Has anyone tried fill with bif shooting, using the FP type modes, and found enough reach for maybe -2 at a reasonable distance/ aperture/iso?..............i'm thinking maybe 35m
Since parting with my D70 {and the ability to sync throughout its shutter range}, i am now forced to purchase a new flashgun and use this method, and relegate my non-dedicated flashguns to general situations.
However, i don't want to fork out the cash, if bif-fill is not very feasable with this 'high-sync' mode {the flashgun GN's seem worthless for calculation purposes, due to variable power loss with this method}.
I would guess i would need to use my clumsey Better Beamer, to have any chance {which i didn't need with the d70/flash}, but if this is the only way, i will have to put up with it.
My only other concern is whether i am able to continue using manual exposure, if using the FP mode {if not, i will have to re-think my upgrade plan}.
Any help appreciated!
Alan
Posted by Andy Astbury on April 11, 2008 at 8:51 AM
Alan - I went on this 'hamster wheel' myself a while back and to be honest it wasn't worth the effort.
From my experience I've got better BiF shots with available light and careful use of ev comp than I ever got using fill flash in any mode.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you won't get good results as you only have to look at some of Arty M's work to see that you can; it's just one of those 'black arts' who's intricacies seem to elude my 'noggins' capabilities!
The SB800/BB combo does work well as fill as long as you make sure that the BB is aligned properly. TTL BL FP is great for perched subjects and 'crossing' subjects,subject where the flash to subject distance doesn't change; but when you have subjects like geese or herons flying towards you your exposure requirements are changing 'right rapido' and for me neither the D200 or the D2Xs seem to be able to control the flash output fast enough to cope.
Funnily enough, when I was using both Nikon and Canon systems I found I got a lot less under or over exposed frames using the 580EXII Canon setup than my Nikon gear.
But as I said before, I've eventually found it just as productive and easier on the brain to use available light and switch to spot metering - but then again, that's just me
Cheers Andy.............I'm sure you are right, and available light is perfectly adequate and makes life simpler for BIF.
I am fairly restricted in finding suitable locations for this subject, with regards to light direction and ideal vantage points. My SW facing coast only gives me limited shooting time, before i'm faced with diagonal light, so this is my main reason for looking into its possibility.
It seemed to work effectively, in limited situations, with my d70 and 300mm f4, although the shortish FL required me to use a relatively shorter shooting distance {which made life easier, regarding flash reach}. However, now that i am using a 640mm f5.6 as my main FL/max aperture {400mm +1.6tc}, the prospect of fill/bif is a different ball-game, regarding flash reach.
Seems to be one area where flash control has become over-complicated.
I think i shall concede defeat, and remain with ambient only, for these situations, and hopefully find that 'ideal' bif location.
Hi Alan,
I tried it at Gigrin once with the Red Kites and although there was a very,very slight difference, when the birds were close enough, it wasn't really very effective and I probably wouldn't bother with it again.
I was using a Canon 580EX with Better Beamer attached.
As Andy says, I'd also rather try and use natural light, when conditions were looking favourable.
Thanks Justin...............It appears fill is rarely used for this subject, and probably for good reason overall.
I would have liked the option, partly as a noise suppresser in the shadow areas, and also because it would suit the way my tc-16a works, and make bif-fill a simple procedure. Due to the band focusing, the first frame in any sequence of shots is effectively a 'trap focus' scenario, allowing me to preset the shooting distance quite accurately. Had i been able to use my old non-dedicated flashguns, i would have been able to continue firing whilst the flash was re-charging {in manual exposure mode}, and end up with one frame with fill applied, and following frames purely lit by ambient {giving me a choice}.
Its really just a hopefull thought though, and i agree with you {judging from my limited previous experimenting} that any slight improvement will be very subtle, and probably not worth the hassle.
Discussion
4 repliesSince parting with my D70 {and the ability to sync throughout its shutter range}, i am now forced to purchase a new flashgun and use this method, and relegate my non-dedicated flashguns to general situations.
However, i don't want to fork out the cash, if bif-fill is not very feasable with this 'high-sync' mode {the flashgun GN's seem worthless for calculation purposes, due to variable power loss with this method}.
I would guess i would need to use my clumsey Better Beamer, to have any chance {which i didn't need with the d70/flash}, but if this is the only way, i will have to put up with it.
My only other concern is whether i am able to continue using manual exposure, if using the FP mode {if not, i will have to re-think my upgrade plan}.
Any help appreciated!
Alan
From my experience I've got better BiF shots with available light and careful use of ev comp than I ever got using fill flash in any mode.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you won't get good results as you only have to look at some of Arty M's work to see that you can; it's just one of those 'black arts' who's intricacies seem to elude my 'noggins' capabilities!
The SB800/BB combo does work well as fill as long as you make sure that the BB is aligned properly. TTL BL FP is great for perched subjects and 'crossing' subjects,subject where the flash to subject distance doesn't change; but when you have subjects like geese or herons flying towards you your exposure requirements are changing 'right rapido' and for me neither the D200 or the D2Xs seem to be able to control the flash output fast enough to cope.
Funnily enough, when I was using both Nikon and Canon systems I found I got a lot less under or over exposed frames using the 580EXII Canon setup than my Nikon gear.
But as I said before, I've eventually found it just as productive and easier on the brain to use available light and switch to spot metering - but then again, that's just me
I am fairly restricted in finding suitable locations for this subject, with regards to light direction and ideal vantage points. My SW facing coast only gives me limited shooting time, before i'm faced with diagonal light, so this is my main reason for looking into its possibility.
It seemed to work effectively, in limited situations, with my d70 and 300mm f4, although the shortish FL required me to use a relatively shorter shooting distance {which made life easier, regarding flash reach}. However, now that i am using a 640mm f5.6 as my main FL/max aperture {400mm +1.6tc}, the prospect of fill/bif is a different ball-game, regarding flash reach.
Seems to be one area where flash control has become over-complicated.
I think i shall concede defeat, and remain with ambient only, for these situations, and hopefully find that 'ideal' bif location.
Cheers for that!
Alan
I tried it at Gigrin once with the Red Kites and although there was a very,very slight difference, when the birds were close enough, it wasn't really very effective and I probably wouldn't bother with it again.
I was using a Canon 580EX with Better Beamer attached.
As Andy says, I'd also rather try and use natural light, when conditions were looking favourable.
I would have liked the option, partly as a noise suppresser in the shadow areas, and also because it would suit the way my tc-16a works, and make bif-fill a simple procedure. Due to the band focusing, the first frame in any sequence of shots is effectively a 'trap focus' scenario, allowing me to preset the shooting distance quite accurately. Had i been able to use my old non-dedicated flashguns, i would have been able to continue firing whilst the flash was re-charging {in manual exposure mode}, and end up with one frame with fill applied, and following frames purely lit by ambient {giving me a choice}.
Its really just a hopefull thought though, and i agree with you {judging from my limited previous experimenting} that any slight improvement will be very subtle, and probably not worth the hassle.
Oh well, back to the noise ninja, if needed
Thanks
Alan