I'm starting to feel a little bit frustrated. I just bought my first of a few GNDs and this was my first outing with it. Unfortunately I am stuck with the kit lens with the horrible barrel focus that rotates making it very difficult to focus properly.
So, with this being my first attempt going GND I can see I have a long road ahead of me to get it right but I think the crucial thing is going to be using the right lens. I am shooting with a D70s so noise is also an issue at times too. What are some great lenses for landscape for us Nikon guys? It's really hard right now to fight the urge of going with a 5D and a 17-40L to get me started but I'd hate to sell what I have and take a loss on it.
Posted by Mark Hudon on August 31, 2008 at 1:17 AM
My 28-70, 2.8 is really nice and really sharp, Nick, I use it a lot. It's a fifteen hundred dollar lens though.
I don't see anything too horribly wrong with this shot as far as GND is concerned. It's certainly a lot better than my efforts with GNDs on my recent Yellowstone trip.
What lens are you shooting with now? I have the 5D & 17-40 & I love it for landscapes but there's other ways to get to 17 mm on a crop body. What do you plan to shoot, specifically?
Hey Mark, I actually have my eyes on the newer 24-70 2.8 but am holding back a bit since it wouldn't be as wide as I would want it to be for landscape but I would be using that lens for portrait specific work, as well as group shots where I needed to be a tad wider. The biggest issue that I have is the way the lens I use for landscape right now focuses. The barrel is fixed and rotates so using a polarizer is a task because sometimes the lens will hunt for focus, and the way it is focused is really cheap and ghetto, for lack of a better word. It's a real hassle to manually focus with how cheaply it is built and this last set of images I shot really burned me only having perhaps 2 keepers out of 160 total that were shot. I am a bit too accustomed to having a focus scale on my other lenses.
Hey Kevin, right now I just have the kit lens that I use for wide angle work, the 18-55. I also have the 50 f/1.8 that I tend to use for infrared, panos, and full body shots for portrait work. I also have the 85 f/1.8 for head shots and 3/4 body, and the 70-300 VR which hasn't seen much use yet. I plan on shooting mainly landscape, but also will be working on portrait work, perhaps a wedding here and there. I have 2 weddings booked for next year that just happen to fall into my lap.
I have considered trying to get a couple wider primes, but I'd rather have a smaller range zoom to dedicate to landscape. I've been looking into the 17-35 2.8, but that's still pricey. I have no issues forking out the money for good gear that will last because I take great care of everything that I have. With the announcement of the 5D replacement coming soon, I am really really curious to see what it will be featuring for a potential purchase, or even scoring a 5D brand new since they are still plentiful right now. I think going FF would be great for landscape and portrait. I don't really see myself shooting too much telephoto right now, but that could always change and probably will later on. I could also fund a crop body as a backup and for extra reach with the longer lenses.
Posted by Geoff Shapiro on August 31, 2008 at 10:32 AM
If you're not doing wildlife photography and you can't afford the new 5DMkII when it comes out, I'd recommend you either get a new or used 5D for the FF and IQ that camera gives you. I'd like the new 5D and the 50D since I shoot landscape and wildlife.
I've never been a GND user (I should try) so I think these first attempts on your part look pretty good. This image seems to be tilted quite a bit clockwise to my eye, or at least that's the feeling I get from it.
Posted by Jack Graham on August 31, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Ditto on Mark's comment on the 28-70. The new 24-70 lighter and is tack sharp as well, but I am seeing 28-70' around ( eBay) for 1000.00 or under. It's as sharp a lens as Nikon has made and now that the new 24-70 is out you might be able to pick one up at a reasonable price.
JG
Posted by Edward Thomas on September 1, 2008 at 12:13 AM
Hi Nicholas,
You're already a Nikon shooter, why not a D700? Having said that, you may also want to consider the Nikon 18-70 3.5-4.5. It's a DX lens, but very sharp and can be had used for around $250. If you go with the D700, the Tamron 28-75 2.8 is also an option, great optics, very inexpensive.
Edward
www.edwardthomasart.com
Posted by Edward Thomas on September 1, 2008 at 12:15 AM
Oh, yea, I'm also using the 50 1.8, 85 1.8, and 70-300VR with the D700 and the results are stunning!
