I get asked from time to time how I turned my hobby of photography into a revenue stream. Wouldn't it be cool to make money doing what you love?
Well yes and no. When it's a hobby I'm the boss, the customer and the financial manager. I decide when to head out and shoot - or not. I decide if I want that Mount Rainier image matted and framed and hung in a prominent location in our home. When it's a hobby I call the shots.
When it's a business LOTS of other people and events can come into the game and force decisions. When it's a business the customer ALWAYS comes first as best as I can make it. Deadlines drive my daily life. I need to get 30 images printed/matted/framed by such and such date for that new gallery show we landed. But I ALSO have this other gig to do over here...
I guess the HOW I have done it has been first and foremost getting used to hearing "nice images, no thanks" when showing images to gallery owners/managers. Hearing NO can really suck. Hearing an upset customer on the phone sucks even more. Thankfully we've done a good job of avoiding that misery.
Get your work out there but be prepared for disappoint but be persistent! Eventually it starts to come together.
One side note - Nancy & I have branched out to high end real estate photography. Shooting nice homes for listings/marketing materials has proven to be worthwhile financially and fun to do! Limiting one's self to just nature/wildlife might not be the only solution.
I know several folks who have gone the art fair route and are doing well at it. I also know that that route is full of very hard work and takes a lot of time to learn which fairs are value added and which are not. Those who are successful are great with people and selling/closing a sale. Ya gotta be a people person and learn to smile even when the day sucks dirt!!
And last but not least - don't quit your day job until AFTER you make MORE than your day job!! I haven't quit my day job yet but that day is coming down the track real soon!! For now I am thrilled to get the checks in the mail that allow us to expand our business just a bit more!!
So if any others out there have some words of wisdom let's hear them!
Posted by Danny Laureys on August 21, 2008 at 6:48 PM
Hi rick,
I got one question, right now I live in SoCal, how did you get into real estate photography, i'm interested as a side job, did you just walk into a real estate office and showed them your pictures or did you go about it a different way? E-mail me if you want to
Posted by Nancy Lamb on August 22, 2008 at 1:02 AM
Hi folks.
Closing sales comes naturally once you've gained rapport, understood the needs and shown you can meet their needs. That is where I come in. Marketing, writing and prospecting is my thang! I get a hunch and follow it. Real estate photography has come by both chance and purpose. We talk to people when we meet them, always leaving the door open for later opportunities. For example, I met the Realtor at an open house near our home. I mentioned what we were doing and asked if we could shoot some samples in their house. Get this: She says that she was looking for a photographer because her regular guy didn't want to drive out here. The door has been opened. Our next step is to follow up with a practice shoot and show her samples and ask for future consideration.
An earlier shoot was earned by staying in touch with a company we talked with earlier. We see them every few months and this time, they were ready. We negotiated a price based on THEIR BUDGET, not our greed.
Its a GREAT topic. One thing Rick and I are doing is marketing. I do some copywriting and we approach realtors, stagers, and small businesses. Another income stream is lifestyle portraits for businesses. I sold an image to a local recreation company --- shot it at a kayaking event, called and said: You have to look at this image. The partner called and asked how much!
More later...Just know that if you really want it --- and WE DO --- you will find a way. Mark Hudon once said something to me about creating several income streams. We need our day jobs, but I'm finding more time to do some creative marketing. Nancy
Nancy PS: had me jumping up and down...
Networking is what Nancy is doing for us. She is ALWAYS seeking avenues to create contacts for new business. She ROCKS at doing that so all I have to do is nail the technicals behind the camera and behind our puters.
This is a great topic and I appreciate the information. As of right now I shoot only as a hobby and am doing what I can to build a portfolio as well as advance my skill and ability. I have made perhaps around $1,000 total with my photography and have put it right back into the hobby. The one mistake that I have made was granting a license for an image for a little too cheap, around $250, but it was for a grassroots company that also caters to going "green" with their products with the city of Portland being one of their main clients. It was an opportunity that came about at quite an early stage with my photography and I figured it was worth a shot to try and get my name and photos out there.
I am a tad more wise now and have a vision of where I want to be. It will be a long road but I have plenty of patience. I know that eventually I can make it all pay off with the hard work and dedication that I will be contributing to my craft. I would love to be able to do stuff like this for a living but I also realize that I cannot rely on it to pay the bills. I will probably always have some form of a day job as a backup, but of course that could always change depending on success or other circumstances too.
First and foremost, my goal is to put together a group of images that I feel are truly top notch and worthy of being displayed in a gallery or hung on a wall in someones home. I know I have a few images, but I also know I have lots of room for improvement and I will do what I can to improve as much as I possibly can. It's a little tough as I am completely self taught but I love the challenge and welcome it with open arms. The future excites me and I am confident that I have a future with photography as long as I play my cards right and make the right decisions as they come along.
Posted by Cezar Mart on August 22, 2008 at 3:21 AM
Thanks Nicholas for your post. I am in the same position as you, with the exception that I have made 5 times less money than you did :))) The lesson is that the patience is the answer - building skills, building portfolio, studying masters and, of course, taking pictures. Many of them.
Ansel Adams wrote that a measure of a successfull photographer is to make 10 good photographs a year. By "good photographs" he probably meant "good" by one's personal standards. I believe that trying to keep this pace will bring results sooner or later.
This is great timing. I've had done the least photography since I've had a camera this year (except for the kids) and really haven't had the time all in all (2 kids can really take away your time). What I look forward to is how everyone steps up from hobby to more serious stuff.
When I do have the time, it might be fun to add the real estate thing to the nature photos. My wife and I regularly mosey through houses in the area we pass when walking through. And we're in a pretty premiere spot in PDX (Irvington & Alameda). The houses are beautiful here.
So thanks all for letting us know how ya did it!
Kevin
Posted by Danny Laureys on August 22, 2008 at 2:20 PM
What a great topic - and thanks all of your for your posts and advice.
