I'd like to buy a cover for a Canon 500mm f4 lens and have been considering either the Lens Coats or the Neoprene Lens covers from Wildlife Watching Supplies.
I'm drawn to the W.W.S one as it appears to be thicker neoprene at 4mm therefore offering a little more protection, it apperas to cover more of the lens, it includes a cover for the 1.4X and 2X extenders and it's cheaper, which is an added bonus.
I'd be interested to hear any opinions from folks using either of these covers, particularly the W.W.S. one, does it have any disadvantages over the Lens Coats.
It appears to have a slit where the lens' focus, I.S. range, I.S. mode,etc buttons are, is it quick and easy to get access to these buttons whilst shooting? Do you tuck the neoprene back a bit to improve access or is it fine as it is?
Kevin from W.W.S. said it'd be easy enough to have any modifications done so I was wondering if it may be better to have, instead of the slit, a rectangular tab cut on the three sides so it could be easily opened upwards and held in place by a small bit of velcro whilst shooting, giving full and easy access to all the buttons and switches, whilst being easily dropped back down when not needed.
Would this be worth considering or is the slit in the cover more than good enough for quick access?
The second bit of advice I'm after please is regarding Mike Lane's Grippa Bean Bags.
They seem very reasonibly priced in compasison to some considerably more expensive options. Are they any good or are there better options? Any recomendations?
Only criteria I want is that they'll grip a car door pretty snugly with the window fully wound down.
Thanks for any advice that anyone can offer on the above.
Posted by Mike Smith on August 28, 2008 at 6:48 AM
Depends upon your car, but I find that having the window wound fully down is too low for comfort so I either use a regular bean bag on a home made window support (three bits of wood , two pieces of an old pine shelf upright about 6" long with a flat top plate of thick ply or similar sandwiching the glass - TT shaped) held in place with elastic bands, or a regular 'H' shaped double bean bag drooped over the glass set to a more comfortable working height
Posted by Paul Inglis on August 28, 2008 at 7:10 AM
Hi Justin,
I’ve used LensCoat on my big Nikon glass for years and it has done the job admirably. However, I have found that the clear plastic window covering the switches make it nigh on impossible to change the positions so I just tend to peel the whole section back if I need to change anything i.e. switching VR On or Off. Also to change the filter I need to peel back a hefty section to do so. Other than that I love it. I’ve yet to try the WSS Neoprene Cover but have always liked their quality and Kevin’s great for providing tailor-made items that are always top draw.
One other point is that neoprene is very easy to cut if the need arises therefore I suggest having it delivered as standard, try it out and doctor it as required if need be.
I’m actually starting to prefer using the C80 All-in-one Camera and Lens Cover as I feel these offer much more protection from the elements than the neoprene. Such as Salt-Spray, Rain, Sunny Days, etc…
Sorry, I can’t comment about the Bean Bag as I’m still using those supplied by WSS!
Happy shoot,
Posted by Peter Barritt on August 28, 2008 at 7:54 AM
Hi Justin,
I use the WWS double beanbag and have been very pleased with it. On flights you can just buy rice at the far end of the journey.
I also use their lens covers for my 500mm, two different sizes and cut up so they cover the white bits and leave the controls free. On safari I then shove the whole lot in a pillow case which only takes a second to remove and can be washed regularly. May not be a fashion statement but it's a cheap and effective solution. I got these ideas from various safari websites.
Happy shooting. Pete.
peterbarrittphotography.com
These are thicker neoprene with a non slip back ( well they have not slipped on me) but more importantly ( unless Kevin has changed his stitching method) they are stitched by a wetsuit making machine so that the join is end on end, rather than leaving a welt of fabric where the farbic has be parrellel stitched. It means that the tube holds the whole way around rather than lifting at one point which lets grit etc into the gap.
I have a lenscoat on my 300mm and it is OK but not the same quality as a Arty JFR coat.
Would recommend WWS double bags especially if you can get one make with longer bottom sides for a car door; speak to Kevin.
T
Posted by Jeroen Stel on August 28, 2008 at 2:17 PM
I have been using the Wildlife Watching Supplies Lenscover for many years now and it works great!
Nice camo pattern and very strong material.
For the beanbag i would advise you to buy this one from my Dutch college Han Bouwmeester:
http://www.hanbouwmeester.nl/Winkel.htm#Rijstzak
I'd suggest his nr. 2 model but would e-mail him first to ask if he ships to the UK (guess he will though)
I think the case has already been well made for the LensCoat covers over the WWS covers. I have bought both in the past and I have the LensCoat covers on my 500/f4 and 300/f2.8 and an older JRF cover on my 600/f4 that should probably be replaced with a new LensCoat. I'm not sure where I threw the WWS cover.