Add a 20mm, 24mm, 35mm, and you're done, or the 18-35mm FF.
Posted by Rick Lamb on September 1, 2008 at 1:32 AM
Here is a brief outline of the camera craft I use when setting up for a GND shot:
1st and foremost - get it level. Your image appears to be slanted a bit down to the right. This can be such an annoying killer of an otherwise excellent image. Trust me when I say I have PLENTY of experience is creating lopsided images....DOH!
2nd decide which GND best fits the scene. If you have a spot meter of any worth in your camera or on a handheld light meter figure out the exposure difference of the mountain to the reflection of the mountain. You ultimately want to balance the two with the GND so they are the same exposure. A good starting point is a 2-stop GND for a shot like yours.
3rd use your depth of field preview to set the blend line. Typically I shoot an image like this with some sort of foreground to ground the lower part of the scene which means I will shoot at F/11. With depth of field preview at F/11 you will easily see the blend line in the viewfinder. Move it up or down and/or tilt it left right to balance it so it doesn't nip the tops of the trees/ridges and make them black. If you go look at http://www.ramblinlamb.com and take a look at the cover image the tops of the trees on the right are just a bit dark from the GND. I didn't quite tilt the GND in it's holder quite enough. But the good news is only us fotogs would notice that bit of a fopah on my part.
Now that you have your shot setup snap off a frame and give it a very close review on the LCD minding the histogram. Adjust accordingly and nail that killer image!!
Other than the bit of tilt to the right I like this image quite well and I think that you did a great job with the gear you had in hand. Do know that the Canon 17-40mm F/2.8 L Series lens DOES have a bit of barrel distortion at 17mm. So even an otherwise great lens still can have some weaknesses.
Barrel distortion can be easily fixed with a nifty tool called PTLens. Google it and you will find the website for it. Best $15.00 I've ever spent!!
Rick, thanks a bunch for the info. I think that I am going to have to invest into a hand held light meter to be on the safe side. I don't fully trust the spot meter in my D70s but to be perfectly honest I am still so new at this that I have much, much to learn. Everything that I know has been trial and error, as well as input from people on various websites. I pretty much started with a point and shoot around 2 years ago, felt held back by it and bought a DSLR 6 months later with no prior experience with a camera. I needed a creative outlet due to drumming and apartments not working well together without people going on a witch hunt. After seeing some work scattered around I just wanted to do nothing more than to take beautiful pictures. I'll be cheesy and admit that one of the people that totally blew me away and fueled my desire to capture beautiful scenery is Marc Adamus. This place has been really welcoming to me and I can't wait to eventually get more out and about and meet some of you.
The image is slanted and it irritates me because I spent a lot of time in the dark mumbling four letter words trying to get the tripod to report as being level and I thought I had it down until I got home and noticed all of my images were slanted. Chalk up another learning experience. I have read a lot about different ways to use GNDs and one of the recommendations I saw was to keep the foreground about 1 stop brighter. I'm still trying to figure out the conversions for the f/stops to balance things out and it will all come in time. I was pleased to see that on quite a few of my shots the exposure seemed pretty well balanced without any clipping on the left or right, but I did also bracket exposures to be on the safe side in case I needed to do some blending. I plan on getting a 3 stop hard and soft, as well as a 3 stop reverse. I am sure I will probably use the 3 stop filters a tad more than the 2 stop one and might even need to double up a 3/2 combo for the extreme lighting that I will eventually run into.
Edward, thanks for the info about the D700. I have had my eye on the D700 but I have also heard the IQ on it isn't as great as some expected with others mentioning the 5D still holds the torch in IQ when compared. I am not sure of the validity of that and would hate to spend $3K on the body if that were true when I could essentially score the 5D and 17-40L for around the same price brand new and have a killer set up but I would love nothing more than to not sell my gear and change systems because I really love how sharp my primes are, and that 70-300 is a wicked set of glass for the price compared to its bigger brother.
My recent plans have been to get the 18-70 for the D70s and have it converted to IR once I get a new body. I've read that most places calibrate the D70s to the 18-70 so it seems right to have it to ensure the focus is straight on target. That's a whole different talk show, but I am trying to put together a laundry list that I can stick with when it comes to what gear to buy. I just need to find a way to fund it. My ski mask hasn't been worn too much lately but I am gonna have to keep that item of clothing on the slopes, haha.
