Posted by Richard Ditch on August 16, 2008 at 1:53 AM
I just checked the Avian gallery and noted SEVEN sequential posts without comments.
That means that SIX people had time to post their own image but did not have time to comment on the image posted immediately before their own image. Even though there were ZERO comments posted on the image immediately before their own.
Come on, people. We can do better than this. If we expect to get feedback on our own images, then shouldn't we be willing to give at least one comment to an image that hasn't received any yet?
Very well said Richard I know everyone is busy but those that post I am sure had to have looked at a few of the other post while they were there.
Posted by Kah Kit Yoong on August 16, 2008 at 10:21 AM
If people have the time to process for the web and post a shot, they should have the time to make a few comments.
Posted by Linnet Long on August 16, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Good point. Often I view without commenting (partly because I'm a newbie). I'm working up a little more courage :-).
Posted by Peter Conway on August 16, 2008 at 1:11 PM
I agree with Richard's point about commenting. The forum only works if those that want comments also make them.
There are times when I want to get image out there and don't have time to comment. I do come back later during the day to then comment on others work. When I first came to NPN someone made the point that a nice ratio is 10 comments for every post made. I have tried to do better than that and it is not that hard. Some posters have a ratio that is extremely high and all of us are grateful for the time they take.
Peter
Posted by Carol Hyman on August 16, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Hear! Hear!
Richard, thanks for posting this topic. This is one of my frustrations with all of the galleries. Peter's point is well taken. The galleries and forums really work when there is an interplay between folks who post and folks who comment. Last week that happened in the Weekly Challenge; we had 60 + postings for the Reflections and while I didn't take time to count the comments, it was a very successful week.
Linnet, I would encourage you to just take a great big breath and dig in and comment on images. That's the best way in the world to both learn and sharpen your eye. The more comments you make, the easier it becomes ...
Now, let's all cross our fingers that folks both read this forum and take the commenting words to heart.
I agree-I always look forward to getting at least 1 comment when I post a pic., because I learn so much.
That said, I always post comments on other pics. ,even though I'm still learning, and even if it's a brief comment on comp. or lighting that I like.
Lisa
Posted by Mia McPherson on August 17, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Richard
Thanks for posting this, I have noticed what you mentioned in your post too. Any one can look at the images, but for those people who take the time to comment, I commend you.
For those of you who see an image without any comments and take the time to do so, my hat is off to you. (some thing that rarely happens!)
Making comments isn't just about giving kudos to the person, it ia also about showing them how to make the image better, helping them through your own experiences and enriching the NPN community.
I hope everyone knows that the more you critique other people's images, the more you will learn yourself.
Posted by Steve Foss on August 17, 2008 at 11:24 AM
I hope everyone knows that the more you critique other people's images, the more you will learn yourself.
I attribute the lack of comments partly to the fact that we're competing with Women's Olympic Volleyball this past week. Only so many hours in an evening.....
Posted by Richard Ditch on August 18, 2008 at 11:49 AM
My point is not about the general low volume of comments in Avian, or in any other forum including the Weekly Challenge or Photo Art & Series.
My point is that people will post an image of their own but not post a comment on the image immediately before their own post. If everyone made it standard procedure to comment on the nearest image without a comment already, then every image would receive at least one comment.
The example I cited that caused me to start this thread essentially went as follows:
Photographer #1 posted an image - call it #1.
Photographer #2 came along, posted #2, saw #1 without comment, and did not add a comment on #1.
Photographer #3 posted #3, and ignored #2 and #1 that still had no comments.
Photographer #4 posted #4, and ignored #3 and #2 and #1 that had no comments.
Photographer #5 posted #5, and ignored #4 and #3 and #2 and #1.
Photographer #6 posted #6, and ignored #5 and #4 and #3 and #2 and #1.
Photographer #7 posted #7, and ignored #6 and #5 and #4 and #3 and #2 and #1.
Photographers #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, and #7 had time to post their own images but clearly chose not to add even one comment on the image or images before their own. It has nothing to do with watching the Olympics or any other diversion; it has everything to do with fair play and being a part of a community.
Posted by Curtis Knight on August 26, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Unless you've gone into the entire history of those photographers to get thier overall comment to post ratio, your research is meaningless. In my overall history as an NPN member I'm sure I've probably commented on far more images than I've posted... but then I might be wrong... but whatever the case, I personally have more important things to do than keeping score on my fellow photographers.
I haven't been very active of late, but historically there have been times when I've commented without posting, I've posted without commenting, I've come in just to admire the images, and I've posted and commented in the same session.
