Hello all, this is the first post I've started. I have a digital camera but also like to shoot film, although admittedly I am a novice with film cameras.
I'm planning on taking pictures of streams and forest in overcast, diffuse lighting with Velvia 50. My question is, assuming my exposure times are from a few seconds up to a minute or so, should I use a magenta filter in order to achieve deep vibrant greens?
I've looked online and found spec sheets and some personal opinions at other sites, but nothing that has satisfied my curiosity. According to spec sheets from Velvia, a magenta filter is recommended for exposure times within my range. On other sites, people have said that is not necessary.
For those of you who have shot forests with Velvia 50 in the conditions I mentioned, have you used magenta filters? What was the effect on the color? If you haven't used magenta filters, did your photos come out with an unpleasing color cast? Do you have photos you can show me as examples?
I'm looking for any information from those who have relevant experience.
When I was using film, I used Provia 100 and occasionally, but not often, Velvia 50. I often used longish exposures, 10 to 30 seconds. I didn't shoot in forests or scenes with lots of green. I never used colored filters and never had a problem with color cast or ill effects from reciprocity failure. So, I guess my experience is only marginally relevant.
Using a magenta filter seem counter intuitive, to me. I would expect it simply to add a magenta cast, unless perhaps you were to use extremely long exposures. I'm assuming that the idea is that the magenta filter is to compensate for reciprocity failure. You could always play it safe and try it with and without the filter.
I hope you get better input than mine. I'm curious about this too.
I've shot Provia 100 for years. It does especially well with greens as fuji is known for. I would buy a roll of Provia and give it a try. I haven't used 50 in years but with the tightness of the 100 I opted for another stop.
I haven't used the new Velvia 50, but I used to use the old stuff with a warming polarizer under those conditions and I liked the results. I think Adam is right. If you scan your own slides, you should be able to get what you want in post processing.
With the old Velvia 50, I never really saw a color shift up to 30 seconds, which is a speed I shot at fairly regularly. I never shot significantly longer than that often enough to comment.
Again on the older Velvia 50, I recall that the color shift was magenta so adding a magenta filter isn't going to correct for that.
For forest scenes with a general green cast (and ignoring the color shift resulting from reciprocity failure), a very light magenta filter will compensate for the green color cast. Depending on the nature of the scene, though, I think you'll actually want to keep the color cast. If nothing else, shoot one with and one without the filter.
The one review I have read of the new 50 indicated that the color is not affected by reciprocity failure up to about one minute. I haven't looked more carefully at that film very seriously since with 4x5, even the 100 is a horribly slow film. And not the 100F, which just doesn't work for me.
I suggest that before you do any serious work (i.e. irreplaceable work) run some tests to see if you like the results. Velvia has a very narrow dynamic range; shadows tend to block up. So, you should pay careful attention to the exposure increases that correct for failure of the reciprocity law.
If a color correction filter is called for for very long exposures, and if you intend to do a lot of this kind of shooting, you should consider obtaining the filter(s) needed. It may not be possible to remove an unwanted color cast in PhotoShop without causing shifts in other colors. In my opinion, it is best to get the best quality image on the film. It is then much easier to scan and work with later.
I still shoot mostly with velvia 50. I've never noticed a color shift on forest images even up to a minute. I think greens are rendered faithfully on velvia 50. It really depends on how you want the image to look.
Jay, I found a slight green cast with Velvia 50 (old version) and less so with the new version on birch, aspen, and alder trees when there was an overcast day. When shooting water with a polarizer on overcast days, Velvia 50 would go cool or more blue. I would use an 81A or 81B filter fairly often under these conditions. I found Koday 100VS to be more correct under overcast conditions and not have a color cast when shooting birch, aspen, or alder forests.
The only time I needed CC filters with Velvia was for night photography. When you think about it, the very reason to use Velvia in the first place is exactly because of its color shifting qualities. If you want neutral life-like colors, there are much better films for that.
Like other suggested, if you plan to scan and edit your images digitally you can correct any offending casts in Photoshop. Of course, if you plan to edit digitally, again, there are much better films than Velvia to get you a better (less contrasty) starting point
Velvia is great for that "wow" feeling that makes your day when you pick up your film at the lab or throw it on a light table. That alone is worth something. If you're looking for a practical film that's easier to live with and has decent reciprocity characteristics, you should probably look to some of its stablemates (Astia, Provia, NPS etc.)
I've shot all versions of Velvia (50, 100, 100F and new 50) on 4 X 5 with exposures in the minutes and have never seen significant color shifts due to the exposure time. I've have however, seen color shifts based on the filtering of light such as in deep shade. I'd agree with Preston. Get some and expose a roll. All of the Velvias are slightly different in palate and saturation.