I would also endorse the WWS x-large double beanbags, although in some instances the "saddlebag" type can be useful. I have 6 of the WWS xL double beanbags and one Wildlife Imageing "saddlebag" type beanbag. I also have the Kinesis Safari Sac. All have different uses.
Thanks for the suggestion. I made one for my last car but unfortunately it doesn't fit my present vehicle. Was going to make another one when I came across the beanbags for £13 or so, so I though for that price perhaps it's not worth getting the drill and saw out this time.
Paul
Thanks for the LensCoat recomendation, sounds like it's a good product.
I also like the look of the all in one covers from W.W.S. but the only thing that concerns me with those is not having instant access to the switches. I thought about maybe getting one of those at a later stage in addition to a Neoprene one for a bit of extra protection whilst photographing on the coast or if there's any likelyhood of a light shower.
Pete
Thanks for the suggestions and recomendation, that's more food for thought.
Rich
That's excellent advice, thanks very much. The fit was something I meant to ask about, but forgot, so that's answered that one for me. I had no idea it was fabric backed, that's obviously something I couldn't see from the photos or description.
Tom
Many thanks. I see the JFR ones are now unfortunately discontinued with only limited stocks available. I've just sent off an e-mail to see what the difference is between those and the current LensCoats and to find out availability.
Thanks for the beanbag recomendation. If I go for that one I probably will go for the custom sizing as I'm not overly concerned about size or weight but I do want something that's pretty substantial and that'll grip the car door very well.
Jeroen
Thanks for your input. Those LensCoat's are now sounding very promising.
I'll have a look at your collegue's beanbag.
Phil
Thanks a lot for your suggestion. Sounds like the LensCoat is the clear winner.
The W.W.S. beanbag's are looking good too.
Many thanks for all the excellent help. It has saved me a 200 mile round trip to look at the W.W.S. lens cover which I've now decided against.
If anyone else has anything further to add, please do so.
One further question that perhaps someone can help me with please. How much additional cost do I need to allow on top of the product price and shipping charges, i.e. v.a.t. , duty, etc?
Tom is right, if you can get one of Artys that is the way to go. If not then it’s a LensCoat
Re Bean bags, go direct to Mike Lane they are cheaper and just as good as WWS, at least mine are. You can buy two of Mikes for only £3.50 more than the large WWS one. This gives you an option of having one on top of the other, thus raising your working height.
Don’t use rice or seed if they get damp you have problems, with the rice/seed rotting, also due to the rice/seed having sharp ends they can work out thro’ the fabric. You are much better off using small beans.
Finally, either buy one with, or add, a lanyard, you don’t want it falling outside of the car, now do you.
When I’ve used a bean bag, I’ve lost shots due to having to faff around. Think about it. The bag is halfway inside the car, hindering you driving, then you stop, position the lens on the bag, roughly where the lens foot is mounted, and then contort yourself towards the centre of the car. Just the act of putting the lens outside the car can easily be enough to scare off your intended subject.
I much prefer to use a window mount.
For a start, it can be used as a platform for a bean bag which can be firmly attached to the window mount. This platform and beanbag can be mounted so that it outside of the car. This means that the fulcrum point of the lens is outside of the car, giving you more room to work in.
The best by far, for me at least is to use, a ball and socket, pan and tilt or what ever. I use a large Arca ball and socket. with a quick release plate attached.
Imagine the following.
Driving along, see subject in distance, stop car, mount camera/lens on quick release plate, the back of the cameras body is level with glass or a tad inboard, this doesn’t interfere with driving, and everything is locked down. Point the lens in the anticipated direction you will be shooting. Put car in first, drive off slowly with hand gently resting on the camera/lens and slowly drive into position, the last few yards switch off the engine and roll into the final position. If you have done it right, the lens is pointing at the subject, or as near as makes no difference. Job done.
Re buying from the states.
If cost of product is £18.00 or less, then no import tax or VAT is due, if cost is £36.00 or less and labelled as “gift” no import tax or VAT is due. Whatever the value of the product is and it has “return to customer after repair, under warranty”, no import tax or VAT is due. If a straight purchase costing more than £36.00 then calculate in an additional 24% for import tax or VAT is due. If it is sent by US postal mail, and is thus delivered by Parcel Force add a further £8.00, this is Parcel Forces clearance fee.
Many thanks for your help. The set-up and method you describe sounds like a similar one to what I used to use with my homemade mount (see photo above).
In fact after reading reading your reply and on reflection I think I'd probably be best just making another one in addition to getting a decent beanbag for the reasons you mentioned, i.e. leaving the camera in place and roughly pointing in the right direction. In fact thinking about it further, it would be good to have the Arca Swiss mounted on the mount again (as in the photo above) as my brief experience with a 500mm shows it can be a bit of a pain trying to manually focus with the lens on a beanbag, something which I'll have to use on occasion when using a 2X extender.