I have been really lucky in that as a young and fairly inexperienced photographer I got a book of killer whale photographs published ("Orca Encounters" - you can see it on Amazon.com). I'm making a little money off of it but certainly not enough to quit my day job.
When I've talked to many other hobbyist photographers who are looking to make some money, their reaction is always "Wow, you've got it made!!" My big question though is: what do I do now?! I'm ready and willing to put a lot of time into pursuing my photography career further, but I really don't know where I should be putting my efforts.
Posted by Adrian Klein on August 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM
Interesting topic. Well, I can say that I am officially a full time photographer as of this year. My goal was 2009 but a layoff forced me to do it this year. It's not easy and it's still early but so far it's working for us and I have a family to support. Only a small percentage of my business today is from my fine art landscape/stock work, although I am working on changing that. Most of our income is from weddings and portraits, which if that is not your thing then that is something to think about. I like weddings more and more as each summer season passes. I personally enjoy variety in photography. In fact this week I came from backpacking to Green Lakes the first few days, doing a bunch of sessions in a local park from seniors to families, and then some beach sessions tomorrow.
The best advice I can give is network with other businesses and photographers. This gives us much addtional business. And whether you do it as a hobby or pro, don't sell yourself short. Keep your print prices / digital files at decent level for your work, this will help you in the long run and not hurt the folks doing it full time today. I also have NO IDEA how I did my day job the last couple years and the photography business! I am very busy now but feel much happier in my business and personal life than I did working two jobs at a serious level. It's not easy but the work is out there, you just have to find it or help them find you!
Posted by Sean Bagshaw on August 25, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Thanks for starting this thread Rick. I'm coming in a little late after taking the weekend off from the computer. Outdoor photography can be a pretty nebulous business with no real concrete route to success, so sharing information on what has worked and not worked can be really helpful. I applaud your ambitious and diversified approach. Would this be a good topic for placement at the top of the PNWNP posts to keep it going?
I made the jump to full time about 4 years ago. I was able to get to a place financially in which I could make a five year business plan, giving myself that much time to "earn back" the salary I made as a middle school teacher. Things are looking pretty good so far and I expect to keep it going when I reach my 5 year mark next summer, but it is as challenging as everyone said it would be. I have many more years to go before I'll feel truly established.
For me it has been all about visibility, connections and multiple sources of revenue. I often spend way more time working on my website, blogging, answering emails, entering competitions, making contacts, submitting proposals, following leads and researching than I do photographing. I often wonder if I'm just spinning my wheels, but have noticed in the last year or two that this time is paying off. My portfolio isn't progressing quite as quickly as I would like, but in the business having a killer portfolio that no one has seen doesn't do much good.
When I first started I was taking any camera job that came along. That was good experience and it helped cover expenses early on. I'm now able to be more selective and focus on outdoor photography. I have done quite a bit of real estate photography as well, but have now transitioned most of that to shooting buildings for specific Architects, builders and interior designers.
It has been a slow curve, but I'm steadily increasing my outdoor photography revenue streams from a variety of sources. Building a large website has been the biggest factor in this effort. My site isn't as pretty or streamlined as I wish, but it does contain over 10,000 pages with lots of links and content and is growing all the time. It currently sees 3,000 to 8,000 visits per month depending on what stats you look at. The web visibility has brought a good amount of business and contacts from all around the country. In addition to the web I also try to do a couple of public exhibits a year, place my work in galleries, license my own stock, work with stock agencies and get representation from art consultants around the country. I also spend a good amount of time looking to sell collections to corporate office spaces and license images for use in large wall murals. When I can, I also publish in magazines and books and hope to eventually tap in to the poster and calendar market as well. As my number of new contacts and revenue streams grow and the revenue from established streams increases I can begin to see how this will snowball and provide a good income down the road.
Posted by Curtis Knight on August 25, 2008 at 5:48 PM
I've been keeping an eye on this thread and I'm enjoying reading all the ways folks have gotten into business.
I've decided that I want to wait until I'm ready to "retire" and use photography to supplement my income, rather than rely on it. I've thought about becoming a real full-time professional, but then I think about how much work it would be to build up to the point where I could quit my day job.
I tried a similar track once, when I was trying to become a full-time technical writer. I spent five years effectively working two jobs. And when the time came to make the jump (like Adrian, I got laid off) I couldn't make a go of it, unemployment almost ran out, and I was forced to return to engineering. Much of the reason I couldn't make a go of it, was the same reason I got laid off. The economy went in the toilet, and publishers were dumping projects like crazy. no one was hiring new-comers, not even freelance.
I was single back then, and I had no life. And I was a lot younger. Now I'm in my late 40's, I have a life, and a wonderful wife, whom I love spending time with. I've finally made it to a low-stress career that pays well and I enjoy what I'm doing. It took a long time, and lot of hard work to get here, I don't intend to give it up.
So for me, I have a unique opportunity to take a less stressful approach to professional photography. I'm going to spend the next 20 or so years honing my skills, building a library, and building a retirement income, and then I'll be able to do exactly what I want with my photography "career" and my hope is, that photography will bring a modest profit, and never become a burden.
Might be a pipe dream, but even if it is, I have the freedom to fail. And I like that!
I do envy you guys though. I wish I could just jump from my desk job and take pictures for a living, but I've got too many other people who depend on my reliable income, and I'm no longer ambitious enough to hold down a second job in order to make a career change.
Good luck to all of you, and I'll be watching for your published works and I'll point and say, "Hey! I know that guy! (sorta)"
Posted by Cezar Mart on August 26, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Curtis wrote:
> Might be a pipe dream, but even if it is, I have the freedom to fail. And I like that!
I love the attitude! That's exactly my way too!
This is a wonderful thread, and just the kind of dialogue I hoped I would find when I joined NPN a few months ago--thank you!
