I have been interested in and practicing wildlife photography for about 9 months now, and so I am very much a novice/beginner. I have been participating in the avian forum for a few months and enjoying it very much.
My equipment is not the best, a 6.2 megapixel D50 and a 70-300mmvr lens. I can not afford a good long prime lens at this point. I have to get close, nearly full frame with a 300mm, to get acceptable detail with this setup
I have been experimenting with different methods to get close enough without disturbing the birds. I try to be thoughtful and not cause stress on the birds, for instance I have not approached or photographed any nests or nesting behavior. I have read and try to follow the NP code of conduct.
I have used blinds, feeders, set up perches near feeders, and experimented with using and artificial background (painted plywood) set up behind a perch to get an even background.
I am wondering what your opinions are on attracting birds with feeders, setting up perches near feeders, and setting up an artificial background behind a perch to get a clean background in the photo.
Thanks.
Posted by Lisa Cuchara on June 8, 2008 at 12:28 AM
I am not an expert, but there are several in this forum. Also look at the Art Morris Bird forum -- lots of good photos and ideas there too!
Lots of us set out bird seed, suet, meal worms, etc. in our backyard and then place a "snag" nearby (birds often like to make a stop on a snag on the way in to the food). Read some of Art Morris's Birds as Art and you will see some of his set ups. We have several photographers around our area that have potted arborvitae, mountain laurel, etc. and they just move it around to place it in their background. One even has a bucket of cement, hardeded with a pole in it so that he can set out different types of snags. A simple cut up dixie cup full of chilled meal worms placed behind a log often provides lots of photos ops. Shoot wide open with your 300mm and backgrounds will blur nicely regardless of the actual background.
As far as nests and babies that is much harder. For eggs the mother might leave, either for a while and the eggs can get too hot or too cold or even permanently. We have loons nesting on friend's lake and people harass her (for photographs or because they like to fish around her nest) and sometimes the mother is off the nest too long and the eggs do not make it. Any kind of stress and you should leave. If you are taking photographs and the babies are not getting regularly fed then they can be disadvantaged and perish.
Some birds can be adapted with meal worms so that they KNOW that you are going to feed them. I have a friend who whistles and the birds appear, knowing that meal worms are associated with the sound. They even bring their babies out when the time is right. It takes patience and still requires a blind.
Read as many articles as you can on snags, feeding, etc. and you will learn the dos and dont's.
Post some of your photos, we'd all love to see them!
I have enjoyed seeing all your images in Avian and look forward to seeing many more.
Here are two links that I remember a being discussed a short while back on the UKNP, and maybe there’s some useful information to help you with your quest!
I am so glad that Dan asked these questions. I have similar interests (even have similar equipment), and I have been quizzing various contributors on Avian for insights about their techniques and experiences. Many have been very generous with their replies. As with Lisa and Paul above, I hope others contribute here, as well. We will be forever grateful.
I don't set up feeders for birds because that would mean an ongoing battle where I live with squirrels, rats and other varmits. There is an abundant natural food supply in the yard, but because of the density of trees here I do not often photograph birds at home any way.
I have no objection to other people having properly maintained feeders, including keeping the feeders full because birds do become dependent on the food source.
I have no objection to perches being placed near the food source.
As you can probably tell I spend a great deal of time photographing shorebirds because that is what is most abundant in my area. When I do photograph passerines, hawks, owls, etc., I prefer natural backgrounds & habitat.
That does some times mean I have a messier background than I prefer, but that is ok with me.
When I am photographing birds, I am also observing them, noticing their habits, their habitat choices, their movements, song, and feeding patterns. For me observing them in their natural enviroment is as pleasing and appealing to me as taking photos of them.
I also learn a great deal about the birds by watching them, and is of future benefit to me when I can recall which birds like which environment, or even from a great distance to be able to identify a bird by some thing as simple as a tail twitch.
What I try to portray in my images are the birds in their natural state, I believe I accomplish that.
Dan, I still have my Nikon 70-300mm with VR, it is a nice lens. What I discovered while I was using it most often is that I had to focus on my stalking skills more and I learned how to get closer to the birds without stressing them. Which has some times meant crawling slower than a snail, but it is worth it to me to get images where the birds are not visibly stressed in the images by me.