I think I'll go for both and have the best of both worlds.
Thanks for explaining the duty charges. I can never remember what's chargeable and what isn't and by how much.
Posted by John Robinson on August 29, 2008 at 9:27 AM
This is what I use. Bit of 3X2 wedged behind the door handle and the upper spongy door trim below the window. Solid as a rock The camera swivels around parallel to the door for driving (On quiet roads of course!) Cost - nothing., but you have to buy a Citroen ! The camo is an army tee shirt sleeve
JohnR
Sorry for delay in replying, but a combination of life and my computer having thrown a wobbly and gone on sick leave, all conspired to thwart my ability to reply within a reasonable time frame.
First of all, there is one over riding criteria when I’m shooting from a car, and that is safety, and if there is the remotest chance of this being compromised, then potential cause is rejected. So following this anything which encroaches within the driver’s envelope is a definite NO, NO, for me. Which is why Johns solution, wouldn’t get to first base, as far as I’m concerned.
The argument I invariable get is that “I’m always stationary and parked at least partially off the road”. I was once hit up the rear by a local in Greece, it turned out that he drove that road several times a day, and on that particular stretch of road and at that time of day, the sun and shining into the drivers face. But he knew the road and anyway no one was ever on that stretch parked up. Now all I had to be was parked up facing him and shooting. End of story. If I had had something fixed between me and the steering wheel, and that includes to one side.
No shot is ever worth waking up in hospital, wondering if you got it or not.
Having to refocusing my lens when changing from vertical to horizontal formats, was the reason that I went away from using beanbags for actual shooting, this together with being forced into some of the most uncomfortable contortions/positions imaginable was the clincher. By using a window mount together with a ball and socket, I can now use the lenses collar mounting.
Justin, firstly I use a “Kirk” window mount and the large Arca-Swiss Monoball. It gives me a few advantages, as it folds down to give me a low level shooting platform, this also means it can fit into my photo vest, for when I’m travelling abroad.
I hope you don’t mind, but a few things come to mind when I viewed your shot of your set up.
As I said above I use the large Arca ball & socket, this is for a number of reasons.
1. I use a 600 couple this to a camera body and it can weigh a “ton”, a small ball & socket just hasn’t the loading spec that the large one does.
2. As my B&S is large this increases the shooting height relative to the mounting platform, which in turn increases the vertical arc I have for shooting, it also brings the camera up to near a damn it, eye level.
Looking at your set up, I would consider doing a number of things.
1. I would mount the B&S on at least a 20mm thick block, which is firmly attached to the main base, this will give you a greater vertical angle to work with and also bring the cameras eye piece closer to your own eye level.
2. Locate the B&S mounting point outside the car windows profile, this again gives you better angle of coverage, particularly if working ditches etc., as a bonus it also gives you more working room inside the car.,
3. Tone down the “colour” of the wood.
4. If you can, try and position the mirror so that you can see behind you, apart from the reassurance it gives you, as to who else is around, it will also help you know if you are holding up other “road” users.
5. Wear subdued coloured clothing, even to the point of scriming your face/hands. Always remember that movement, when detected, is the prime reason for wildlife to take “flight”.
6. Consider scriming up the window and lens. I can convert a car into a comfortable “hide” in under two minutes, I’ve got it down to a fine art now. It’s amazing what you can do with some scrim, Velcro and elastic bands.
There are some species and individuals within a species, which will not tolerate an unscrimed car. One of the problems you have, is that any movement can be disastrous both to you as a photographer, and much more importantly, your intended subject, as it is put to flight, stressed out. Scriming up, can eliminate these problems. Just watch your subject “body” language.
Justin, if I had the choice of any method of shooting from a car it wouldn’t be using beanbags, although I do use them as equipment cushions. For practical reasons, it is a window mount coupled with a large ball head as I, described above. But in an ideal world it would have to be a “gimble”, I use a Wimberley Mk II by choice, but it rarely is an ideal world. The Wimberley would make for safer driving/positioning, plus greater security for the camera/lens.
With a little bit of research you can find out where the sun is in relation to any given location.
By far the best way to photograph from a car is through the passengers window, apart from taking up a seat I can’t think of one disadvantage shooting this way, but as I have described above, I can think of many for shooting from the drivers side. But that’s another story, as they say.
If you or anyone else wants clarification just let me know and I will try and find the article I once wrote, which includes an explanatory images.
The Kirk Window mount is very useful - but it isn't the quickest of things to chuck onto a car window . I usually only use it when I'm going to be in one place for a while, or am on very quiet roads. It does have to be said that not having to refocus vertical-to-horizontal is a big bonus with it, and was the reason I bought mine. I still sometimes use the beanbags when I'm in a hurry - or when I want some extra stabilisation on the lens.
