I continue to be amazed at Nikon's new low noise sensor - incredible technology. One thing I've wondered about is performance at long shutter speeds. Have you tried any star trail shots?
30 sec, yup. Yup, really long exposures are possible, but you have to do it correctly in order to not get the noise. It is the exact same sensor/processor as the D3, just a lot cheaper. It will be interesting to see what Canon has to offer to balance the charge that Nikon has been doing, and will continue to do with their new 24mp body (the noise won't be nearly as good as with the D3/700, but still better than what Canon has now). And, of course, it is the LENSES that really make all of this possible - Canon has been left in the dust (and just wait until you see what Nikon has this fall). It is so funny to see Nikon lenses on an $8000 Canon camera...I'm sure Canon will rise again, but they probably won't be able to catch up for a while - 'tis the nature of the business, and is great for all of us!
It is really hard to tell much at this size but here is a version I shot at 6400 iso, 10 seconds. Probably most of you don't remember film, but for those that do, HOLY COW! Could you believe something like this would ever be possible?
If you are talking about the automatic in-camera reduction, yes and no. The long-exposure black-slide is on - ALWAYS for anything one second or longer on any camera (that is the one that takes a second exposure the same length as the first and subtracts any bad pixels that burn in during the second exposure from the first exposure) - but not the High ISO noise reduction, or any post noise work - I never touch either of those as they both produce soft images. I know a lot of folks live by Noise Ninja, Noiseware or some other software, but they will ALWAYS create soft images, no matter what the hype is. It is always best to shoot so that you don't have any noise to begin with (expose to the right), however up until the new Nikons came out it was impossible to get there with an image like this without major noise all over the place. I think it was Art Wolfe who said that we have now reached the holy grail in photography - the ability to create landscape images with pin-point stars (including many faint ones, not just the brightest) and no noise. And the best is still yet to come - once the new 1.4 lenses arrive this fall, oh my gosh...
Very cool Tim,
I'm going to have to play around with something like this too, but then I only have a dust covered junk canon body and the typical canon lens that one gets in the bottom of a box of Fruit Loops, so it's probably a waste of time.
On a serious note, I have only on occasion even took my iso above 100 and that was to only increase shutter speed not necessarily to shoot a night, but it would open up more photographic opportunities which is alway a plus.
I have read articles showing both Canon and Nikon with results from iso 12,000+ and Nikon has what they are labeling Hi-2 at iso 25,800 equivalents, which sounds to me like something next to a still shot producing night vision camera. Where will it stop? Like you said, it can only be good for all of us.
It does make me feel better knowing that you are successful and produce wonderful photographic imagery only because of a specific brand of equipment. Up until now I thought it had something to do with talent.
(hope you know i'm only kid'n)
I always appreciate your insights.
Brad
Posted by Wayne Rhodus on July 26, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Pretty amazing stuff Tim. I just can't get over seeing the milky way, not visable from my place. Thanks for sharing.
Yup, it certainly IS the brand that counts! I've got five different brands of cameras sitting on my desk right now that I use - have had something like 20 different systems over the years including just about every brand you can think of and probably some most folks have never heard of (except for Rollie - never liked them). I just laugh when someone asks what camera I use. Some applications do call for a different camera or lens though (such as these high iso images), but the brand on the front means nothing to me, and since I don't accept any freebies or discounts from the manufactures I am free to use whatever tool is best for the job. No one makes a perfect camera, so my tool chest has to have a lot of drawers...
The issue with these pin-point star photos is the fact that you can't do a very long exposure - the earth rotates too fast and in a few seconds the stars begin to streak. Crank up the iso to get a faster shutter speed and your noise gets really bad. Use a motorized equatorial mount that keeps up with the rotation of the earth and you will get pin-point stars, but everything else will move so you can't include anything on the ground in the photo. The new Nikon sensor, along with a fast lens that is terrific wide open, is the first combo to be able to produce this type of image. Certainly others will follow, but for now Nikon has the edge...
Could be just me but I have found the noise in the new Nikon sensor (at least up to ISO 1600) to add a film like quality in the final print. I don't do anything with it other than mask the sharping to the edges.
It's the 14-24. I only bought this camera to use for night shots and with that lens (either high iso or long exposures - just did a three-hour exposure this morning - amazing). Once the larger sensor version comes out this fall I may pick up a few more lenses, like the new Zeiss 18 (although the 14-24 just might even beat it), or the new Nikon 24 1.4, plus a few others. The noise performance of that sensor won't be able to match what we have now, but it will be better than the 1ds3, especially with all the great new Nikon and Zeiss glass coming out. I'll shoot most of the images in another new picture book that I'm doing this fall with the Phase One, but it will be great to have the ability to do some really nice night work, which the Phase can't do very well. I don't think I'll be upgrading to the P-65+ though - think I'll have enough pixels for awhile...
Posted by Aaron Szabo on August 2, 2008 at 11:00 PM
I've been playing around the d700... It is EXTREMELY clean up to 1600 iso, and with a 50mm 1.4 you could nearly catch a bullet coming out of a gun! INDOORS!! Canon is definitely behind on noise, screen resolution and their full-frame prices. The Nikkor 28 1.4 will be a blessing... people are selling the old Nikkor 28 1.4 AF for $3000.00 on ebay. I'd imagine the new Nikon high-res full frame to be about 24 megapixels and stunning for landscapes at ISO 100.
Posted by Aaron Szabo on August 2, 2008 at 11:03 PM
I wish that the heavens were my backyard...
Posted by Marc Langille on August 6, 2008 at 7:00 PM
Very nice for a snapshot!!!!
That's a cool photo Tim! The ISO 6400 is amazing - great detail, and quite clean! Of course, now I want one....
Discussion
15 repliesD700 snapshot at 6400 iso
I'm going to have to play around with something like this too, but then I only have a dust covered junk canon body and the typical canon lens that one gets in the bottom of a box of Fruit Loops, so it's probably a waste of time.
On a serious note, I have only on occasion even took my iso above 100 and that was to only increase shutter speed not necessarily to shoot a night, but it would open up more photographic opportunities which is alway a plus.
I have read articles showing both Canon and Nikon with results from iso 12,000+ and Nikon has what they are labeling Hi-2 at iso 25,800 equivalents, which sounds to me like something next to a still shot producing night vision camera. Where will it stop? Like you said, it can only be good for all of us.
It does make me feel better knowing that you are successful and produce wonderful photographic imagery only because of a specific brand of equipment. Up until now I thought it had something to do with talent.
(hope you know i'm only kid'n)
I always appreciate your insights.
Brad
The issue with these pin-point star photos is the fact that you can't do a very long exposure - the earth rotates too fast and in a few seconds the stars begin to streak. Crank up the iso to get a faster shutter speed and your noise gets really bad. Use a motorized equatorial mount that keeps up with the rotation of the earth and you will get pin-point stars, but everything else will move so you can't include anything on the ground in the photo. The new Nikon sensor, along with a fast lens that is terrific wide open, is the first combo to be able to produce this type of image. Certainly others will follow, but for now Nikon has the edge...
Great image. What lens did you use for this shot?
Could be just me but I have found the noise in the new Nikon sensor (at least up to ISO 1600) to add a film like quality in the final print. I don't do anything with it other than mask the sharping to the edges.
That's a cool photo Tim! The ISO 6400 is amazing - great detail, and quite clean! Of course, now I want one....
Regards,
Marc