I admire the folks who can comment on a 10:1 basis. I have no idea what my ratio is, and frankly, it doesn't matter. I don't keep score. I just participate at whatever level I am in the mood for because it's a hobby. If I start keeping score, my participation becomes a burden and takes all the fun out of it. and then I start getting annoyed with my fellow NPN members because they aren't commenting at a rate I approve of.
Richard, there is no way to say this in a diplomatic way so I'll just say it. The time you spent figuring out who posted what and what images they commented on, and then posting this thread, you could have spent commenting on images and saved yourself a lot of frustration.
I guess the same could be said for the time I spent formulating this reply.
Posted by Richard Ditch on August 26, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Richard, there is no way to say this in a diplomatic way so I'll just say it. The time you spent figuring out who posted what and what images they commented on, and then posting this thread, you could have spent commenting on images and saved yourself a lot of frustration
- Curtis
I have made a very simple point, and it took almost no time at all. Three was no need to "figure out who posted what and what images they commented on" because it was immediately obvious that at least seven people had not commented on the image posted immediately before their own because you could see there were ZERO replies to those images.
I didn't calculate anybody's ratios, or look at their posting history, or review who they had commented on in the future.
My detailed listing of 8/18 was made so that even the most non observant viewer at NPN could understand the very simple point of my 8/15 post that started this thread, but apparently that was still not sufficient for everyone to understand.
So, here is a visual example to clarify the point - a screen shot of the current Avian Gallery. What it shows is that Anthony Mak's kingfisher image was not commented on by the person who posted an image 14 minutes after Anthony posted his image. All I had to do was look at "Comments: 0" on Anthony's image, and see that the time stamp for the following image post was 14 minutes after Anthony had posted his shot. I didn't ned to review anyone's ratios or posting history to see that NO ONE had commented yet on Anthony's image.
So, now that I'm done responding to this interruption, I will return to the Avian gallery and comment on some more phots that have been ignored.
Posted by David Bostedo on August 26, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Richard - A couple of thoughts :
I doubt that I've ever bothered to comment on the image posted directly before mine, unless it happened to be an image I would have commented on anyway (which is at times because I notice one that hasn't been commented on yet, but has been posted for a while). I think the goal of getting a comment to every image is a good one, especially if we can get everyone to be a little more thoughtful. But I don't think that would happen if it were just a "rule" of some kind to comment on the image prior to yours. I have a feeling that you'd get even more quickie comments. That's why I, personally, like the idea of encouraging a posts-to-comments ratio instead, when you might be moved in some way to comment on some images but not others.
Posted by Pat Sampson on August 26, 2008 at 10:44 PM
I suppose in general, without having thought about it much, I treat commenting as I would any other optimization problem with constrained resources - my time being the principle resource. I comment so as to try and maximize the utility to me and the other photographer. Consequently, I rarely comment on images that already have many comments and I rarely comment to photographers that I consider to be very accomplished. In those cases It doesn't seem to me that my comment has much value.
However, I do also routinely watch for and comment to a group of folks that have reciprocated and who have provided comments to me that I've found particularly valuable. So yeah, a significant part of it is selfish.
And then in the last case there are those images that are just so striking, that I can't help but comment.
In any event, that's my process and it keeps me pretty much at my current post/comment ratio. The proximity of the images on a page relative to mine does of course influence my choices, as do the galleries I post in.
(I figured you all were curious about how I worked this out - smile)
Discussion
16 repliesThat means that SIX people had time to post their own image but did not have time to comment on the image posted immediately before their own image. Even though there were ZERO comments posted on the image immediately before their own.
Come on, people. We can do better than this. If we expect to get feedback on our own images, then shouldn't we be willing to give at least one comment to an image that hasn't received any yet?
There are times when I want to get image out there and don't have time to comment. I do come back later during the day to then comment on others work. When I first came to NPN someone made the point that a nice ratio is 10 comments for every post made. I have tried to do better than that and it is not that hard. Some posters have a ratio that is extremely high and all of us are grateful for the time they take.
Peter
Richard, thanks for posting this topic. This is one of my frustrations with all of the galleries. Peter's point is well taken. The galleries and forums really work when there is an interplay between folks who post and folks who comment. Last week that happened in the Weekly Challenge; we had 60 + postings for the Reflections and while I didn't take time to count the comments, it was a very successful week.
Linnet, I would encourage you to just take a great big breath and dig in and comment on images. That's the best way in the world to both learn and sharpen your eye. The more comments you make, the easier it becomes ...