BTW, I'd recommend that you drive with the 500 on the front passenger seat - and that you fasten it's seat belt! Why?? If you have to stop sharply, then an unsecured 500 can slide off the seat and hit the gearstick or drop into the footwell - if it hits the footwell, then it could well break the lens mount (it happened to a US NPN'er a few years back when he had a car 'wreck'). If you put the 500 behind the front seats on the floor when driving then get some heavy beanbags to keep it in place and stop it sliding around. The front seat + seatbelt is the best place - you wouldn't like to be hit in the back of the head by 5-6Kg of metal as it heads through the windscreen in an accident
Many thanks for your detailed reply. Lots of good advice there and plenty to think about.
Having the camera mounted higher to allow a wider verticle arc is something I hadn't considered although in the photograph I enclosed having the Arca bolted directly to the base of the window mount actually worked well in that particular car as it just about allowed me enough room to have a hot-shoe mounted flashgun in case I need it for fill-in flash if the lighting direction wasn't ideal. The clearence between the top of the flash and the top of the window was minimal and it did make manoeuvering the set-up very restrictive and a little cumbersome. Your tip about having the Arca mounted outside of the car's profile is a good one and would obviously solve the above problem.
Regarding blocking out the windows, I always keep two or three pieces of army scrim netting in the car for that purpose. If I have time to prepare in advance I usually open the doors a little and drape the scrim over the top of the doors, thus keeping it firmly in place when the doors closed. It's then just a simple matter of keeping them held up out of the way using the grab handle or suit hanger you get in a lot of cars and then just dropping them at the last minute.
The picture shows the window mount soon after I made it, it was soon painted a nice drab, British Army green, not that this was really needed to keep it concealed when attached to a bright red car . It did look funky though and of course helps protect it from any moisture.
Good safety advice regarding the mirror. I always generally have the interior one positioned optimally to keep an eye on what's behind me.
I hadn't thought of the Kirk window mount. I've heard of it but didn't really know much about it. Having now read up about it I'll probably give it a miss I think, in favour of making my own suitable platform. Main reason being the cost, at nearly £200 it isn't exactly cheap and I generally prefer never to leave anything of any value in the car, whether out of sight or otherwise. The window mount is something I'd want left in the car so it's ready to use at a seconds notice, with a couple of bits of MDF bolted together this isn't a concern, thanks for the suggestion though.
Ray, if the article you mention was the one conatining a picture of your set-up inside a 4X4 which you posted on the 'other' forum, then I've already seen that one and have already gleaned lots of useful pointers from that , thanks.
Nick
Thanks for your input. As mentioned above I'll probably give the Kirk a miss in favour of a home-made solution.
Thanks for the tip about the seat belt. I hadn't thought of that although I do generally have the lens surrounded by heavy beanbags when it's on the passenger seat. I like the idea of the added security that the seat belt provides.
When Nick suggests the use of a seat belt, I do the same, but different, if that makes any sense.
If you recall, the image of my passenger seat setup. In the “V’s” formed by the tripods legs and the back of the seat is where I wedge my bean bags, this creates a very solid and safe “nest” for my lens and camera when traveling around.
There is one word of warning which few know about, and that includes most police.
It is illegal to have any edge/corner of your vehicle that doesn’t have at least a 6.5 mm radius. This is to try and minimize any injury which might be inflicted other road users. This does mean that here in the UK, the Kirk is illegal, if the vehicle is on the move or even if stationary but the keys are in the ignition.
I can think of nothing worse than to be “driving” onto a subject, where I have to have one hand resting on my lens setup, just to stop it falling outside of the car, or swinging down and banging into its side, and that’s ignoring the cameras body stuck in my face. Mobile phones are small meat in comparison, if you see what I mean.
Yon mention the price of a “Kirk” window mount, and I can empathize. But the way I look at it is exactly the same process as when I research a new tripod. I balance the mounting platform, be it a tripod or a window mount, against the cost of my equipment, and I don’t mean just the pounds, shillings and pence. If a lens/camera is put out of action, then that could easily mean, that as a result of this, I am restricted as to what options are then open to me, re me getting further images. Don’t forget, that these proprietary window mounts, can also be used as a low level shooting platform.
Thanks for the additional info. I certainly wouldn't have had a clue about the legality of window mounts.
I've just returned from a day out with a lot of the time spent shooting from the car and I'm definately going to make a window mount, sooner rather than later. It was a bit of a pain resting the camera on top of three homemade beanbags whilst trying to keep them in position without them falling out of the car. Kept catching the focus ring as well which was a nuisence.
