Sad, sad day. I've really enjoyed shooting 4x5 for the last 4 years or so, but I'm just not getting out enough these days to justify having 4x5 and a digital setup.
Details are posted on the classifieds page, but here are the essentials. I'll be listing on ebay this weekend, but am posting here with an RMNP discount, about 5-7% below recently sold ebay auction prices. All gear is in excellent to mint condition.
Wista DX 4x5: $700
Lenses (All lenses come mounted on a lens board):
- Schneider 120mm Super Symmar HM: RMNP $1175 - this is my sharpest lens; absolutely amazing and they're tough to find used.
- Nikkor 300mm f/9: RMNP $695
After my two week trip in the PNW I was convinced of one things regarding gear. It takes 'a lot' of abuse! The combo of windy salt air, sand, rain, waterfalls, etc... convinced me that shooting the PNW with a 4x5 would be very difficult and expensive. I think that is one reason most of the guys on that forum shoot digital.
I was reading a post by Mark A. in which he was shooting a waterfall 6" from the water with his new 1DSIII. He said afterwards it was no different than completely immersing it in the water.
I think I am still finding sand in my gear.LOL... But it was worth the abuse my gear took.
Mel, Laurent - if I don't sell them on ebay, I may setup a 'lease-to-own' program.
Derek - as far as abuse, LF is much more resistant to environmental abuses than digital. I could submerge the 4x5 for an hour, pull it out and be taking pictures with it 5 minutes later. It's pretty much impervious to sand and rain - there's simply nothing to damage. High winds are the big drawback for an LF system. So far, I've found OR to be much less windy than CO; the coast may be a different story, but after having spent many years on submarines, I have nooooo strong calling to go to the ocean. I was tempted to sell my digital setup and keep the LF as my only system, but the coin came up 'tails'.
Derek - I agree with Rick. I have shot up in the Pac NW and even much more abusive environments like the Philippines where it rains and is always 100% humidity with my 4x5 gear. Even dropped a lens over there and never skipped a beat. IMHO 4x5 gear is much more rigorous than my 5D and 20D. While I like my digital gear and gets heavily used on many of my projects I stil always shoot my 4x5 as a first choice and if I am shooting detail work, architecture or anything else that requires movements it is no question my 1st chioce. And I dont just shoot 4x5 for the 'ability to make large images' but because the images almost always look a ton better with the care and consideration that you can give to controlling and modifying the parameters surrounding the execution of the image.
Wow, I had no idea 4x5s could handle water, sand, etc... that much. It just looks so much more fragile with the fancy wood, bellows and constant film change outs for each shot. I think that was always one of the reasons I resisted the urge to try LF.
I knew about the wind issue. And yes the coast has a lot more wind in OR. My last night on the coast with the sunburst over Haceta Head I was shooting directly into the sun, wind and rain. This was also one of the most rewarding nights on the coast.
But I also discovered a lot wind while shooting the falls. I think some of it is actually generated from the large falls themselves. In both cases wind and strong mist from the falls was constantly present while shooting. Maybe when the falls are not peaking it is less of an issue though.
Anyway I have decided I am a digital guy. So Richie will not get me to drink the 'cool-aid' even though I love his 4x5 work. I can't argue however argue with the spectacular results.
Rick, Say it isn't so!
That said, the 80mm is just what I've been wanting. Unfortunately the cost isn't in the cards right now. Let me know if that lease program opens up!
I didn't know you were a submariner. I've spent a fair amount of time on fast attack boats. Cool mission. Hell of a lifestyle. I much prefer flying off carriers. I avoided ASW aviation due to my respect for what submarines can do and the near futility of trying to find them with an airplane. Good luck with the sale.
Bill, I use the photobackpacker system and I've been happy with it. Let me know if you have any questions.
Ok, Richie. You got me. But how you do it I don't know. Didn't you find the wind generated from the falls difficult to deal with? In this composition it doesn't look like you were that far away either.
Beautiful composition BTW - an angle I wish I would have shot while there. I also shot from the bridge, but the spray was too intense. I could not keep the lens dry long enough to get anything usable. I had the umbrella in between the falls and my lens and would pull it away at the last minute. I was also constantly wiping the front element in an attempt to keep it dry.
To Bill, I also use part of the Photobackpacker system, though I use them with my own pack. I have the camera case and a lens case. They work really well and make good cases for medium format too from what I understand.
OK OK I have a better idea for the 80mm. Rick can donate it to the RMNPers here in Denver and let it stay in Aurora with me where I promise to loan it out . How's that Rick?
Derek - Yea - I was faced with the same issues you ran into plus of course i had rain coming straight down. In LF you just stay there til you get those few seconds you need to get off a shot with out wind. What I found in the gorge was that if you just waited <15minutes you could always depend on at least one opportunity to get a sheet off. My lens was pretty wet so I just kept working on it with PEC pads and kept the cap on until the last possible second before shooting. In the original shot there is a blatant wet spot on the lower right on the sheet (it doesnt detract from the image - but is defintely apparent if you look at the print).
