Colorspace question

Without getting into a huge debate about colorspace, I was wondering what people use. I noticed that some stock companies only accept images in Adobe RGB as they say it prints better. Others say there is no appreciable difference and Adobe RGB won't look as good on the web.
Do people use Adobe RGB for printing and SRGB for posting on the web? Thanks in advance.

Your question could lead into several different discussions. I've seen it hotly debated.

I use sRGB for my web conversions. I think they look better. I think saving for the web from Adobe RGB or ProPhoto makes things a little dull.

I've found that Adobe RGB gives me the best match from monitor to print on my Epson 3800. I've used ProPhoto as well, which produces great results, but to my eye, I see a better match and have more confidence in what I'm going to get with Adobe RGB.

I believe that Lightroom uses ProPhoto as its native colorspace, and if I ever make that purchase that might change things, however that's what I do for now and I'm quite happy with it. In conjunction with a calibrated monitor you wouldn't go wrong with Adobe RGB. I wouldn't try printing from sRGB, it's too narrow, in my opinion.

I will keep my response simple here.

Lab Prints = Do what they recommend for the best print. Often it can be either or may need to be sRGB

Home Printing = Adobe RGB

Web = Always sRGB

Thanks Ryan and Adrian. So am I correct in assuming that you open your image in the RAW converter and if you intend to post the image on the web you will leave it as sRGB but if you intend to print it, you will convert it to Adobe RGB and then post process? If you have a killer image that you intend to print and put on the web, is it necessary to post process two seperate images, one in sRGB and one in Adobe RGB?
If, for example, you have images for sale on a website, do you have two files for the images? One in sRGB for display on the web and one in Adobe RGB for print? If so, how do you ensure that they are the same?

I usually work about the same as everyone else, something like this:

Lightroom straight to web = Export in sRGB
Lightroom to CS3 to web = LR to PS = ProPhoto, edit, convert to sRGB, save
Home Printing = all done in LR, no color spaces used unless previously edited in PS, in which case ProPhoto is used
Lab Printing = so far sRGB almost always, but I've done a few with Adobe

I use BetaRGB...about the best color space as you dont want a color space container TOO large, and you dont want one that is too small....its a Goldilocks kinda thing...you want one that is just right.

http://brucelindbloom.com/index.html?BetaRGB.html

My work flow is to convert the NEF (or any RAW file) to that color space and keep it there till need to change it as needed. My local printing company works with me so I sent them that color space and they print my files from Photoshop and let it do the conversion work during printing.

Pretty straight forward.

Roman

Larry, you don't need to do two seperate conversions from RAW to get an image for print and one for the web. I do my RAW work with the intent to print. After I do my RAW edits I send it to CS3 in Adobe RGB. I'll do any final tweaking there, if necessary. If it's something I'm going to put on my web page, I'll size it for the web, convert to sRGB and then save it as a jpg. Since I put a little mat & frame around my shots that are on my web page, I have the sRGB conversion built into my mat & frame macro.

Jesse, sRGB is what web browsers understand and can render, which is why that's preferred for web. They don't understand Adobe RGB, so while the browser will still display it, you don't know what color quirks that other people are seeing in their browser when you upload. Hence, Web = sRGB, no option.

sRGB will also work for printing, but your home inkjet printer can easily handle the wider array (gamut) of colors that Adobe RGB gives you over sRGB, so why not utilize that?

One caveat: check with labs when printing outside the home, they may demand sRGB. It'll still work if you send Adobe RGB, but will appear dull.

Tim Grey's Color Confidence 2 book is SUPERB in explaining all this. I'm now totally happy with the web and print versions I get after reading it. It all makes sense now.

Paul

The choice of color space one uses is VERY personal!! More so MUCH more so than your choice of Canon vs Nikon vs the rest. Folks will go to war over this choice and the arguments for their choice can be endless!! Danger Will Robin!!

It seems I follow the same basic pattern as others. I am a HEAVY user of Adobe Photoshop Lightroom. I use ProPhoto as my default color space in Lightroom but please DO understand that AdobeRGB can also be set as the default in Lightroom.

When I intend to post something to the web I export a JPEG into sRGB and bring that into Adobe Photoshop CS3 for a quick sharpening then it goes out to my web server.

When I intend to print I export to *.PSD keeping the ProPhoto colorspace. I do any tonal adjustments that couldn't be successfully done in Lightroom (Lightroom with all its "magic" still can't do everything Photoshop CS3 can...) do my sharpening for the print size and then bring it BACK into Lightroom for printing since I LOVE the print module in Lightroom.

The master RAW file in Lightroom is ALWAYS in ProPhoto colorspace. But even that is a technical misnomer since Lightroom is merely a database of changes to an image. NEVER does it actually "touch" the image file itself. Lightroom is non-destructive.

Can ya tell I'm a Lightroom addict?!

Pro Photo RGB. There is no printer or monitor that can even display the full color gamut of pro photo yet, but I'm planning ahead. Obviously I convert to sRGB when posting anything on the web.

From Canon RAW via Bridge I open the images as 16-Bit Pro Photo RGB images. I'll edit, add layers, basically finalize the image. I then SAVE that version as a .PSD to my hard drive. I then flatten, apply sharpening via Fred Miranda's CS Pro sharpening scripts and SAVE that version with a "F" at the end of the file name. This is the version I would take somewhere to print. I keep the original .PSD since it has things still in layers if I need to modify things if something isn't right.

I have an action "Web Image" that resizes the image to 1400 pixels and applies Shapening 2 times (this is the Marc Adamus technique that is shared in the tips part of this forum) - then I have a fade of that last sharpnening pass and I've made this user-input open so I can add more or less sharpening by percentage of that 2nd sharpening. I then have a resize image command that is also user input since this site requires smaller versions of images than the usual size I share at other photography forums. Finally it coverts to 8-bit and converts color space to sRGB before saving as a .jpeg (I don't use "Save for Web" since it strips EXIF data from the image - this way Flickr can show EXIF data on my images).

Hope this helps.....

not only am I a photographer I also work at a lab, and I can tell you that our Noritsu photo printer runs in sRGB , and files sent to it in AbobeRGB will print wrong. However, AboeRGB is a wider color space, and so I like to shoot in it in case I want to print big on our 44" Epson....
The only problem comes when I forget to convert the profile for printing 4x6 thru 11x14's - say, for a wedding. Not that that has happened to me, not like it happened last week and i had to reprint them all or anything!!

My experience has been that unless you know a colorspace well enough to know what your monitor is not showing you, sRGB is the most reliable and quite adequate for most photos.

Thanks everyone, I believe I have a better understanding of the process now. I appreciate the detailed workflow explanations.

It's not a personal choice, it's science.

Adobe RGB/Pro Photo for capture
Adobe RGB/Beta RGB for print
sRGB for web/digital dispaly

Always capture the image in it's largest colorspace adobeRGB/Pro Photo and archive it. Once you compress colors to a smaller space, you cannot go back.

larger color space doesn't always give better results guys.

think of it this way if you have a huge color space but limited gamut with your printer (or on the web), how is your printer going to handle the colors that are out of gamut ? using a large color space can actually in rare cases cause posterization. using a smaller color space will have smaller gradations between each color.
this is all just academic talk though because i use the same as most people recommend. you just have to be careful in all accounts anyway.