I was thinking today what you were saying about raising the camera up to eye level and it made a lot of sense as a Goldfinch landed higher than expected, I had to get in some very ackward and uncomfortable positions in order to be able to see through the viewfinder whilst pointing the lens upwards
You mentioned that the shot I photographed of my setup was taken using a 4x4.
There was a reason for choosing this vehicle. It was early may and the vegetation was growing tall, and a a number of subjects were in the bottom of water ditches, so my camera/lens was frequently pointing downwards, and I was frequently kneeling.
Solved the preblem, and here is the secret, a inflatable cushion. Try it, doesn't cost much but boy can it make like a bit easier.
Solved the preblem, and here is the secret, a inflatable cushion.
I'm all set then Ray as I actually bought the last two inflateable cushions (or travel pillows I think they were called) that Tesco's had a couple of months ago. Quite a bargain they were too at 50 pence each. Great for camping or a quick siesta following a ludicrously early morning
Discussion
17 repliesI'd like to buy a cover for a Canon 500mm f4 lens and have been considering either the Lens Coats or the Neoprene Lens covers from Wildlife Watching Supplies.
I'm drawn to the W.W.S one as it appears to be thicker neoprene at 4mm therefore offering a little more protection, it apperas to cover more of the lens, it includes a cover for the 1.4X and 2X extenders and it's cheaper, which is an added bonus.
I'd be interested to hear any opinions from folks using either of these covers, particularly the W.W.S. one, does it have any disadvantages over the Lens Coats.
It appears to have a slit where the lens' focus, I.S. range, I.S. mode,etc buttons are, is it quick and easy to get access to these buttons whilst shooting? Do you tuck the neoprene back a bit to improve access or is it fine as it is?
Kevin from W.W.S. said it'd be easy enough to have any modifications done so I was wondering if it may be better to have, instead of the slit, a rectangular tab cut on the three sides so it could be easily opened upwards and held in place by a small bit of velcro whilst shooting, giving full and easy access to all the buttons and switches, whilst being easily dropped back down when not needed.
Would this be worth considering or is the slit in the cover more than good enough for quick access?
The second bit of advice I'm after please is regarding Mike Lane's Grippa Bean Bags.
They seem very reasonibly priced in compasison to some considerably more expensive options. Are they any good or are there better options? Any recomendations?
Only criteria I want is that they'll grip a car door pretty snugly with the window fully wound down.
Thanks for any advice that anyone can offer on the above.
I’ve used LensCoat on my big Nikon glass for years and it has done the job admirably. However, I have found that the clear plastic window covering the switches make it nigh on impossible to change the positions so I just tend to peel the whole section back if I need to change anything i.e. switching VR On or Off. Also to change the filter I need to peel back a hefty section to do so. Other than that I love it. I’ve yet to try the WSS Neoprene Cover but have always liked their quality and Kevin’s great for providing tailor-made items that are always top draw.
One other point is that neoprene is very easy to cut if the need arises therefore I suggest having it delivered as standard, try it out and doctor it as required if need be.
I’m actually starting to prefer using the C80 All-in-one Camera and Lens Cover as I feel these offer much more protection from the elements than the neoprene. Such as Salt-Spray, Rain, Sunny Days, etc…
Sorry, I can’t comment about the Bean Bag as I’m still using those supplied by WSS!
Happy shoot,
I use the WWS double beanbag and have been very pleased with it. On flights you can just buy rice at the far end of the journey.
I also use their lens covers for my 500mm, two different sizes and cut up so they cover the white bits and leave the controls free. On safari I then shove the whole lot in a pillow case which only takes a second to remove and can be washed regularly. May not be a fashion statement but it's a cheap and effective solution. I got these ideas from various safari websites.
Happy shooting. Pete.
peterbarrittphotography.com
These are thicker neoprene with a non slip back ( well they have not slipped on me) but more importantly ( unless Kevin has changed his stitching method) they are stitched by a wetsuit making machine so that the join is end on end, rather than leaving a welt of fabric where the farbic has be parrellel stitched. It means that the tube holds the whole way around rather than lifting at one point which lets grit etc into the gap.
I have a lenscoat on my 300mm and it is OK but not the same quality as a Arty JFR coat.
Would recommend WWS double bags especially if you can get one make with longer bottom sides for a car door; speak to Kevin.
T
Nice camo pattern and very strong material.
For the beanbag i would advise you to buy this one from my Dutch college Han Bouwmeester:
http://www.hanbouwmeester.nl/Winkel.htm#Rijstzak
I'd suggest his nr. 2 model but would e-mail him first to ask if he ships to the UK (guess he will though)
Greetings,
Jeroen Stel
I would also endorse the WWS x-large double beanbags, although in some instances the "saddlebag" type can be useful. I have 6 of the WWS xL double beanbags and one Wildlife Imageing "saddlebag" type beanbag. I also have the Kinesis Safari Sac. All have different uses.
