. If you are adventurous in terms of where you go, there are going to be times when you will need the extra traction that 4WD (or a tow truck) will give you. Out here in the PNW there are a lot of places where your cell phone won't work, so consider the 4WD capability to be insurance, and spring the extra bucks to have it.
If you like going beyond the end of the pavement, there may come a time when being able to use those two extra wheels could even save your life.
Some folks are overlooking the importance of high ground clearance and a chainsaw, but for mud and snow 4wd is good. So is a winch. I think you are going to find that more of the Forest roads are paved on the West slope than you expect which is a concession to the weather. Many of the popular SUV's have no more space between the differential and the ground than a sedan.
Posted by Adrian Klein on March 12, 2008 at 8:22 PM
I think the roads are few that you really need a 4x4 in NW, yet it ultimately is where you will go that will decide what you need. If you want to frequent the few rough roads we have here in the NW then you will need a good 4x4. I find my Suby gets me most places that I want to go and is less gas than a 6 or 8 cyl 4x4 SUV or truck!
Two more points: One is tires. The tires that come as stock on many SUV's tend to pop like balloons on rock roads and usually have to be replaced which can get expensive.
The second point is dirt roads: These amount to two ruts that often fill with water and erode into miniature canyons. These ruts are formed by loggers driving full sized pick-ups. With a smaller vehicle you snag your under-carriage a lot and constantly alternate between one rut or the other depending on which looks more promising.
However, most of the bad roads I know about in my area dead-end in some clearcut anyway.
or something like that. i worked on all kinds of logging roads for 6 years as a biologist, olympic peninsula, olympic national forest, gifford-pinchot national forest from ranier to mt adams, willamette nf, mt hood nf, siuslaw nf, blm eastern oregon, state forests all over western washington and private timberland in sw washington. there are hundreds of miles paved logging roads between waldport and lincoln city believe it or not.
since we were contractors on a budget, most of the time there was some poor bloke who had to bring his passenger car up into the hills and in almost all cases this was possible. i've even had my honda civic many miles off the mainline in sw washington. high ground clearance is important, 4 wheel not so much. subaru outbacks have more clearance than most passenger suv's
remember we have the highest road density in our timberlands of any other parts of the country if you want to get off the beaten path, you have to do it on foot.
Anywhere you can't go with a regular RWD vehicle you probably don't belong. But hey, I guess all the extra moving parts are good for the economy, and they're also good for assuring a huge towing bill when you do manage to get stuck.
Discussion
12 repliesHere in Colorado for example if you really want to explore many places like the San Juans there are a lot of roads which are 4x4 only! I don't have one yet. But I am considering purchasing one. If we ever move to the PNW I am wondering if it would really be as necssary?
I will want to photograph mtn. as well as coastal scenics.
Thanks,
- Derek
Tom
If you head east of the Cascades, many if not most of the trailheads you would get to in the summer months can be conveniently accessed with an AWD passenger car, although a bread & butter sedan will get almost anywhere. I have seen BMW's at some of the roughest trailheads.
Hope that helps.
It does sound a lot different than here in Colorado. Byran you are right about 4x4 trails. They are everywhere throughout the Rockies. One of my favorite places to photograph in Colorado are the San Juans. We have wildflower wonderlands in the summer to places like American Basin, Yankee Boy Basin, Crested Butte, and the list goes on and on. And most destinations are too far to simply get out and walk to. So you either 4x4 in or just don't go. Crested Butte roads are doable with a car in some parts. And you can get into RMNP without a 4x4. So visitors can still see much of the state. But if you really want to explore it is tough without it.
I have friends who are in King County Search and Rescue and they tell me the single biggest mistake people make with their 4x4 vehicles is they FAIL to put the dang thing in 4 High or 4 Low and get stuck and never even attempt to use the dang second set of traction wheels!!! So the lesson is put it in 4 High BEFORE it gets gnarly!!! It's also good to put your 4x4 into 4 High every once in awhile just to keep the transfer case well lubricated.... But NEVER do so on dry pavement!
Another thing to consider: A 4WD, if used as intended, will actually do less damage to the road/landscape than a 2WD. Driving a 4x4 carefully, means a lot less tire spin, which equals less damage to the road, less damage to the rig, and less damage to the tires. High-quality aggressive-tread tires also help prevent spin out.
My rig has 4WD and a locking rear end, so when I'm in 4wd, I've got power to three wheels all the time. I keep it in 4wd most of the time when I'm on gravel. Since I'm under 40mp 90% of the time, I don't really take a hit on gas mileage.
Like Rick said, don't forget to put it back into 2wd when you hit the pavement!
In my experience, you don't need 4WD until you need it for real . . . and if you don't have it at that point, it's too late. If you are adventurous in terms of where you go, there are going to be times when you will need the extra traction that 4WD (or a tow truck) will give you. Out here in the PNW there are a lot of places where your cell phone won't work, so consider the 4WD capability to be insurance, and spring the extra bucks to have it.
If you like going beyond the end of the pavement, there may come a time when being able to use those two extra wheels could even save your life.
The second point is dirt roads: These amount to two ruts that often fill with water and erode into miniature canyons. These ruts are formed by loggers driving full sized pick-ups. With a smaller vehicle you snag your under-carriage a lot and constantly alternate between one rut or the other depending on which looks more promising.
However, most of the bad roads I know about in my area dead-end in some clearcut anyway.
or something like that. i worked on all kinds of logging roads for 6 years as a biologist, olympic peninsula, olympic national forest, gifford-pinchot national forest from ranier to mt adams, willamette nf, mt hood nf, siuslaw nf, blm eastern oregon, state forests all over western washington and private timberland in sw washington. there are hundreds of miles paved logging roads between waldport and lincoln city believe it or not.
since we were contractors on a budget, most of the time there was some poor bloke who had to bring his passenger car up into the hills and in almost all cases this was possible. i've even had my honda civic many miles off the mainline in sw washington. high ground clearance is important, 4 wheel not so much. subaru outbacks have more clearance than most passenger suv's
remember we have the highest road density in our timberlands of any other parts of the country if you want to get off the beaten path, you have to do it on foot.