I have been a full-time photographer since April 2007 when I quit my job in health research to pursue photography and spend more time with my then one year-old son. It has been a tremendous 16 months and I love my work. I was able to plan and save for this period of building a business and I feel very fortunate to be able to take the time to build my portfolio and establish myself. I don't know what portion of my overall revenue photography will be 10 years down the road, but I am working hard to make it my ongoing full-time profession. I'm trying to be a realist but also reaching for my dreams.
One of the big lessons I've learned is that diversification is key. Most of my income is through fine-art sales (direct to customers and via galleries). But, I am doing more licensing of images for stock as my portfolio grows. I would like to grow that part of my business with time. Currently, I have my images on Digital Railroad for the licensing portion of my business. I am not sure if it is the best place for a nature photographer, but it allowed me to get my images out there to photo buyers without needing the thousands of images that stock agencies typically require to get in the door. In addition, I am producing a calendar this year and I continue to offer note cards (though I see them more as promotional items than income generators).
I am interested in breaking into the corporate market and have put out a few queries to try to get a foot hold. I hope to focus more attention on that arena in the next twelve months.
Like Rick and Nancy, networking has been hugely important to the success of my business. I do not have a massive mailing list, but I do have a growing number of very loyal folks who continually amaze me by connecting me with new clients. These folks do a better job of marketing my work than I do! I routinely photograph in the gardens of people who have purchased prints and enjoy the personal connection very much.
I can relate to Sean's comment that the business side takes a huge amount of time. I try to shoot three mornings per week plus one short trip (2-3 night) per month. After an early morning shoot, I get back to my office to edit and upload, then tend to the usual array of business duties. I spend a lot of time scouting out new opportunities, keeping up with my inventory, editing images, maintaining my website, corresponding with clients, and applying to new venues.
In terms of my portfolio, I am currently focusing my work on my "backyard" (meaning, the Pacific Northwest and Cape Cod, where I grew up and return to frequently). At some point, I will venture out, but it makes sense to me to be intimately familiar with my immediate geographic area. I enjoy shooting off the beaten path though I am not sure that is always a wise business decision (people will continue to seek out the iconic images of our region). I will probably end up with a balance of familiar and more remote imagery. Once a week or more, I will have this feeling, as I'm out shooting, that I am the luckiest person on the planet. It is a wonderfully refreshing feeling to love what I'm doing.
While I am a newbie, it has been a pleasure to view some of your work on this forum and to hear your stories. I look forward to more.
Posted by Jack Graham on August 31, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Good topic Rick!
Ditto to Sean's and others comments..... It's is always interesting to me how outsiders ( non photographers) think all we do is shoot, shoot, shoot. When I am not traveling, I'm in my office marketing to make some $. I sell a fair amount of prints but certainly not enough to live on. Making a living as a "nature photographer" is tough. Stock isn't paying what it was, and doing things like the real estate market, portraits are the only way I can see being a realistic way to develop income. Unless you know what you are doing , trying to market your own
calander can be costly.
I worked in corporate America for many years,while building up my business to a point that I can make a living from photography. My kids are grown & gone, and we have downsized a lot over the past years. Even still I still do some consulting work on a contractual basis for some folks in the field I worked in(consumer electronics).
80% of my income is from workshops. I do my own and many for other folks both in the USA and abroad. That's a the good news. The bad news is that I am gone a lot and I really don't get to shoot a lot when I do these workshops. I just finished editing my southwest images from last spring .I shot 36 frames in 4 days.
So before you quite your day job, take note of the difficulty that lays ahead to replace a decent paying job. However, if you can make a go of it, doing what we love certainly beats what lots of other folks are dealing with.
JG
Posted by Kosta Koeman on September 8, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Just received this link from a friend and thought I'd pass it on here:
Posted by GEOGAL55 on September 15, 2008 at 1:52 AM
I've been reading the replies on this topic with a great deal of interest. Like many of those posting, I have been working on my dream of becoming a full-time photographer and am starting to make pretty good headway toward that goal.
Currently, my Oregon images are being represented by Obsidian Stock based out of Bend, Oregon; I'm also waiting to hear from a couple other stock agencies regarding my other images (primarily Alaska) plus I've done some editorial photography, contests and fine art photography. I have a Natural Resources/Geology background and would like to get more involved in environmental photography so have been working on developing contacts and networking for that goal.
The hardest part for me has been trying to find my "niche" and also learning all the new digital procedures such as digital workflow, Photoshop, etc. (Yeah, I'm old school and only made the digital switch a couple years ago!) LOL!
Living here in Central Oregon (Redmond) is a mecca for photography - opportunities are everywhere for great images. It's just knowing what to do with them to bring in some $$$ that can be the tough part. I've started taking a couple portfolios around to various offices in town and have been doing pretty well with that, plus I've been offered a one woman show at a local day spa and will be the featured artist at one of the Bend Art Walks. That will really be exciting - I just have to decide which images to put on display!
Thanks to all who are posting on this thread about working as a photographer - it's great to hear from others also pursuing this dream. (By the way, I haven't quit my day job - I still work as an on-call Initial Attack Fire/Aircraft Dispatcher for the federal government and travel all over the US from May to October)
Wow, this is a great thread and hits so close to home.
Like so many of us, I am also trying to go professional, but boy, you really have to be passionate, tenacious and full of stamina to make it.
I am driven by a deep burning fire to leave my 9 to 5 mundane and to me meaningless life of going to work, bringing in the money and spending it on the weekends so that I can build my white picket fence and feed my 1.5 dogs. I watch advertisements trying to entice millions to buy a specific car so that they can be different and express their individuality???? In the mornings I sit in front of my work computer and am fully aware of the beautiful day and world that I am missing out on every day and ask myself, what am I doing here? I look at the people around me, and observe the silly office politics and rather unimportant issues that upset them and occupy their life, and mine too!!! Is this all there is to life? It can't be! It makes me feel distressingly empty and quite sad.