Thanks for the suggestion. I made one for my last car but unfortunately it doesn't fit my present vehicle. Was going to make another one when I came across the beanbags for £13 or so, so I though for that price perhaps it's not worth getting the drill and saw out this time.
Paul
Thanks for the LensCoat recomendation, sounds like it's a good product.
I also like the look of the all in one covers from W.W.S. but the only thing that concerns me with those is not having instant access to the switches. I thought about maybe getting one of those at a later stage in addition to a Neoprene one for a bit of extra protection whilst photographing on the coast or if there's any likelyhood of a light shower.
Pete
Thanks for the suggestions and recomendation, that's more food for thought.
Rich
That's excellent advice, thanks very much. The fit was something I meant to ask about, but forgot, so that's answered that one for me. I had no idea it was fabric backed, that's obviously something I couldn't see from the photos or description.
Tom
Many thanks. I see the JFR ones are now unfortunately discontinued with only limited stocks available. I've just sent off an e-mail to see what the difference is between those and the current LensCoats and to find out availability.
Thanks for the beanbag recomendation. If I go for that one I probably will go for the custom sizing as I'm not overly concerned about size or weight but I do want something that's pretty substantial and that'll grip the car door very well.
Jeroen
Thanks for your input. Those LensCoat's are now sounding very promising.
I'll have a look at your collegue's beanbag.
Phil
Thanks a lot for your suggestion. Sounds like the LensCoat is the clear winner.
The W.W.S. beanbag's are looking good too.
Many thanks for all the excellent help. It has saved me a 200 mile round trip to look at the W.W.S. lens cover which I've now decided against.
If anyone else has anything further to add, please do so.
One further question that perhaps someone can help me with please. How much additional cost do I need to allow on top of the product price and shipping charges, i.e. v.a.t. , duty, etc?
Tom is right, if you can get one of Artys that is the way to go. If not then it’s a LensCoat
Re Bean bags, go direct to Mike Lane they are cheaper and just as good as WWS, at least mine are. You can buy two of Mikes for only £3.50 more than the large WWS one. This gives you an option of having one on top of the other, thus raising your working height.
Don’t use rice or seed if they get damp you have problems, with the rice/seed rotting, also due to the rice/seed having sharp ends they can work out thro’ the fabric. You are much better off using small beans.
Finally, either buy one with, or add, a lanyard, you don’t want it falling outside of the car, now do you.
When I’ve used a bean bag, I’ve lost shots due to having to faff around. Think about it. The bag is halfway inside the car, hindering you driving, then you stop, position the lens on the bag, roughly where the lens foot is mounted, and then contort yourself towards the centre of the car. Just the act of putting the lens outside the car can easily be enough to scare off your intended subject.
I much prefer to use a window mount.
For a start, it can be used as a platform for a bean bag which can be firmly attached to the window mount. This platform and beanbag can be mounted so that it outside of the car. This means that the fulcrum point of the lens is outside of the car, giving you more room to work in.
The best by far, for me at least is to use, a ball and socket, pan and tilt or what ever. I use a large Arca ball and socket. with a quick release plate attached.
Imagine the following.
Driving along, see subject in distance, stop car, mount camera/lens on quick release plate, the back of the cameras body is level with glass or a tad inboard, this doesn’t interfere with driving, and everything is locked down. Point the lens in the anticipated direction you will be shooting. Put car in first, drive off slowly with hand gently resting on the camera/lens and slowly drive into position, the last few yards switch off the engine and roll into the final position. If you have done it right, the lens is pointing at the subject, or as near as makes no difference. Job done.
Re buying from the states.
If cost of product is £18.00 or less, then no import tax or VAT is due, if cost is £36.00 or less and labelled as “gift” no import tax or VAT is due. Whatever the value of the product is and it has “return to customer after repair, under warranty”, no import tax or VAT is due. If a straight purchase costing more than £36.00 then calculate in an additional 24% for import tax or VAT is due. If it is sent by US postal mail, and is thus delivered by Parcel Force add a further £8.00, this is Parcel Forces clearance fee.
Hope this helps.
Many thanks for your help. The set-up and method you describe sounds like a similar one to what I used to use with my homemade mount (see photo above).
In fact after reading reading your reply and on reflection I think I'd probably be best just making another one in addition to getting a decent beanbag for the reasons you mentioned, i.e. leaving the camera in place and roughly pointing in the right direction. In fact thinking about it further, it would be good to have the Arca Swiss mounted on the mount again (as in the photo above) as my brief experience with a 500mm shows it can be a bit of a pain trying to manually focus with the lens on a beanbag, something which I'll have to use on occasion when using a 2X extender.
I think I'll go for both and have the best of both worlds.
Thanks for explaining the duty charges. I can never remember what's chargeable and what isn't and by how much.