Hmmmmm.... that donation thing is a tempting proposition; let me think abou... nevermind. I'm selling it.
$1395 is a great deal - they're going for $1800 - $2000 new. It's the most fun you'll ever have with 80mm. Ummm...wait, that didn't sound quite right....
Kalin - I didn't know you were on subs. I was on a boomer, Poseidon class, stationed out of Holy Loch, Scotland. I was a 'nuke'. Yep - it's quite a unique lifestyle. The whole "join the Navy, see the world" campaign had a small footnote (that I apparently missed) explaining that it was n/a for missle subs. I saw precisely none of the world. Actually, we did pull into Barbados and Puerto Rico, and Scotland was amazingly beautiful. But other than that, it was four years of 3 month patrols underwater w/o sunshine, fresh air or anything else for that matter. Thanks for not ASW'ing us - that would've sucked.
One of the reasons that there are so many RMNPers shooting LF is, imo, all Brent Doerzman's and Scott Bacon's fault. It can be an intimidating learning curve. I had contemplated LF for a few years before I started participating in what at the time was CNP. Brent and Scott were shooting LF, I think Todd was still shooting LF at the time as well; having access to people who knew what they were doing with a 4x5 made the learning curve much more manageable. The annual shindig is another major reason - looking at all those amazing trannies on the light table was incredibly inspiring.
Even with the immense library of LF knowledge here, it took me over a year to really get myself in synch with the process. Then, every so often, I'd make an image like the one here and then you're hooked. A good drum scan would easily reveal the detail in the red maples far off in the distance. It's sick how much detail is there.
Rick, that shot is one of my favorites. Totally, completely, friggin' awesome.
As to moving away from 4x5, I understand. Personally, I won't quite say, "I'm done with LF." And I'm not selling off my equipment (may never). But I'm with you on the, "I'm just not getting out enough these days..." For me shooting LF is a real craft, and one that I, personally, need to practice frequently. When I don't, shooting becomes difficult again - almost stressful. And I don't need anymore stress in my life. But I haven't found, or can't afford, the DSLR LF-killer, so I'm still hanging with 2 systems.
Regardless, I think using LF elevated your photography to a new level. I'm not saying that you wouldn't have got there without LF. Just that it was a good path for you. Your stuff is amazing. Keep up the good work whatever equipment you're using.
Thanks for the kind words guys. Scott - exactly; it's not like riding a bike, as I found on my recent trip. Ruined a couple of sheets by not compensating for filters, forgot to zero out the front standard on my first shot (fortunately I noticed it through the gg).... It does become stressful, worrying if you're forgetting something that may ruin your only opportunity to capture a scene. Not getting out much is frustrating by itself; compounding it by making the photography part of it stressful doesn't make much sense.
I would just hang onto the gear, but the funds will go to either a 1DS MKIII, or the next Nikon FF model. Maybe even a shift lens or two, which would be *almost* as good as the 4x5.
Posted by Laurent Baig on June 10, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Last time I got on my mountain bike, I discovered I couldn't ride up steps anymore, my turning skills were crap, and I just didn't have the oomph I used to have...Maybe the analogy isn't that bad at least if you're talking Mountain Biking...Heck with the road weanies.
You got that payment plan setup for that 80mm yet?
Discussion
23 repliesDetails are posted on the classifieds page, but here are the essentials. I'll be listing on ebay this weekend, but am posting here with an RMNP discount, about 5-7% below recently sold ebay auction prices. All gear is in excellent to mint condition.
Wista DX 4x5: $700
Lenses (All lenses come mounted on a lens board):
- Schneider 120mm Super Symmar HM: RMNP $1175 - this is my sharpest lens; absolutely amazing and they're tough to find used.
- Nikkor 300mm f/9: RMNP $695
Accessories
Sekonic L-558: RMNP $350
Toyo 3.6x Focusing Loupe: $35
Film
Sheets
- 43 Provia 100 (Exp 3/2004) - $20
- 16 Ilford Delta 100 (Exp 12/2006): $10
- 22 Ilford HP5 400 (Exp 1/2007): $15
Buyer pays shipping (USPS Priority, UPS or FedEx, from Portland, OR); Paypal preferred.
Contact me via email; first email gets priority.
Thanks!
Sorry to see you are leaving the LF system.
After my two week trip in the PNW I was convinced of one things regarding gear. It takes 'a lot' of abuse! The combo of windy salt air, sand, rain, waterfalls, etc... convinced me that shooting the PNW with a 4x5 would be very difficult and expensive. I think that is one reason most of the guys on that forum shoot digital.
I was reading a post by Mark A. in which he was shooting a waterfall 6" from the water with his new 1DSIII.
I think I am still finding sand in my gear.LOL... But it was worth the abuse my gear took.