The only time I feel inner peace and meaning is when I am out there in the mornings, barely awake after 5 hours of sleep, sipping on my cup of coffee, breathing in the amazing morning air, deeply touched and elated by what unfolds in front of my eyes.
I am working two jobs right now - my day job,and photography. I shoot almost exclusively landscapes, and a little bit of travel. My image portfolio now is large enough, and of sufficient quality, for me to begin marketing my work. As so many of you have mentioned, the reality of the photography business is the many hours you have to spend meeting deadlines, getting ready for exhibitions and chasing down potential clients.
I have just finished getting ready for an exhibition, and it took me almost three weeks to get the prints the way I want them - true I am on a learning curve, and I hope this will go faster in the future, but I can see how much work even an exhibition can be. I expect to sell a couple of images, and I can see how difficult it will be to make a living.
Since I have limited time, I am trying to prioritize the lanes of marketing I am pursuing. This is my list, in order of priority:
1) Magazine submissions - editorials and "showcase images"
2) Sign up with a serious, high quality stock photography business
3) Sign up with internet art galleries
4) Photography competitions
5) Gallery exhibitions and art fairs
6) Calendar submissions
7) Target travel agencies
8) Look for commissioned photography opportunities
9) Offer photography workshops
10) Expand my website to include my own stock collection and add blog capabilities
11) Increase internet presence through blogging, photo critique forums, buy search engine priorities
12) Organize international photo tours
It is so much work, and currently I am mostly working on the business rather than taking images.I can also see that it will take a long time for the money to come in and allow me to make a living. For example, I got a lot of wonderful feedback from people viewing my images at my current exhibition, but nobody was prepared to buy anything. There appears to be a serious barrier for people to buy a photograph instead of a painting, even though they may be deeply impressed by the image. For that reason I see magazine submissions as the way to go - they are also a lot less work.
I am hoping to be able to slowly phase out of my day job and possibly quit the job altogether, taking up smaller odd jobs to supplement the photography income. When I do that I am definitely moving to the west coast or the rockies!!
Photography is by no means an easy means of making an income. I think one of the biggest challenges is to overcome disappointments and to keep slugging way, in the hope of one day making it.
As Curtis put it so beautifully: "Might be a pipe dream, but even if it is, I have the freedom to fail."
Posted by Richard Wong on September 28, 2008 at 3:27 AM
I can relate to you Christoph. I pursued a career in advertising starting about eight years ago when I was in a much different place in my life. In the years since, I kept hearing the same lines over and over again from people when giving career advice. "Be passionate about creating advertising otherwise get out!" "I've never known any successful creative that didn't give some years of his life to this business." "Don't worry about money. Just eat, sleep and breathe your work."
After working for a couple years I just felt empty and noticed that it was more fun to stare out the window and think about what I really wanted to do in life. Now for the first time in my adult life, I can look at advertising in the rear view mirror and move forward with doing things that support my personal goals. I don't think I could have gotten to this level of understanding about myself without having gone through these experiences though. We all need something to light a fire under our ass and oftentimes it is recognizing the need for a career change.
Posted by Nancy Lamb on December 8, 2008 at 10:24 AM
An update from the Ramblin Lamb team....we are continuing to grow. We've built slowly, and mostly by talking with people and asking them to think of us. Rick put a file of favorite and varied images on his Iphone, and finds all kinds of ways to show a mini portfolio to people. I hear all kinds of great comments. A B&B in Port Townsend wants us to reshoot their rooms and also wants to buy some images for a couple of the rooms. We were there. We were talking about what we love...that was all.
I agree with Richard W about the dead soul sales type stuff. I got out of sales a long time ago for the same reasons, but now I find that selling our photography or my freelance writing is fun and creative. Losing my day job last summer pushed me into the marketing role for our fledling businesss. That said, intention seems to be half the effort.
Now, we are thinking of supporting other business with a different view. We can set our pricing related to what works for the customer. And we maintain the license and the right to use shots for our own advertising. Some will surely be free. We are getting our name out there easily.
The kayaking groups are great for that. Our friend called and said: Hey - I've got a new line of sunglesses. We've got 2 paid photo ops coming up. Are you interested?
How easy is that once you are in the right network? This is easy advertising for us because it is another passion for us. Like all other sales for me, I'm already passionate about it, so its a natural to work with the reps in the field. We have aready have a common bond. How else coudl I have sat in the safety boat getting rocked and rolled al over the place with a big fat smile on my face. A photographer out on the boat who didn't love it would have been sea sick. Not me, man.
Summing up, for me all this success is about following my passion and finding markets where they share a similar passion. It is easy talking to people in fields that I know, want to know about, or am crazy about. I can do that.
Posted by Mike Fisher on December 30, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Hi,
This is a very timely interesting topic for me as I am at a point where I am now considering going full time into photography specializing in Real Estate. The Real Estate aspect has been my career in corporate retail real estate which is in a coma at this point which is causing the career change.
I enjoy all the post especially the insights into changing careers.
Posted by Mike Fisher on December 30, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Hi,
This is a very timely interesting topic for me as I am at a point where I am now considering going full time into photography specializing in Real Estate. The Real Estate aspect has been my career in corporate retail real estate which is in a coma at this point which is causing the career change.
I enjoy all the post especially the insights into changing careers.
Posted by Rakesh Malik on January 29, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Same here... I'm working on it myself. My last few IT jobs have been so intellectually under-stimulating that I've basically given up job satisfaction unless I create my own. Since I love photographing the landscapes that I love to hike in, I figure that's a good way to go about getting started.
I'm just getting started on this, only getting my first show up earlier this month. It's gotten quite a bit of positive feedback, but no sales so far.