Having developed finer stalking skills is still a benefit to me even with a longer lens, because in my mind it isn't always about getting closer, but having the bird feel comfortable in my presence.
I don't know if I have answered any of your questions specifically, if you have any that you would like to ask me directly, please feel free to email me.
There is a wide variety of passionately held opinions on the issues you address. Here is mine.
I agree with Lia's comments above. In addition, for me it's largely about disclosure. I strongly believe that whenever an image is posted on any "nature photography" forum and the capture of that image involved feeders, perches where they would not be naturally, altered or artificial backgrounds and the like, it should always be disclosed.
I use a feeder setup in my back yard. I mostly use it for practice and rarely post images shot there. But I have. And probably will again in the future. I have, and will, mention in my posting comment that it was a setup shot. If there is something unusual or not obvious about my background I will mention what it is.
Many believe that all images posted on these forums should be strictly natural - no setups. I can see their point. But then the debate begins on what is natural and degenerates from there IMO.
So, for me it boils down to open and full disclosure. For what it's worth.
Thanks for bringing this up here; I was going to comment in your goldfinch thread but was concerned it would go sour rather quickly.
I'm definitely in the natural camp on this and agree strongly with Lia and Ron. I think the essence of Natural Photography is being Natural - shooting wild subjects (as much as they are these days) in natural settings and without manipulation by the photographer. So, I don't create setups, I don't use tapes to pull in birds, and I don't post shots from around feeders. As Lia indicates I get lots of my enjoyment from being out with the birds in natural settings, and I'd leave my camera gear behind before I'd go out with my binoculars.
I'm impressed with the quality you get with such modest gear, and it speaks well of your abilities to do so.
Unfortunately, I think novice shooters get a false set of expectations early in their efforts and want to produce images as close to the top stuff as possible. Often they resort to extreme cropping to get tight compositions and image quality takes a big hit as result. I'm glad you haven't gone that direction. It is much better to recognize the limitations of the gear you have and work within them.
You can get fine shots from feeder setups, and with limited optical reach it makes sense to start out that way. But I agree strongly with Ron's basic point about being honest and fully disclosing what you have done. I wish everyone posting would talk more about how they actually got the image they did - it would go a long way to leveling the field and keeping novice expectations grounded in reality.
Yes, we feed birds in our back yard; it has been a major part of my wife's life for 30+ years and has cost a fortune in seed and meal worms. But I don't have perches set up and rarely shoot backyard birds; it "interferes" with my wife's feeding and I'd never be able to control the subjects.
I agree with Lia's point about learning to get closer to you subjects, and developing the skills to do so. For most of the time I shot birds on film my lens was a manual focus 400/5.6, and I used that with a 1.4x converter for an effective 560/8 lens. That's not much longer than your 300 when the 1.5x digital sensor factor is applied (450mm equivalent). With that lens I learned to get closer, and I learned to compose using the natural habitat without filling the frame with just the bird.
And that's another issue. I frankly don't understand why so many Nature Photographers seem to have an issue with Nature, wanting to control it or eliminate it completely from their images. To me a bird is so much more than just pretty colors and crisp feathers.
Lots of good information posted. Compared to many of the experts in this forum, I still consider myself quite a novice. But I have learned an incredible amount by using feeders, from bird ID's to bird behaviour to the more technical photographic aspects of photographing birds (lighting, background, etc...). I would say that without my feeders, it would have taken a considerably longer time to learn what I have learned without. That being said, I usually take what I've learned and apply it out in the wild and use my feeders as practice (although I have captured some - what I would call - 'keepers' from my feeders). Perhaps it is where I live, but if I exclusively photographed at my feeders, I'd be limiting myself to about <5% of the species abundance possible around here (in fact have noticed in my backyard, I end up photographing many of the same species over and over - its not boring, just fun practice). Given how backyard birding has changed my outlook on bird photography, I decided to spend a little time and write a basic article on my webpage that addresses some of the things about backyard bird photography. Quite similar to the articles already posted, but I thought I'd add it to the list: http://www.naturefocused.com/articles/bird-photography.html
Good luck and have fun!
