Posted by Kim Connolly on August 20, 2008 at 2:49 PM
A lot of hesitation about posting this one. I spent some hours trying to get Kingfisher in flight. They were probably a little to far away to attempt and I was facing the sun - except there wasn't any!!I would like to return and do a better job - so C and C would be very welcome.
Canon EOS 40d +400mmf5.6 (could have used converter but chose not tofor this type of shot)
F6.3
1/1250"
Ap Priority
Metering - Pattern
ISO 500
Sorry to be negative but I'm afraid this doesn't work for me at all. The action itself is great, but I'm assuming you've cut out both birds and their perches and stuck them onto the background.
The uppermost bird has still got very obvious traces of a much lighter background around the top of it's tail and by it's feet.
Also, neither bird looks particularly sharp and judging from the level of noise (again most obvious in the top bird) it appears they've either come from a huge crop or have been significantly lightened.
Posted by Kim Connolly on August 20, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Thank you for your comment but I have done virtually no editing and I certainly would not know how to cut out the birds and stick them onto a background. I am quite happy to put up the original if anybody else doubts the correctness of this picture.
Posted by Kim Connolly on August 20, 2008 at 4:19 PM
I have attached the original - I know it is not a good picture but that's why I put it up - for some help on taking pictures like this in poor light and some distance away.
Apologies for my incorrect assumption. It's where the background has been lightened that gave me the impression it may have been a composite.
Having now seen the original it looks like you've made a reasonible job of a tricky situation. I think one pointer in case you get a chance to re-shoot would be to try and get the exposure as near perfect as you can as it looks as though the bright water has fooled the meter into under-exposing the birds. Whilst exposure error can be corrected a fair amount during the raw conversion stage, if it's pushed too far it will unfortunately seriously degrade image quality by increasing any visible noise, unfortunately this will also be exagerated if having to crop the image a significant amount.
I'd set your camera up on the tripod, pre-focus on the perch, attach a cable release, take a quick shot before the birds arrive to ensure an optimum exposure, ideally with the histogram as far to the right as possible but without clipping the highlights. Then it's just a case of sitting back and waiting for the action and trying to release your shutter at the optimum moment.
It looks as though the scene is a little too far away for just a 400mm so may be worth fitting a 1.4X extender if you own one. Unfortunately the loss of one stop of light will have to be compensated for by upping the iso a bit.
A bright day will help keep your shutter speed sufficiently high enough to freeze any movement. If the light direction is wrong then perhaps it would be best to avoid direct sunlight but choose a bright but hazy day. A little fill in flash would be worth experimenting with too.
Hi Kim.
Kim i think you have done very well to try and improve this picture,i am sure when you posted this that you where doing your very best to make these lovely birds look better and i think you have achieved this,maybe just clone the lower branch out if you don't mind me saying so.
Regards Keith.
Posted by John Robinson on August 20, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Kim
I was just about to say I think you've made a picture out of a none starter. Its certainly not a paste job . Your lightening tool (or whatever you used )has maybe strayed a bit, but we all have to start somewhere. You could try a bigger surround which will make the birds appear a little sharper.
Looking again at the original I reckon its a good try.You may never see this again anyway !
Cheers
JohnR
Hello Kim, lots of good advice coming from Justin which I hope is received in the same spirit as it was intended, ie. constructive criticism (as with nearly all comments on this forum). I agree you have made a very good attempt at salvaging what does appear to be a very underexposed image. The action is great! Having had the same problem with a similar perch myself I'd add the advice of trying to alter your viewpoint a bit (if possible that is). At the top of the picture there appears to be an area of reflected vegetation, if you could get a lower viewpoint you may be able to include more of that which would get rid of a lot of the white water (which does tend to distort the meter readings a hell of a lot). At certain times of the day some perches just cannot deliver the goods.
I think with this one you will have to chalk it up to being a great action capture but lacking the overall quality to make it a great image 'per se'.
Posted by eric weight on August 21, 2008 at 1:21 AM
Hello Kim,
You have caught a great piece of action here and you have done the hardest part which is finding a perch within reach that they use. I would suggest that the perch is not all that attractive and you could improve that by setting up a better one close by in a more convenient spot or maybe cable tying something more attractive to the existing stump. A lower viewpoint would be good and then it is all down to waiting for a brighter day. I think the PP is a creditable attempt considering what you started with and I can only echo Justin's comments regarding exposure. Personally I would set the camera on Av with exposure compensation and waste shots all day long to confirm your settings while you are waiting for them to come back. Few shots look really good with bland water or sky Bgs, so distant vegetation as suggested by Robert would be a far better bet. Eric
Posted by Kim Connolly on August 21, 2008 at 4:42 AM
Hi everybody
Many thanks for the comments and advice on this pic. It is all very welcome. I agree it is nt brilliant as a piece of photography - it was just the action that pleased me. It was taken from a hide, and there is no way of getting into a better position from this particular site. Unfortunately it does look into the sun as well, although there was not any that day!! I tried various settings - moving the ISO and trying different aperture and exposure.. I came back with about 300 shots and quite honestly the great bulk were c....! Very disappointing and a little disheartening. Of course the light for a lot of this Summer in the North West of England has been poor. Another point, I am never too sure whether to use Spot, Al Servo or Al focus in this situation, I did vary them on this day, I also tried with the 1.4 convertor but the focussing was just a sploit second slower than without it and for action photographs thought I was better without. It was probably too far awy to get a decent shot!