JohnR
Sorry for delay in replying, but a combination of life and my computer having thrown a wobbly and gone on sick leave, all conspired to thwart my ability to reply within a reasonable time frame.
First of all, there is one over riding criteria when I’m shooting from a car, and that is safety, and if there is the remotest chance of this being compromised, then potential cause is rejected. So following this anything which encroaches within the driver’s envelope is a definite NO, NO, for me. Which is why Johns solution, wouldn’t get to first base, as far as I’m concerned.
The argument I invariable get is that “I’m always stationary and parked at least partially off the road”. I was once hit up the rear by a local in Greece, it turned out that he drove that road several times a day, and on that particular stretch of road and at that time of day, the sun and shining into the drivers face. But he knew the road and anyway no one was ever on that stretch parked up. Now all I had to be was parked up facing him and shooting. End of story. If I had had something fixed between me and the steering wheel, and that includes to one side.
No shot is ever worth waking up in hospital, wondering if you got it or not.
Having to refocusing my lens when changing from vertical to horizontal formats, was the reason that I went away from using beanbags for actual shooting, this together with being forced into some of the most uncomfortable contortions/positions imaginable was the clincher. By using a window mount together with a ball and socket, I can now use the lenses collar mounting.
Justin, firstly I use a “Kirk” window mount and the large Arca-Swiss Monoball. It gives me a few advantages, as it folds down to give me a low level shooting platform, this also means it can fit into my photo vest, for when I’m travelling abroad.
I hope you don’t mind, but a few things come to mind when I viewed your shot of your set up.
As I said above I use the large Arca ball & socket, this is for a number of reasons.
1. I use a 600 couple this to a camera body and it can weigh a “ton”, a small ball & socket just hasn’t the loading spec that the large one does.
2. As my B&S is large this increases the shooting height relative to the mounting platform, which in turn increases the vertical arc I have for shooting, it also brings the camera up to near a damn it, eye level.
Looking at your set up, I would consider doing a number of things.
1. I would mount the B&S on at least a 20mm thick block, which is firmly attached to the main base, this will give you a greater vertical angle to work with and also bring the cameras eye piece closer to your own eye level.
2. Locate the B&S mounting point outside the car windows profile, this again gives you better angle of coverage, particularly if working ditches etc., as a bonus it also gives you more working room inside the car.,
3. Tone down the “colour” of the wood.
4. If you can, try and position the mirror so that you can see behind you, apart from the reassurance it gives you, as to who else is around, it will also help you know if you are holding up other “road” users.
5. Wear subdued coloured clothing, even to the point of scriming your face/hands. Always remember that movement, when detected, is the prime reason for wildlife to take “flight”.
6. Consider scriming up the window and lens. I can convert a car into a comfortable “hide” in under two minutes, I’ve got it down to a fine art now. It’s amazing what you can do with some scrim, Velcro and elastic bands.
There are some species and individuals within a species, which will not tolerate an unscrimed car. One of the problems you have, is that any movement can be disastrous both to you as a photographer, and much more importantly, your intended subject, as it is put to flight, stressed out. Scriming up, can eliminate these problems. Just watch your subject “body” language.
Justin, if I had the choice of any method of shooting from a car it wouldn’t be using beanbags, although I do use them as equipment cushions. For practical reasons, it is a window mount coupled with a large ball head as I, described above. But in an ideal world it would have to be a “gimble”, I use a Wimberley Mk II by choice, but it rarely is an ideal world. The Wimberley would make for safer driving/positioning, plus greater security for the camera/lens.
With a little bit of research you can find out where the sun is in relation to any given location.
By far the best way to photograph from a car is through the passengers window, apart from taking up a seat I can’t think of one disadvantage shooting this way, but as I have described above, I can think of many for shooting from the drivers side. But that’s another story, as they say.
If you or anyone else wants clarification just let me know and I will try and find the article I once wrote, which includes an explanatory images.
Happy/safe shooting.
BTW, I'd recommend that you drive with the 500 on the front passenger seat - and that you fasten it's seat belt! Why?? If you have to stop sharply, then an unsecured 500 can slide off the seat and hit the gearstick or drop into the footwell - if it hits the footwell, then it could well break the lens mount (it happened to a US NPN'er a few years back when he had a car 'wreck'). If you put the 500 behind the front seats on the floor when driving then get some heavy beanbags to keep it in place and stop it sliding around. The front seat + seatbelt is the best place - you wouldn't like to be hit in the back of the head by 5-6Kg of metal as it heads through the windscreen in an accident
Thanks for sharing your method.
Ray
Many thanks for your detailed reply. Lots of good advice there and plenty to think about.