Derek - as far as abuse, LF is much more resistant to environmental abuses than digital. I could submerge the 4x5 for an hour, pull it out and be taking pictures with it 5 minutes later. It's pretty much impervious to sand and rain - there's simply nothing to damage. High winds are the big drawback for an LF system. So far, I've found OR to be much less windy than CO; the coast may be a different story, but after having spent many years on submarines, I have nooooo strong calling to go to the ocean. I was tempted to sell my digital setup and keep the LF as my only system, but the coin came up 'tails'.
http://www.photobackpacker.com/home.asp
You can't sell now !
Derek - I agree with Rick. I have shot up in the Pac NW and even much more abusive environments like the Philippines where it rains and is always 100% humidity with my 4x5 gear. Even dropped a lens over there and never skipped a beat. IMHO 4x5 gear is much more rigorous than my 5D and 20D. While I like my digital gear and gets heavily used on many of my projects I stil always shoot my 4x5 as a first choice and if I am shooting detail work, architecture or anything else that requires movements it is no question my 1st chioce. And I dont just shoot 4x5 for the 'ability to make large images' but because the images almost always look a ton better with the care and consideration that you can give to controlling and modifying the parameters surrounding the execution of the image.
RichieV
Actually it's just cuz there a bunch of girly men
I knew about the wind issue. And yes the coast has a lot more wind in OR. My last night on the coast with the sunburst over Haceta Head I was shooting directly into the sun, wind and rain. This was also one of the most rewarding nights on the coast.
But I also discovered a lot wind while shooting the falls. I think some of it is actually generated from the large falls themselves. In both cases wind and strong mist from the falls was constantly present while shooting. Maybe when the falls are not peaking it is less of an issue though.
Anyway I have decided I am a digital guy. So Richie will not get me to drink the 'cool-aid' even though I love his 4x5 work.
Wisner 4x5
Schneider 110mm XL
TMAX 100
That said, the 80mm is just what I've been wanting. Unfortunately the cost isn't in the cards right now. Let me know if that lease program opens up!
I didn't know you were a submariner. I've spent a fair amount of time on fast attack boats. Cool mission. Hell of a lifestyle. I much prefer flying off carriers. I avoided ASW aviation due to my respect for what submarines can do and the near futility of trying to find them with an airplane. Good luck with the sale.
Bill, I use the photobackpacker system and I've been happy with it. Let me know if you have any questions.
Nice shot, Richie!
Beautiful composition BTW - an angle I wish I would have shot while there. I also shot from the bridge, but the spray was too intense. I could not keep the lens dry long enough to get anything usable. I had the umbrella in between the falls and my lens and would pull it away at the last minute. I was also constantly wiping the front element in an attempt to keep it dry.
Derek - Yea - I was faced with the same issues you ran into plus of course i had rain coming straight down. In LF you just stay there til you get those few seconds you need to get off a shot with out wind. What I found in the gorge was that if you just waited <15minutes you could always depend on at least one opportunity to get a sheet off. My lens was pretty wet so I just kept working on it with PEC pads and kept the cap on until the last possible second before shooting. In the original shot there is a blatant wet spot on the lower right on the sheet (it doesnt detract from the image - but is defintely apparent if you look at the print).
RichieV
Wisner 4x5
Nikon 210mm W
TMAX 100
RichieV
$1395 is a great deal - they're going for $1800 - $2000 new. It's the most fun you'll ever have with 80mm. Ummm...wait, that didn't sound quite right....
Kalin - I didn't know you were on subs. I was on a boomer, Poseidon class, stationed out of Holy Loch, Scotland. I was a 'nuke'. Yep - it's quite a unique lifestyle. The whole "join the Navy, see the world" campaign had a small footnote (that I apparently missed) explaining that it was n/a for missle subs. I saw precisely none of the world. Actually, we did pull into Barbados and Puerto Rico, and Scotland was amazingly beautiful. But other than that, it was four years of 3 month patrols underwater w/o sunshine, fresh air or anything else for that matter. Thanks for not ASW'ing us - that would've sucked.
Even with the immense library of LF knowledge here, it took me over a year to really get myself in synch with the process. Then, every so often, I'd make an image like the one here and then you're hooked. A good drum scan would easily reveal the detail in the red maples far off in the distance. It's sick how much detail is there.
That is really a gorgeous trannie.
RV
I love that shot, Rick!
As to moving away from 4x5, I understand. Personally, I won't quite say, "I'm done with LF." And I'm not selling off my equipment (may never). But I'm with you on the, "I'm just not getting out enough these days..." For me shooting LF is a real craft, and one that I, personally, need to practice frequently. When I don't, shooting becomes difficult again - almost stressful. And I don't need anymore stress in my life.
Regardless, I think using LF elevated your photography to a new level. I'm not saying that you wouldn't have got there without LF. Just that it was a good path for you. Your stuff is amazing. Keep up the good work whatever equipment you're using.
I would just hang onto the gear, but the funds will go to either a 1DS MKIII, or the next Nikon FF model. Maybe even a shift lens or two, which would be *almost* as good as the 4x5.
You got that payment plan setup for that 80mm yet?