Now, let's all cross our fingers that folks both read this forum and take the commenting words to heart.
Carol
That said, I always post comments on other pics. ,even though I'm still learning, and even if it's a brief comment on comp. or lighting that I like.
Lisa
Thanks for posting this, I have noticed what you mentioned in your post too. Any one can look at the images, but for those people who take the time to comment, I commend you.
For those of you who see an image without any comments and take the time to do so, my hat is off to you. (some thing that rarely happens!)
Making comments isn't just about giving kudos to the person, it ia also about showing them how to make the image better, helping them through your own experiences and enriching the NPN community.
I hope everyone knows that the more you critique other people's images, the more you will learn yourself.
Perfectly said.
Pete D.
My point is that people will post an image of their own but not post a comment on the image immediately before their own post. If everyone made it standard procedure to comment on the nearest image without a comment already, then every image would receive at least one comment.
The example I cited that caused me to start this thread essentially went as follows:
Photographer #1 posted an image - call it #1.
Photographer #2 came along, posted #2, saw #1 without comment, and did not add a comment on #1.
Photographer #3 posted #3, and ignored #2 and #1 that still had no comments.
Photographer #4 posted #4, and ignored #3 and #2 and #1 that had no comments.
Photographer #5 posted #5, and ignored #4 and #3 and #2 and #1.
Photographer #6 posted #6, and ignored #5 and #4 and #3 and #2 and #1.
Photographer #7 posted #7, and ignored #6 and #5 and #4 and #3 and #2 and #1.
Photographers #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, and #7 had time to post their own images but clearly chose not to add even one comment on the image or images before their own. It has nothing to do with watching the Olympics or any other diversion; it has everything to do with fair play and being a part of a community.
I haven't been very active of late, but historically there have been times when I've commented without posting, I've posted without commenting, I've come in just to admire the images, and I've posted and commented in the same session.
I admire the folks who can comment on a 10:1 basis. I have no idea what my ratio is, and frankly, it doesn't matter. I don't keep score. I just participate at whatever level I am in the mood for because it's a hobby. If I start keeping score, my participation becomes a burden and takes all the fun out of it. and then I start getting annoyed with my fellow NPN members because they aren't commenting at a rate I approve of.
Richard, there is no way to say this in a diplomatic way so I'll just say it. The time you spent figuring out who posted what and what images they commented on, and then posting this thread, you could have spent commenting on images and saved yourself a lot of frustration.
I guess the same could be said for the time I spent formulating this reply.
I have made a very simple point, and it took almost no time at all. Three was no need to "figure out who posted what and what images they commented on" because it was immediately obvious that at least seven people had not commented on the image posted immediately before their own because you could see there were ZERO replies to those images.
I didn't calculate anybody's ratios, or look at their posting history, or review who they had commented on in the future.
My detailed listing of 8/18 was made so that even the most non observant viewer at NPN could understand the very simple point of my 8/15 post that started this thread, but apparently that was still not sufficient for everyone to understand.
So, here is a visual example to clarify the point - a screen shot of the current Avian Gallery. What it shows is that Anthony Mak's kingfisher image was not commented on by the person who posted an image 14 minutes after Anthony posted his image. All I had to do was look at "Comments: 0" on Anthony's image, and see that the time stamp for the following image post was 14 minutes after Anthony had posted his shot. I didn't ned to review anyone's ratios or posting history to see that NO ONE had commented yet on Anthony's image.
So, now that I'm done responding to this interruption, I will return to the Avian gallery and comment on some more phots that have been ignored.
I doubt that I've ever bothered to comment on the image posted directly before mine, unless it happened to be an image I would have commented on anyway (which is at times because I notice one that hasn't been commented on yet, but has been posted for a while). I think the goal of getting a comment to every image is a good one, especially if we can get everyone to be a little more thoughtful. But I don't think that would happen if it were just a "rule" of some kind to comment on the image prior to yours. I have a feeling that you'd get even more quickie comments. That's why I, personally, like the idea of encouraging a posts-to-comments ratio instead, when you might be moved in some way to comment on some images but not others.
However, I do also routinely watch for and comment to a group of folks that have reciprocated and who have provided comments to me that I've found particularly valuable. So yeah, a significant part of it is selfish.
And then in the last case there are those images that are just so striking, that I can't help but comment.
In any event, that's my process and it keeps me pretty much at my current post/comment ratio. The proximity of the images on a page relative to mine does of course influence my choices, as do the galleries I post in.
(I figured you all were curious about how I worked this out - smile)