Again, many many thanks for the comments.
Posted by Jeroen Stel on August 21, 2008 at 2:33 PM
Hi Kim,
As a great Kingfisher enthousiast i am allway pleased to see images with action going on between male and female like in this shot. I agree with all comments above and have been trying to get something more out of your shot by using Shadow/Highlight and some noise reduction. This was not easy as it was a very small image but i guess using the original would give you some much better results.
Greetings,
Jeroen Stel
Posted by Kim Connolly on August 21, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Hello Jeroen
Thank you so much for your trouble. Looks better than my efforts!! Am going back to the same site on Saturday - if it stops raining to see if I can do a better job!! I have a feeling they won't look anything like yours though!!
Discussion
11 repliesCanon EOS 40d +400mmf5.6 (could have used converter but chose not tofor this type of shot)
F6.3
1/1250"
Ap Priority
Metering - Pattern
ISO 500
The uppermost bird has still got very obvious traces of a much lighter background around the top of it's tail and by it's feet.
Also, neither bird looks particularly sharp and judging from the level of noise (again most obvious in the top bird) it appears they've either come from a huge crop or have been significantly lightened.
Apologies for my incorrect assumption. It's where the background has been lightened that gave me the impression it may have been a composite.
Having now seen the original it looks like you've made a reasonible job of a tricky situation. I think one pointer in case you get a chance to re-shoot would be to try and get the exposure as near perfect as you can as it looks as though the bright water has fooled the meter into under-exposing the birds. Whilst exposure error can be corrected a fair amount during the raw conversion stage, if it's pushed too far it will unfortunately seriously degrade image quality by increasing any visible noise, unfortunately this will also be exagerated if having to crop the image a significant amount.
I'd set your camera up on the tripod, pre-focus on the perch, attach a cable release, take a quick shot before the birds arrive to ensure an optimum exposure, ideally with the histogram as far to the right as possible but without clipping the highlights. Then it's just a case of sitting back and waiting for the action and trying to release your shutter at the optimum moment.
It looks as though the scene is a little too far away for just a 400mm so may be worth fitting a 1.4X extender if you own one. Unfortunately the loss of one stop of light will have to be compensated for by upping the iso a bit.
A bright day will help keep your shutter speed sufficiently high enough to freeze any movement. If the light direction is wrong then perhaps it would be best to avoid direct sunlight but choose a bright but hazy day. A little fill in flash would be worth experimenting with too.
Kim i think you have done very well to try and improve this picture,i am sure when you posted this that you where doing your very best to make these lovely birds look better and i think you have achieved this,maybe just clone the lower branch out if you don't mind me saying so.
Regards Keith.
I was just about to say I think you've made a picture out of a none starter. Its certainly not a paste job . Your lightening tool (or whatever you used )has maybe strayed a bit, but we all have to start somewhere. You could try a bigger surround which will make the birds appear a little sharper.
Looking again at the original I reckon its a good try.You may never see this again anyway !
Cheers
JohnR
I think with this one you will have to chalk it up to being a great action capture but lacking the overall quality to make it a great image 'per se'.
You have caught a great piece of action here and you have done the hardest part which is finding a perch within reach that they use. I would suggest that the perch is not all that attractive and you could improve that by setting up a better one close by in a more convenient spot or maybe cable tying something more attractive to the existing stump. A lower viewpoint would be good and then it is all down to waiting for a brighter day. I think the PP is a creditable attempt considering what you started with and I can only echo Justin's comments regarding exposure. Personally I would set the camera on Av with exposure compensation and waste shots all day long to confirm your settings while you are waiting for them to come back. Few shots look really good with bland water or sky Bgs, so distant vegetation as suggested by Robert would be a far better bet.
Many thanks for the comments and advice on this pic. It is all very welcome. I agree it is nt brilliant as a piece of photography - it was just the action that pleased me. It was taken from a hide, and there is no way of getting into a better position from this particular site. Unfortunately it does look into the sun as well, although there was not any that day!! I tried various settings - moving the ISO and trying different aperture and exposure.. I came back with about 300 shots and quite honestly the great bulk were c....! Very disappointing and a little disheartening. Of course the light for a lot of this Summer in the North West of England has been poor. Another point, I am never too sure whether to use Spot, Al Servo or Al focus in this situation, I did vary them on this day, I also tried with the 1.4 convertor but the focussing was just a sploit second slower than without it and for action photographs thought I was better without. It was probably too far awy to get a decent shot!
Again, many many thanks for the comments.
As a great Kingfisher enthousiast i am allway pleased to see images with action going on between male and female like in this shot. I agree with all comments above and have been trying to get something more out of your shot by using Shadow/Highlight and some noise reduction. This was not easy as it was a very small image but i guess using the original would give you some much better results.
Greetings,
Jeroen Stel
Thank you so much for your trouble. Looks better than my efforts!! Am going back to the same site on Saturday - if it stops raining to see if I can do a better job!! I have a feeling they won't look anything like yours though!!