Greg
I have several feeders set up in my yard. I have had them for years, well before I starting photographing birds. I do not set up any special perches but I do shoot birds in my yard at times. I think that it is fine. However, I do prefer to get out and capture most of my images in the wild. I get as much enjoyment from being out observing the birds as I do photographing them. After over 20 years of birding, I still get so excited when I see a new species, many times I miss the shot because I want to enjoy viewing the bird. I find it difficult to have these experiences in my yard. I really enjoy seeing many of the set up shots, including some of your posts, but it is usually pretty obvious what is a set up shot.
I totally agree with you, and it would benefit many of us if some photographers were ok with sharing how they get their shots.
I wonder if it is down to ego , or just not wanting others to achieve better , similar results ?
Bird photography for me is a way/reason to get outside. Of course I want to do the best that I can, with the resources that I can provide myself. I see no harm in a "set up" if it is disclosed that it is a set up. But, for me, that kind of takes away from it all. I like to catch the birds in their natural environment, doing their thing. However, I do have about four feeders in my back yard, now I just have to find a snag and a background.......
Discussion
10 repliesMy equipment is not the best, a 6.2 megapixel D50 and a 70-300mmvr lens. I can not afford a good long prime lens at this point. I have to get close, nearly full frame with a 300mm, to get acceptable detail with this setup
I have been experimenting with different methods to get close enough without disturbing the birds. I try to be thoughtful and not cause stress on the birds, for instance I have not approached or photographed any nests or nesting behavior. I have read and try to follow the NP code of conduct.
I have used blinds, feeders, set up perches near feeders, and experimented with using and artificial background (painted plywood) set up behind a perch to get an even background.
I am wondering what your opinions are on attracting birds with feeders, setting up perches near feeders, and setting up an artificial background behind a perch to get a clean background in the photo.
Thanks.
Lots of us set out bird seed, suet, meal worms, etc. in our backyard and then place a "snag" nearby (birds often like to make a stop on a snag on the way in to the food). Read some of Art Morris's Birds as Art and you will see some of his set ups. We have several photographers around our area that have potted arborvitae, mountain laurel, etc. and they just move it around to place it in their background. One even has a bucket of cement, hardeded with a pole in it so that he can set out different types of snags. A simple cut up dixie cup full of chilled meal worms placed behind a log often provides lots of photos ops. Shoot wide open with your 300mm and backgrounds will blur nicely regardless of the actual background.
As far as nests and babies that is much harder. For eggs the mother might leave, either for a while and the eggs can get too hot or too cold or even permanently. We have loons nesting on friend's lake and people harass her (for photographs or because they like to fish around her nest) and sometimes the mother is off the nest too long and the eggs do not make it. Any kind of stress and you should leave. If you are taking photographs and the babies are not getting regularly fed then they can be disadvantaged and perish.
Some birds can be adapted with meal worms so that they KNOW that you are going to feed them. I have a friend who whistles and the birds appear, knowing that meal worms are associated with the sound. They even bring their babies out when the time is right. It takes patience and still requires a blind.
Read as many articles as you can on snags, feeding, etc. and you will learn the dos and dont's.
Post some of your photos, we'd all love to see them!
I have enjoyed seeing all your images in Avian and look forward to seeing many more.
Here are two links that I remember a being discussed a short while back on the UKNP, and maybe there’s some useful information to help you with your quest!
http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/bbs.cgi?a=vm&mr=12098&CGISESSID=93cde8e9eb9b5bbab0b511b76f1a5d1f&u=9491
http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/bbs.cgi?a=vm&mr=27824&CGISESSID=93cde8e9eb9b5bbab0b511b76f1a5d1f&u=12035
Happy shooting,
I don't set up feeders for birds because that would mean an ongoing battle where I live with squirrels, rats and other varmits. There is an abundant natural food supply in the yard, but because of the density of trees here I do not often photograph birds at home any way.
I have no objection to other people having properly maintained feeders, including keeping the feeders full because birds do become dependent on the food source.
I have no objection to perches being placed near the food source.
As you can probably tell I spend a great deal of time photographing shorebirds because that is what is most abundant in my area. When I do photograph passerines, hawks, owls, etc., I prefer natural backgrounds & habitat.
That does some times mean I have a messier background than I prefer, but that is ok with me.
When I am photographing birds, I am also observing them, noticing their habits, their habitat choices, their movements, song, and feeding patterns. For me observing them in their natural enviroment is as pleasing and appealing to me as taking photos of them.
