I'm having a devil of a time exposing birds like magpies, coots and RWBB's properly and getting even decent detail - not a new problem I know and maybe it's already been beat to death but I'm a babe in the woods when it comes to dealing with the issue. I'm wondering three things:
Are there "usual" camera settings for these birds that tend to improve results?
Are there environmental conditions that are more conducive to proper exposure of these birds? In other words, what kind of light? Is a darker background best so exp comp doesn't blow it out?
Any twists in tactics to use when the bird also has bright whites, yellows or reds that you don't want to blow?
Any hints or strategies that some of you may use and would be willing to share would certainly be appreciated.
Thanks.
Posted by David Bostedo on March 12, 2008 at 10:23 PM
Ron - I'm certainly not a great bird shooter, but I've had some decent luck with RWBBs.
First, you shouldn't need to worry about the BG to avoid blowing out (assuming that the scene isn't too high contrast). Instead, you should probably be using exposure compensation (usually in Av mode for DOF control). Whether or not the scene blows out will also depend on your metering. If you're spot metering on the bird, you'll probably need to dial in -1 or so compensation. This is because a spot meter on the bird will attempt to make it look middle gray, so it will overexpose.
If you're matrix or scene metering, it depends on the BG. The meter will try to make the whole scene middle gray. So if you have a bright scene, you may need plus compensation. I tend to use spot metering, since with bird photos, I care more about the subject than anything else. For more environmental shots, or multi-colored/moving birds, other metering modes may be better, but you need to have an idea of the brightness of the overall scene for compensation.
I've also found that low angle light or flat light will show more of the feather detail.
And of course, always check the histogram and the "blinkies". If your camera has an RGB histogram, you can check these channels as well. If the bird has both bright whites and dark blacks and the light is overly bright, you may not be able to expose for both perfectly. It may be that you need to split the difference.
I'm sure others may have better technique and more experience - I'm curious to hear them as well...
Posted by Lance Warley on March 13, 2008 at 10:07 AM
I go for black birds - RWBB's, Grackles, Anhingas (mostly black) in AV wide open with EV +1 or +2 to bring out the details in the blacks.
Thank you Al Forns for this tip. You can see some results on my site if you wish. I have a RWBB and a Grackle in the Most Recent gallery.
I hope this helps :)
(Sorry for the edits...i kept thinking of one more thing, Ron)
Posted by Steve Foss on March 13, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Ron, if it's even lighting, either cloudy or sunny, I photograph in manual exposure mode and take some quick images so I can study the histogram and make adjustments based on what it tells me before I settle down to capture some keepers. Then, as long as the lighting is consistent, I don't need to sweat what my exposure settings are, nor do I need to worry about changing backgrounds throwing off the metering. I do occasionally check the histogram as I continue to work in case there have been subtle changes in lighting I hadn't noticed.
I use Av and evaluative in-camera metering widely when I'm walking into a situation with changing lighting (like partly cloudy skies or shifts in sun/shade), and then I use exposure compensation as needed. But if the light's steady, manual is the way to go. Using one of the in-camera metering systems will always present some limitations, and the big drawback of metering modes and EC is that once the bird changes position or hops to another perch, the BG may be very different and then you've got to adjust EC to compensate for the changes made to the metering by the BG. This is especially evident during bird-in-flight work but also applies to perched birds. The more time you spend jacking around with EC, the more shots you're going to miss.
Using manual exposure mode takes some getting used to, and as stated it isn't the best option under all conditions, but when you get used to it in conjunction with the histogram you'll love your exposures.
In the case of a black/white bird in the sun, as stated you can't make an exposure perfect for blacks and whites combined. Using the histogram (and regardless of whether I'm in manual exposure mode or using in-camera metering and Av/EC,) I expose so that the brightest highlights in the whites are just barely blinking. This assures me I'll have the lightest blacks with the most detail possible, and if only small portions of the highlights are blinking I'll easily be able to recover them in CS2 using either the RAW preview screen or shadows/highlights.
this subject has plagued me as of late. I feel like adding light (+1 or 2 stops) doesn't always look natural in terms of a birds plumage. On cloudy days, if the bird is against a grey sky, it seems there is just no way of not completely blowing out the backround. Sometimes I like the effect, sometimes not. In the sun, the irredescence and shininess of some species plumage will completely overexpose when the rest of the bird is perfect exposure wise.
I think you know, I'm really into ravens. While there are ravens all over southern Oregon, I havent't found any in the immediate area that aren't extremely wary of humans. About 100 miles west of here, Crescent City CA there are a bunch of ravens that are somewhat "tame" so I've been paying them visits. The trouble is that I haven't gotten there for the sweet, low morning sun because of the distance. What I'm getting at is I think like usual, great low light is maybe the key.
Good topic you posted here.