My hope is to differentiate myself by both shooting in out of the way places that are less well known, and also by producing prints with far more detail than most landscape photographers these days can approach, let alone match (by using 4x5). It means that I have to carry a lot more stuff when hiking, and I have to have more creativity, but that's ok because it makes the whole process more fun. Well, the 60-pound pack isn't as fun, but it's great for keeping fit!
Posted by Michael Mayo on March 8, 2009 at 4:42 PM
I took two loves and combined them in to a fun and somewhat profitable side-job. While I am in no position to give up my day job, I do this only on the weekends and will probably expand in the next year or two. I of course love photography, and my second love is dogs, actually all animals but especially dogs.
I go to a different dog park every weekend and shoot these wonderful creatures doing what they do best run and play. I started doing this just for myself, but quickly saw this could be profitable. I shoot between 300 to 500 images each 2-3 hour visit, and hand out my card to the dog owners. Most are very excited about this. I put the images on an online gallery which they can purchase from. Many of the dog owners have scheduled private photo sessions afterward.
I make my rounds to the tri-county area parks, and it takes me a few months to hit them all, but what a great time I have doing it.
I told my wife if I could perfect this business, after we retire, we could buy an RV and tour the country and visit dog parks.
I was recently let go from my job of over 4 years. I'm in a dilemma right now because I am actively seeking work, but on the other hand people are bugging me to try and make my photography happen. Problem with that is I don't know the first thing about marketing myself, my work, nor am I sure whether or not any of the images I have are marketable, good candidates for licensing, etc.
I haven't been able to get out as much lately due to health issues again, and now that I am stable and unemployed, the cash flow is definitely a big case of the worries for me. Another thing that will definitely hold me back is some equipment failure that I had on a speedlight that was barely over a year old with perhaps no more than 100-200 pops. That was an expensive loss and the cost to repair it will probably exceed what I have in terms of petty cash, but that petty cash is currently on hold and watch to be on the safe side.
The only real satisfaction I have had in a job was with my last one, other ones have left me desiring a lot more. When I am out with my camera, nothing matters and I am able to relax but at the same time I just have no idea where to start and how to approach it. It's horrible when you have dedicated your life to one skill set, find another that you can grow with, and unexpected things happen making it difficult to use that skill set because everyone is out there fighting for the same work.
I've only licensed one photo about 2 years ago to a gentleman who works for a local company that has worked with the city and also has a strong stance on being green. That was just a chance thing sharing photos on a Mustang forum with other enthusiasts. If anyone may have some recommendations or perhaps places to start, I'd really love to try and kick my photography into a higher gear but realistically I am expecting another day job without satisfaction lol.
Discussion
25 repliesWell yes and no. When it's a hobby I'm the boss, the customer and the financial manager. I decide when to head out and shoot - or not. I decide if I want that Mount Rainier image matted and framed and hung in a prominent location in our home. When it's a hobby I call the shots.
When it's a business LOTS of other people and events can come into the game and force decisions. When it's a business the customer ALWAYS comes first as best as I can make it. Deadlines drive my daily life. I need to get 30 images printed/matted/framed by such and such date for that new gallery show we landed. But I ALSO have this other gig to do over here...
I guess the HOW I have done it has been first and foremost getting used to hearing "nice images, no thanks" when showing images to gallery owners/managers. Hearing NO can really suck. Hearing an upset customer on the phone sucks even more. Thankfully we've done a good job of avoiding that misery.
Get your work out there but be prepared for disappoint but be persistent! Eventually it starts to come together.
One side note - Nancy & I have branched out to high end real estate photography. Shooting nice homes for listings/marketing materials has proven to be worthwhile financially and fun to do! Limiting one's self to just nature/wildlife might not be the only solution.
I know several folks who have gone the art fair route and are doing well at it. I also know that that route is full of very hard work and takes a lot of time to learn which fairs are value added and which are not. Those who are successful are great with people and selling/closing a sale. Ya gotta be a people person and learn to smile even when the day sucks dirt!!
And last but not least - don't quit your day job until AFTER you make MORE than your day job!! I haven't quit my day job yet but that day is coming down the track real soon!! For now I am thrilled to get the checks in the mail that allow us to expand our business just a bit more!!
So if any others out there have some words of wisdom let's hear them!
I got one question, right now I live in SoCal, how did you get into real estate photography, i'm interested as a side job, did you just walk into a real estate office and showed them your pictures or did you go about it a different way? E-mail me if you want to
Closing sales comes naturally once you've gained rapport, understood the needs and shown you can meet their needs. That is where I come in. Marketing, writing and prospecting is my thang! I get a hunch and follow it. Real estate photography has come by both chance and purpose. We talk to people when we meet them, always leaving the door open for later opportunities. For example, I met the Realtor at an open house near our home. I mentioned what we were doing and asked if we could shoot some samples in their house. Get this: She says that she was looking for a photographer because her regular guy didn't want to drive out here. The door has been opened. Our next step is to follow up with a practice shoot and show her samples and ask for future consideration.
An earlier shoot was earned by staying in touch with a company we talked with earlier. We see them every few months and this time, they were ready. We negotiated a price based on THEIR BUDGET, not our greed.
Its a GREAT topic. One thing Rick and I are doing is marketing. I do some copywriting and we approach realtors, stagers, and small businesses. Another income stream is lifestyle portraits for businesses. I sold an image to a local recreation company --- shot it at a kayaking event, called and said: You have to look at this image. The partner called and asked how much!
More later...Just know that if you really want it --- and WE DO --- you will find a way. Mark Hudon once said something to me about creating several income streams. We need our day jobs, but I'm finding more time to do some creative marketing. Nancy
Nancy
I am a tad more wise now and have a vision of where I want to be. It will be a long road but I have plenty of patience. I know that eventually I can make it all pay off with the hard work and dedication that I will be contributing to my craft. I would love to be able to do stuff like this for a living but I also realize that I cannot rely on it to pay the bills. I will probably always have some form of a day job as a backup, but of course that could always change depending on success or other circumstances too.