I also learn a great deal about the birds by watching them, and is of future benefit to me when I can recall which birds like which environment, or even from a great distance to be able to identify a bird by some thing as simple as a tail twitch.
What I try to portray in my images are the birds in their natural state, I believe I accomplish that.
Dan, I still have my Nikon 70-300mm with VR, it is a nice lens. What I discovered while I was using it most often is that I had to focus on my stalking skills more and I learned how to get closer to the birds without stressing them. Which has some times meant crawling slower than a snail, but it is worth it to me to get images where the birds are not visibly stressed in the images by me.
Having developed finer stalking skills is still a benefit to me even with a longer lens, because in my mind it isn't always about getting closer, but having the bird feel comfortable in my presence.
I don't know if I have answered any of your questions specifically, if you have any that you would like to ask me directly, please feel free to email me.
There is a wide variety of passionately held opinions on the issues you address. Here is mine.
I agree with Lia's comments above. In addition, for me it's largely about disclosure. I strongly believe that whenever an image is posted on any "nature photography" forum and the capture of that image involved feeders, perches where they would not be naturally, altered or artificial backgrounds and the like, it should always be disclosed.
I use a feeder setup in my back yard. I mostly use it for practice and rarely post images shot there. But I have. And probably will again in the future. I have, and will, mention in my posting comment that it was a setup shot. If there is something unusual or not obvious about my background I will mention what it is.
Many believe that all images posted on these forums should be strictly natural - no setups. I can see their point. But then the debate begins on what is natural and degenerates from there IMO.
So, for me it boils down to open and full disclosure. For what it's worth.
Also for what it's worth, I commend your inquiry.
I'm definitely in the natural camp on this and agree strongly with Lia and Ron. I think the essence of Natural Photography is being Natural - shooting wild subjects (as much as they are these days) in natural settings and without manipulation by the photographer. So, I don't create setups, I don't use tapes to pull in birds, and I don't post shots from around feeders. As Lia indicates I get lots of my enjoyment from being out with the birds in natural settings, and I'd leave my camera gear behind before I'd go out with my binoculars.
I'm impressed with the quality you get with such modest gear, and it speaks well of your abilities to do so.
Unfortunately, I think novice shooters get a false set of expectations early in their efforts and want to produce images as close to the top stuff as possible. Often they resort to extreme cropping to get tight compositions and image quality takes a big hit as result. I'm glad you haven't gone that direction. It is much better to recognize the limitations of the gear you have and work within them.
You can get fine shots from feeder setups, and with limited optical reach it makes sense to start out that way. But I agree strongly with Ron's basic point about being honest and fully disclosing what you have done. I wish everyone posting would talk more about how they actually got the image they did - it would go a long way to leveling the field and keeping novice expectations grounded in reality.
Yes, we feed birds in our back yard; it has been a major part of my wife's life for 30+ years and has cost a fortune in seed and meal worms. But I don't have perches set up and rarely shoot backyard birds; it "interferes" with my wife's feeding and I'd never be able to control the subjects.
I agree with Lia's point about learning to get closer to you subjects, and developing the skills to do so. For most of the time I shot birds on film my lens was a manual focus 400/5.6, and I used that with a 1.4x converter for an effective 560/8 lens. That's not much longer than your 300 when the 1.5x digital sensor factor is applied (450mm equivalent). With that lens I learned to get closer, and I learned to compose using the natural habitat without filling the frame with just the bird.
And that's another issue. I frankly don't understand why so many Nature Photographers seem to have an issue with Nature, wanting to control it or eliminate it completely from their images. To me a bird is so much more than just pretty colors and crisp feathers.
http://www.naturefocused.com/articles/bird-photography.html
Good luck and have fun!
Greg
I have several feeders set up in my yard. I have had them for years, well before I starting photographing birds. I do not set up any special perches but I do shoot birds in my yard at times. I think that it is fine. However, I do prefer to get out and capture most of my images in the wild. I get as much enjoyment from being out observing the birds as I do photographing them. After over 20 years of birding, I still get so excited when I see a new species, many times I miss the shot because I want to enjoy viewing the bird. I find it difficult to have these experiences in my yard. I really enjoy seeing many of the set up shots, including some of your posts, but it is usually pretty obvious what is a set up shot.
I wonder if it is down to ego , or just not wanting others to achieve better , similar results ?