Thanks very much for all of the replies. I will do a test, and now I can make a more educated guess as to the initial parameters, and perhaps save some film and trips across town for developing. At this point I think the addition of a warming polarizer makes the most sense, especially to avoid the blue cast on water. I plan on shooting Douglas fir and cedar mostly, as I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I am looking for a deep green hue, just not too cartoonish. But I appreciate knowing about the green cast with the birch, aspen, and alder trees.
I realize Photoshop allows for a great deal of color adjusting. However, I would perfer to get everything right in capture, if possible, because a) my PP'ing skills leave a lot to be desired, b) I try to minimize my time on the computer fiddling with photos and c) as Preston mentioned, I it may not be possible (or practical) to produce the desired end product in Photoshop.
If you have any links to photos of forests/streams/waterfalls in overcast and shady conditions shot with Velvia 50 I'd love to see them.
Old Velvia had a shift to green. This is why we used 5MCC & 10MCC filters for long exposures. I sold mine to Michael Hardeman. He shoots 8x10 and old Velvia so he needed it. I think the new films need a 5BCC (blue) to offset the magenta shift. The color shift is nowhere near the color shift of the old Velvia.
Discussion
12 repliesI'm planning on taking pictures of streams and forest in overcast, diffuse lighting with Velvia 50. My question is, assuming my exposure times are from a few seconds up to a minute or so, should I use a magenta filter in order to achieve deep vibrant greens?
I've looked online and found spec sheets and some personal opinions at other sites, but nothing that has satisfied my curiosity. According to spec sheets from Velvia, a magenta filter is recommended for exposure times within my range. On other sites, people have said that is not necessary.
For those of you who have shot forests with Velvia 50 in the conditions I mentioned, have you used magenta filters? What was the effect on the color? If you haven't used magenta filters, did your photos come out with an unpleasing color cast? Do you have photos you can show me as examples?
I'm looking for any information from those who have relevant experience.
Thanks very much in advance.
Using a magenta filter seem counter intuitive, to me. I would expect it simply to add a magenta cast, unless perhaps you were to use extremely long exposures. I'm assuming that the idea is that the magenta filter is to compensate for reciprocity failure. You could always play it safe and try it with and without the filter.
I hope you get better input than mine. I'm curious about this too.
Will you be scanning the film? If so I would shoot without any color-correction filters and correct later in Photoshop.
Again on the older Velvia 50, I recall that the color shift was magenta so adding a magenta filter isn't going to correct for that.
For forest scenes with a general green cast (and ignoring the color shift resulting from reciprocity failure), a very light magenta filter will compensate for the green color cast. Depending on the nature of the scene, though, I think you'll actually want to keep the color cast. If nothing else, shoot one with and one without the filter.
The one review I have read of the new 50 indicated that the color is not affected by reciprocity failure up to about one minute. I haven't looked more carefully at that film very seriously since with 4x5, even the 100 is a horribly slow film.
I suggest that before you do any serious work (i.e. irreplaceable work) run some tests to see if you like the results. Velvia has a very narrow dynamic range; shadows tend to block up. So, you should pay careful attention to the exposure increases that correct for failure of the reciprocity law.
If a color correction filter is called for for very long exposures, and if you intend to do a lot of this kind of shooting, you should consider obtaining the filter(s) needed. It may not be possible to remove an unwanted color cast in PhotoShop without causing shifts in other colors. In my opinion, it is best to get the best quality image on the film. It is then much easier to scan and work with later.
Let us know how it works out for you.
-PB
David M. Cobb
Like other suggested, if you plan to scan and edit your images digitally you can correct any offending casts in Photoshop. Of course, if you plan to edit digitally, again, there are much better films than Velvia to get you a better (less contrasty) starting point
Velvia is great for that "wow" feeling that makes your day when you pick up your film at the lab or throw it on a light table. That alone is worth something. If you're looking for a practical film that's easier to live with and has decent reciprocity characteristics, you should probably look to some of its stablemates (Astia, Provia, NPS etc.)
Guy
I realize Photoshop allows for a great deal of color adjusting. However, I would perfer to get everything right in capture, if possible, because a) my PP'ing skills leave a lot to be desired, b) I try to minimize my time on the computer fiddling with photos and c) as Preston mentioned, I it may not be possible (or practical) to produce the desired end product in Photoshop.
If you have any links to photos of forests/streams/waterfalls in overcast and shady conditions shot with Velvia 50 I'd love to see them.
Thanks again, your input was very helpful.
Man, I'm glad I only shoot digital!