First and foremost, my goal is to put together a group of images that I feel are truly top notch and worthy of being displayed in a gallery or hung on a wall in someones home. I know I have a few images, but I also know I have lots of room for improvement and I will do what I can to improve as much as I possibly can. It's a little tough as I am completely self taught but I love the challenge and welcome it with open arms. The future excites me and I am confident that I have a future with photography as long as I play my cards right and make the right decisions as they come along.
Ansel Adams wrote that a measure of a successfull photographer is to make 10 good photographs a year. By "good photographs" he probably meant "good" by one's personal standards. I believe that trying to keep this pace will bring results sooner or later.
When I do have the time, it might be fun to add the real estate thing to the nature photos. My wife and I regularly mosey through houses in the area we pass when walking through. And we're in a pretty premiere spot in PDX (Irvington & Alameda). The houses are beautiful here.
So thanks all for letting us know how ya did it!
Kevin
I have been really lucky in that as a young and fairly inexperienced photographer I got a book of killer whale photographs published ("Orca Encounters" - you can see it on Amazon.com). I'm making a little money off of it but certainly not enough to quit my day job.
When I've talked to many other hobbyist photographers who are looking to make some money, their reaction is always "Wow, you've got it made!!" My big question though is: what do I do now?! I'm ready and willing to put a lot of time into pursuing my photography career further, but I really don't know where I should be putting my efforts.
The best advice I can give is network with other businesses and photographers. This gives us much addtional business. And whether you do it as a hobby or pro, don't sell yourself short. Keep your print prices / digital files at decent level for your work, this will help you in the long run and not hurt the folks doing it full time today. I also have NO IDEA how I did my day job the last couple years and the photography business! I am very busy now but feel much happier in my business and personal life than I did working two jobs at a serious level. It's not easy but the work is out there, you just have to find it or help them find you!
I made the jump to full time about 4 years ago. I was able to get to a place financially in which I could make a five year business plan, giving myself that much time to "earn back" the salary I made as a middle school teacher. Things are looking pretty good so far and I expect to keep it going when I reach my 5 year mark next summer, but it is as challenging as everyone said it would be. I have many more years to go before I'll feel truly established.
For me it has been all about visibility, connections and multiple sources of revenue. I often spend way more time working on my website, blogging, answering emails, entering competitions, making contacts, submitting proposals, following leads and researching than I do photographing. I often wonder if I'm just spinning my wheels, but have noticed in the last year or two that this time is paying off. My portfolio isn't progressing quite as quickly as I would like, but in the business having a killer portfolio that no one has seen doesn't do much good.
When I first started I was taking any camera job that came along. That was good experience and it helped cover expenses early on. I'm now able to be more selective and focus on outdoor photography. I have done quite a bit of real estate photography as well, but have now transitioned most of that to shooting buildings for specific Architects, builders and interior designers.
It has been a slow curve, but I'm steadily increasing my outdoor photography revenue streams from a variety of sources. Building a large website has been the biggest factor in this effort. My site isn't as pretty or streamlined as I wish, but it does contain over 10,000 pages with lots of links and content and is growing all the time. It currently sees 3,000 to 8,000 visits per month depending on what stats you look at. The web visibility has brought a good amount of business and contacts from all around the country. In addition to the web I also try to do a couple of public exhibits a year, place my work in galleries, license my own stock, work with stock agencies and get representation from art consultants around the country. I also spend a good amount of time looking to sell collections to corporate office spaces and license images for use in large wall murals. When I can, I also publish in magazines and books and hope to eventually tap in to the poster and calendar market as well. As my number of new contacts and revenue streams grow and the revenue from established streams increases I can begin to see how this will snowball and provide a good income down the road.
I've decided that I want to wait until I'm ready to "retire" and use photography to supplement my income, rather than rely on it. I've thought about becoming a real full-time professional, but then I think about how much work it would be to build up to the point where I could quit my day job.
I tried a similar track once, when I was trying to become a full-time technical writer. I spent five years effectively working two jobs. And when the time came to make the jump (like Adrian, I got laid off) I couldn't make a go of it, unemployment almost ran out, and I was forced to return to engineering. Much of the reason I couldn't make a go of it, was the same reason I got laid off. The economy went in the toilet, and publishers were dumping projects like crazy. no one was hiring new-comers, not even freelance.
I was single back then, and I had no life. And I was a lot younger. Now I'm in my late 40's, I have a life, and a wonderful wife, whom I love spending time with. I've finally made it to a low-stress career that pays well and I enjoy what I'm doing. It took a long time, and lot of hard work to get here, I don't intend to give it up.
So for me, I have a unique opportunity to take a less stressful approach to professional photography. I'm going to spend the next 20 or so years honing my skills, building a library, and building a retirement income, and then I'll be able to do exactly what I want with my photography "career" and my hope is, that photography will bring a modest profit, and never become a burden.
Might be a pipe dream, but even if it is, I have the freedom to fail. And I like that!
I do envy you guys though. I wish I could just jump from my desk job and take pictures for a living, but I've got too many other people who depend on my reliable income, and I'm no longer ambitious enough to hold down a second job in order to make a career change.
Good luck to all of you, and I'll be watching for your published works and I'll point and say, "Hey! I know that guy! (sorta)"
> Might be a pipe dream, but even if it is, I have the freedom to fail. And I like that!
I love the attitude! That's exactly my way too!
I have been a full-time photographer since April 2007 when I quit my job in health research to pursue photography and spend more time with my then one year-old son. It has been a tremendous 16 months and I love my work. I was able to plan and save for this period of building a business and I feel very fortunate to be able to take the time to build my portfolio and establish myself. I don't know what portion of my overall revenue photography will be 10 years down the road, but I am working hard to make it my ongoing full-time profession. I'm trying to be a realist but also reaching for my dreams.