Having the camera mounted higher to allow a wider verticle arc is something I hadn't considered although in the photograph I enclosed having the Arca bolted directly to the base of the window mount actually worked well in that particular car as it just about allowed me enough room to have a hot-shoe mounted flashgun in case I need it for fill-in flash if the lighting direction wasn't ideal. The clearence between the top of the flash and the top of the window was minimal and it did make manoeuvering the set-up very restrictive and a little cumbersome. Your tip about having the Arca mounted outside of the car's profile is a good one and would obviously solve the above problem.
Regarding blocking out the windows, I always keep two or three pieces of army scrim netting in the car for that purpose. If I have time to prepare in advance I usually open the doors a little and drape the scrim over the top of the doors, thus keeping it firmly in place when the doors closed. It's then just a simple matter of keeping them held up out of the way using the grab handle or suit hanger you get in a lot of cars and then just dropping them at the last minute.
The picture shows the window mount soon after I made it, it was soon painted a nice drab, British Army green, not that this was really needed to keep it concealed when attached to a bright red car
Good safety advice regarding the mirror. I always generally have the interior one positioned optimally to keep an eye on what's behind me.
I hadn't thought of the Kirk window mount. I've heard of it but didn't really know much about it. Having now read up about it I'll probably give it a miss I think, in favour of making my own suitable platform. Main reason being the cost, at nearly £200 it isn't exactly cheap and I generally prefer never to leave anything of any value in the car, whether out of sight or otherwise. The window mount is something I'd want left in the car so it's ready to use at a seconds notice, with a couple of bits of MDF bolted together this isn't a concern, thanks for the suggestion though.
Ray, if the article you mention was the one conatining a picture of your set-up inside a 4X4 which you posted on the 'other' forum, then I've already seen that one and have already gleaned lots of useful pointers from that
Nick
Thanks for your input. As mentioned above I'll probably give the Kirk a miss in favour of a home-made solution.
Thanks for the tip about the seat belt. I hadn't thought of that although I do generally have the lens surrounded by heavy beanbags when it's on the passenger seat. I like the idea of the added security that the seat belt provides.
When Nick suggests the use of a seat belt, I do the same, but different, if that makes any sense.
If you recall, the image of my passenger seat setup. In the “V’s” formed by the tripods legs and the back of the seat is where I wedge my bean bags, this creates a very solid and safe “nest” for my lens and camera when traveling around.
There is one word of warning which few know about, and that includes most police.
It is illegal to have any edge/corner of your vehicle that doesn’t have at least a 6.5 mm radius. This is to try and minimize any injury which might be inflicted other road users. This does mean that here in the UK, the Kirk is illegal, if the vehicle is on the move or even if stationary but the keys are in the ignition.
I can think of nothing worse than to be “driving” onto a subject, where I have to have one hand resting on my lens setup, just to stop it falling outside of the car, or swinging down and banging into its side, and that’s ignoring the cameras body stuck in my face. Mobile phones are small meat in comparison, if you see what I mean.
Yon mention the price of a “Kirk” window mount, and I can empathize. But the way I look at it is exactly the same process as when I research a new tripod. I balance the mounting platform, be it a tripod or a window mount, against the cost of my equipment, and I don’t mean just the pounds, shillings and pence. If a lens/camera is put out of action, then that could easily mean, that as a result of this, I am restricted as to what options are then open to me, re me getting further images. Don’t forget, that these proprietary window mounts, can also be used as a low level shooting platform.
Hope your still keeping an eye on this thread.
I'm still keeping an eye on the thread.
Thanks for the additional info. I certainly wouldn't have had a clue about the legality of window mounts.
I've just returned from a day out with a lot of the time spent shooting from the car and I'm definately going to make a window mount, sooner rather than later. It was a bit of a pain resting the camera on top of three homemade beanbags whilst trying to keep them in position without them falling out of the car. Kept catching the focus ring as well which was a nuisence.
I was thinking today what you were saying about raising the camera up to eye level and it made a lot of sense as a Goldfinch landed higher than expected, I had to get in some very ackward and uncomfortable positions in order to be able to see through the viewfinder whilst pointing the lens upwards
Now here is a little secret.
Its all to do with comfort.
You mentioned that the shot I photographed of my setup was taken using a 4x4.
There was a reason for choosing this vehicle. It was early may and the vegetation was growing tall, and a a number of subjects were in the bottom of water ditches, so my camera/lens was frequently pointing downwards, and I was frequently kneeling.
Solved the preblem, and here is the secret, a inflatable cushion. Try it, doesn't cost much but boy can it make like a bit easier.
Happy shooting.
I'm all set then Ray as I actually bought the last two inflateable cushions (or travel pillows I think they were called) that Tesco's had a couple of months ago. Quite a bargain they were too at 50 pence each. Great for camping or a quick siesta following a ludicrously early morning