Hi Dan: I too love ravens and live in raven country. I've had some luck with them using the techniques I mentioned, and in particular using the histogram and overexposing enough to just bump the reflective feather highlights into the "blinky' category. Also, with the blacks somewhat overexposed it definitely looks false on capture but allows more latitude in post processing, with more detail and less noise evident after working the blacks toward their normal look using levels/curves.
Great thread! Thanks for posting and for all the great info. Just my two cents, not nearly as well thought out as above respondents, but I do pretty okay using the spot meter, manual exposure method. The other thing I've done is to meter on an area of green or other "18% grey" color, and then as long as the light on the subject stays the same, I'm good to go… well, mostly.
Posted by Nate Chappell on March 15, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Hi Ron, you've got some good input here already. I use evaluative metering in Av mode most of the time and I find that depending on the bg I will have to add positive exposure compensation, the brighter the bg and the smaller the bird in the frame the more I have to add. This can lead to the bg being brighter than I would have liked. Another way to deal with this where you won't have to brighten the bg is to use fill flash. Fill flash can do an excellent job of adding detail to a dark bird and then you don't have to add any positive exposure compensation. A better beamer will help get the flash to the bird if the bird is not close to you and is almost a necessity when using flash and a large lens.
Discussion
8 repliesAre there "usual" camera settings for these birds that tend to improve results?
Are there environmental conditions that are more conducive to proper exposure of these birds? In other words, what kind of light? Is a darker background best so exp comp doesn't blow it out?
Any twists in tactics to use when the bird also has bright whites, yellows or reds that you don't want to blow?
Any hints or strategies that some of you may use and would be willing to share would certainly be appreciated.
Thanks.
First, you shouldn't need to worry about the BG to avoid blowing out (assuming that the scene isn't too high contrast). Instead, you should probably be using exposure compensation (usually in Av mode for DOF control). Whether or not the scene blows out will also depend on your metering. If you're spot metering on the bird, you'll probably need to dial in -1 or so compensation. This is because a spot meter on the bird will attempt to make it look middle gray, so it will overexpose.
If you're matrix or scene metering, it depends on the BG. The meter will try to make the whole scene middle gray. So if you have a bright scene, you may need plus compensation. I tend to use spot metering, since with bird photos, I care more about the subject than anything else. For more environmental shots, or multi-colored/moving birds, other metering modes may be better, but you need to have an idea of the brightness of the overall scene for compensation.
I've also found that low angle light or flat light will show more of the feather detail.
And of course, always check the histogram and the "blinkies". If your camera has an RGB histogram, you can check these channels as well. If the bird has both bright whites and dark blacks and the light is overly bright, you may not be able to expose for both perfectly. It may be that you need to split the difference.
I'm sure others may have better technique and more experience - I'm curious to hear them as well...
Thank you Al Forns for this tip. You can see some results on my site if you wish. I have a RWBB and a Grackle in the Most Recent gallery.
I hope this helps :)
(Sorry for the edits...i kept thinking of one more thing, Ron)
I use Av and evaluative in-camera metering widely when I'm walking into a situation with changing lighting (like partly cloudy skies or shifts in sun/shade), and then I use exposure compensation as needed. But if the light's steady, manual is the way to go. Using one of the in-camera metering systems will always present some limitations, and the big drawback of metering modes and EC is that once the bird changes position or hops to another perch, the BG may be very different and then you've got to adjust EC to compensate for the changes made to the metering by the BG. This is especially evident during bird-in-flight work but also applies to perched birds. The more time you spend jacking around with EC, the more shots you're going to miss.
Using manual exposure mode takes some getting used to, and as stated it isn't the best option under all conditions, but when you get used to it in conjunction with the histogram you'll love your exposures.
In the case of a black/white bird in the sun, as stated you can't make an exposure perfect for blacks and whites combined. Using the histogram (and regardless of whether I'm in manual exposure mode or using in-camera metering and Av/EC,) I expose so that the brightest highlights in the whites are just barely blinking. This assures me I'll have the lightest blacks with the most detail possible, and if only small portions of the highlights are blinking I'll easily be able to recover them in CS2 using either the RAW preview screen or shadows/highlights.
this subject has plagued me as of late. I feel like adding light (+1 or 2 stops) doesn't always look natural in terms of a birds plumage. On cloudy days, if the bird is against a grey sky, it seems there is just no way of not completely blowing out the backround. Sometimes I like the effect, sometimes not. In the sun, the irredescence and shininess of some species plumage will completely overexpose when the rest of the bird is perfect exposure wise.
I think you know, I'm really into ravens. While there are ravens all over southern Oregon, I havent't found any in the immediate area that aren't extremely wary of humans. About 100 miles west of here, Crescent City CA there are a bunch of ravens that are somewhat "tame" so I've been paying them visits. The trouble is that I haven't gotten there for the sweet, low morning sun because of the distance. What I'm getting at is I think like usual, great low light is maybe the key.
Good topic you posted here.