One of the big lessons I've learned is that diversification is key. Most of my income is through fine-art sales (direct to customers and via galleries). But, I am doing more licensing of images for stock as my portfolio grows. I would like to grow that part of my business with time. Currently, I have my images on Digital Railroad for the licensing portion of my business. I am not sure if it is the best place for a nature photographer, but it allowed me to get my images out there to photo buyers without needing the thousands of images that stock agencies typically require to get in the door. In addition, I am producing a calendar this year and I continue to offer note cards (though I see them more as promotional items than income generators).
I am interested in breaking into the corporate market and have put out a few queries to try to get a foot hold. I hope to focus more attention on that arena in the next twelve months.
Like Rick and Nancy, networking has been hugely important to the success of my business. I do not have a massive mailing list, but I do have a growing number of very loyal folks who continually amaze me by connecting me with new clients. These folks do a better job of marketing my work than I do! I routinely photograph in the gardens of people who have purchased prints and enjoy the personal connection very much.
I can relate to Sean's comment that the business side takes a huge amount of time. I try to shoot three mornings per week plus one short trip (2-3 night) per month. After an early morning shoot, I get back to my office to edit and upload, then tend to the usual array of business duties. I spend a lot of time scouting out new opportunities, keeping up with my inventory, editing images, maintaining my website, corresponding with clients, and applying to new venues.
In terms of my portfolio, I am currently focusing my work on my "backyard" (meaning, the Pacific Northwest and Cape Cod, where I grew up and return to frequently). At some point, I will venture out, but it makes sense to me to be intimately familiar with my immediate geographic area. I enjoy shooting off the beaten path though I am not sure that is always a wise business decision (people will continue to seek out the iconic images of our region). I will probably end up with a balance of familiar and more remote imagery. Once a week or more, I will have this feeling, as I'm out shooting, that I am the luckiest person on the planet. It is a wonderfully refreshing feeling to love what I'm doing.
While I am a newbie, it has been a pleasure to view some of your work on this forum and to hear your stories. I look forward to more.
Ditto to Sean's and others comments..... It's is always interesting to me how outsiders ( non photographers) think all we do is shoot, shoot, shoot. When I am not traveling, I'm in my office marketing to make some $. I sell a fair amount of prints but certainly not enough to live on. Making a living as a "nature photographer" is tough. Stock isn't paying what it was, and doing things like the real estate market, portraits are the only way I can see being a realistic way to develop income. Unless you know what you are doing , trying to market your own
calander can be costly.
I worked in corporate America for many years,while building up my business to a point that I can make a living from photography. My kids are grown & gone, and we have downsized a lot over the past years. Even still I still do some consulting work on a contractual basis for some folks in the field I worked in(consumer electronics).
80% of my income is from workshops. I do my own and many for other folks both in the USA and abroad. That's a the good news. The bad news is that I am gone a lot and I really don't get to shoot a lot when I do these workshops. I just finished editing my southwest images from last spring .I shot 36 frames in 4 days.
So before you quite your day job, take note of the difficulty that lays ahead to replace a decent paying job. However, if you can make a go of it, doing what we love certainly beats what lots of other folks are dealing with.
JG
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10035393-52.html?tag=blogFeed
Currently, my Oregon images are being represented by Obsidian Stock based out of Bend, Oregon; I'm also waiting to hear from a couple other stock agencies regarding my other images (primarily Alaska) plus I've done some editorial photography, contests and fine art photography. I have a Natural Resources/Geology background and would like to get more involved in environmental photography so have been working on developing contacts and networking for that goal.
The hardest part for me has been trying to find my "niche" and also learning all the new digital procedures such as digital workflow, Photoshop, etc. (Yeah, I'm old school and only made the digital switch a couple years ago!) LOL!
Living here in Central Oregon (Redmond) is a mecca for photography - opportunities are everywhere for great images. It's just knowing what to do with them to bring in some $$$ that can be the tough part. I've started taking a couple portfolios around to various offices in town and have been doing pretty well with that, plus I've been offered a one woman show at a local day spa and will be the featured artist at one of the Bend Art Walks. That will really be exciting - I just have to decide which images to put on display!
Thanks to all who are posting on this thread about working as a photographer - it's great to hear from others also pursuing this dream. (By the way, I haven't quit my day job - I still work as an on-call Initial Attack Fire/Aircraft Dispatcher for the federal government and travel all over the US from May to October)
..Marcy Ugstad
Redmond, Oregon
www.highcascadesphotography.com
Like so many of us, I am also trying to go professional, but boy, you really have to be passionate, tenacious and full of stamina to make it.
I am driven by a deep burning fire to leave my 9 to 5 mundane and to me meaningless life of going to work, bringing in the money and spending it on the weekends so that I can build my white picket fence and feed my 1.5 dogs. I watch advertisements trying to entice millions to buy a specific car so that they can be different and express their individuality???? In the mornings I sit in front of my work computer and am fully aware of the beautiful day and world that I am missing out on every day and ask myself, what am I doing here? I look at the people around me, and observe the silly office politics and rather unimportant issues that upset them and occupy their life, and mine too!!! Is this all there is to life? It can't be! It makes me feel distressingly empty and quite sad.
The only time I feel inner peace and meaning is when I am out there in the mornings, barely awake after 5 hours of sleep, sipping on my cup of coffee, breathing in the amazing morning air, deeply touched and elated by what unfolds in front of my eyes.
I am working two jobs right now - my day job,and photography. I shoot almost exclusively landscapes, and a little bit of travel. My image portfolio now is large enough, and of sufficient quality, for me to begin marketing my work. As so many of you have mentioned, the reality of the photography business is the many hours you have to spend meeting deadlines, getting ready for exhibitions and chasing down potential clients.
I have just finished getting ready for an exhibition, and it took me almost three weeks to get the prints the way I want them - true I am on a learning curve, and I hope this will go faster in the future, but I can see how much work even an exhibition can be. I expect to sell a couple of images, and I can see how difficult it will be to make a living.
Since I have limited time, I am trying to prioritize the lanes of marketing I am pursuing. This is my list, in order of priority:
1) Magazine submissions - editorials and "showcase images"
2) Sign up with a serious, high quality stock photography business
3) Sign up with internet art galleries
4) Photography competitions
5) Gallery exhibitions and art fairs
6) Calendar submissions
7) Target travel agencies
8) Look for commissioned photography opportunities
9) Offer photography workshops
10) Expand my website to include my own stock collection and add blog capabilities
11) Increase internet presence through blogging, photo critique forums, buy search engine priorities
12) Organize international photo tours
It is so much work, and currently I am mostly working on the business rather than taking images.I can also see that it will take a long time for the money to come in and allow me to make a living. For example, I got a lot of wonderful feedback from people viewing my images at my current exhibition, but nobody was prepared to buy anything. There appears to be a serious barrier for people to buy a photograph instead of a painting, even though they may be deeply impressed by the image. For that reason I see magazine submissions as the way to go - they are also a lot less work.
I am hoping to be able to slowly phase out of my day job and possibly quit the job altogether, taking up smaller odd jobs to supplement the photography income. When I do that I am definitely moving to the west coast or the rockies!!
Photography is by no means an easy means of making an income. I think one of the biggest challenges is to overcome disappointments and to keep slugging way, in the hope of one day making it.
As Curtis put it so beautifully: "Might be a pipe dream, but even if it is, I have the freedom to fail."
After working for a couple years I just felt empty and noticed that it was more fun to stare out the window and think about what I really wanted to do in life. Now for the first time in my adult life, I can look at advertising in the rear view mirror and move forward with doing things that support my personal goals. I don't think I could have gotten to this level of understanding about myself without having gone through these experiences though. We all need something to light a fire under our ass and oftentimes it is recognizing the need for a career change.
I agree with Richard W about the dead soul sales type stuff. I got out of sales a long time ago for the same reasons, but now I find that selling our photography or my freelance writing is fun and creative. Losing my day job last summer pushed me into the marketing role for our fledling businesss. That said, intention seems to be half the effort.
Now, we are thinking of supporting other business with a different view. We can set our pricing related to what works for the customer. And we maintain the license and the right to use shots for our own advertising. Some will surely be free. We are getting our name out there easily.
The kayaking groups are great for that. Our friend called and said: Hey - I've got a new line of sunglesses. We've got 2 paid photo ops coming up. Are you interested?
How easy is that once you are in the right network? This is easy advertising for us because it is another passion for us. Like all other sales for me, I'm already passionate about it, so its a natural to work with the reps in the field. We have aready have a common bond. How else coudl I have sat in the safety boat getting rocked and rolled al over the place with a big fat smile on my face. A photographer out on the boat who didn't love it would have been sea sick. Not me, man.
Summing up, for me all this success is about following my passion and finding markets where they share a similar passion. It is easy talking to people in fields that I know, want to know about, or am crazy about. I can do that.
This is a very timely interesting topic for me as I am at a point where I am now considering going full time into photography specializing in Real Estate. The Real Estate aspect has been my career in corporate retail real estate which is in a coma at this point which is causing the career change.
I enjoy all the post especially the insights into changing careers.
This is a very timely interesting topic for me as I am at a point where I am now considering going full time into photography specializing in Real Estate. The Real Estate aspect has been my career in corporate retail real estate which is in a coma at this point which is causing the career change.
I enjoy all the post especially the insights into changing careers.
I'm just getting started on this, only getting my first show up earlier this month. It's gotten quite a bit of positive feedback, but no sales so far.
My hope is to differentiate myself by both shooting in out of the way places that are less well known, and also by producing prints with far more detail than most landscape photographers these days can approach, let alone match (by using 4x5). It means that I have to carry a lot more stuff when hiking, and I have to have more creativity, but that's ok because it makes the whole process more fun. Well, the 60-pound pack isn't as fun, but it's great for keeping fit!
I go to a different dog park every weekend and shoot these wonderful creatures doing what they do best run and play. I started doing this just for myself, but quickly saw this could be profitable. I shoot between 300 to 500 images each 2-3 hour visit, and hand out my card to the dog owners. Most are very excited about this. I put the images on an online gallery which they can purchase from. Many of the dog owners have scheduled private photo sessions afterward.
I make my rounds to the tri-county area parks, and it takes me a few months to hit them all, but what a great time I have doing it.
I told my wife if I could perfect this business, after we retire, we could buy an RV and tour the country and visit dog parks.
Mike
I haven't been able to get out as much lately due to health issues again, and now that I am stable and unemployed, the cash flow is definitely a big case of the worries for me. Another thing that will definitely hold me back is some equipment failure that I had on a speedlight that was barely over a year old with perhaps no more than 100-200 pops. That was an expensive loss and the cost to repair it will probably exceed what I have in terms of petty cash, but that petty cash is currently on hold and watch to be on the safe side.
The only real satisfaction I have had in a job was with my last one, other ones have left me desiring a lot more. When I am out with my camera, nothing matters and I am able to relax but at the same time I just have no idea where to start and how to approach it. It's horrible when you have dedicated your life to one skill set, find another that you can grow with, and unexpected things happen making it difficult to use that skill set because everyone is out there fighting for the same work.
I've only licensed one photo about 2 years ago to a gentleman who works for a local company that has worked with the city and also has a strong stance on being green. That was just a chance thing sharing photos on a Mustang forum with other enthusiasts. If anyone may have some recommendations or perhaps places to start, I'd really love to try and kick my photography into a higher gear but realistically I am expecting another day job without satisfaction lol.