Posted by Adrian Klein on September 1, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Nicholas, as noted it's slanted which I am notorious for doing myself. I take a bubble level with me but I can't seem to find it so I have been doing without again. This is an easy fix in PS though, will loose some of the image depending how much you are off. And the GND seems pretty good for first outing I would say. There is a learning curve but a wise investment. Keep working with them. PS is good and I do plenty of hand blending but also use GND's in the field. I am not a Nikon guy but what I will say and tell everyone is to invest in better lenses before a better body. There are some differences in the cameras but the greatest pay back you will get is not jumping up one level of a body but rather getting good glass. Keep up the good work!
Discussion
10 repliesSo, with this being my first attempt going GND I can see I have a long road ahead of me to get it right but I think the crucial thing is going to be using the right lens. I am shooting with a D70s so noise is also an issue at times too. What are some great lenses for landscape for us Nikon guys? It's really hard right now to fight the urge of going with a 5D and a 17-40L to get me started but I'd hate to sell what I have and take a loss on it.
I don't see anything too horribly wrong with this shot as far as GND is concerned. It's certainly a lot better than my efforts with GNDs on my recent Yellowstone trip.
Kevin
Hey Kevin, right now I just have the kit lens that I use for wide angle work, the 18-55. I also have the 50 f/1.8 that I tend to use for infrared, panos, and full body shots for portrait work. I also have the 85 f/1.8 for head shots and 3/4 body, and the 70-300 VR which hasn't seen much use yet. I plan on shooting mainly landscape, but also will be working on portrait work, perhaps a wedding here and there. I have 2 weddings booked for next year that just happen to fall into my lap.
I have considered trying to get a couple wider primes, but I'd rather have a smaller range zoom to dedicate to landscape. I've been looking into the 17-35 2.8, but that's still pricey. I have no issues forking out the money for good gear that will last because I take great care of everything that I have. With the announcement of the 5D replacement coming soon, I am really really curious to see what it will be featuring for a potential purchase, or even scoring a 5D brand new since they are still plentiful right now. I think going FF would be great for landscape and portrait. I don't really see myself shooting too much telephoto right now, but that could always change and probably will later on. I could also fund a crop body as a backup and for extra reach with the longer lenses.
I've never been a GND user (I should try) so I think these first attempts on your part look pretty good. This image seems to be tilted quite a bit clockwise to my eye, or at least that's the feeling I get from it.
JG
You're already a Nikon shooter, why not a D700? Having said that, you may also want to consider the Nikon 18-70 3.5-4.5. It's a DX lens, but very sharp and can be had used for around $250. If you go with the D700, the Tamron 28-75 2.8 is also an option, great optics, very inexpensive.
Edward
www.edwardthomasart.com
Add a 20mm, 24mm, 35mm, and you're done, or the 18-35mm FF.
1st and foremost - get it level. Your image appears to be slanted a bit down to the right. This can be such an annoying killer of an otherwise excellent image. Trust me when I say I have PLENTY of experience is creating lopsided images....DOH!
2nd decide which GND best fits the scene. If you have a spot meter of any worth in your camera or on a handheld light meter figure out the exposure difference of the mountain to the reflection of the mountain. You ultimately want to balance the two with the GND so they are the same exposure. A good starting point is a 2-stop GND for a shot like yours.
3rd use your depth of field preview to set the blend line. Typically I shoot an image like this with some sort of foreground to ground the lower part of the scene which means I will shoot at F/11. With depth of field preview at F/11 you will easily see the blend line in the viewfinder. Move it up or down and/or tilt it left right to balance it so it doesn't nip the tops of the trees/ridges and make them black. If you go look at http://www.ramblinlamb.com and take a look at the cover image the tops of the trees on the right are just a bit dark from the GND. I didn't quite tilt the GND in it's holder quite enough. But the good news is only us fotogs would notice that bit of a fopah on my part.
Now that you have your shot setup snap off a frame and give it a very close review on the LCD minding the histogram. Adjust accordingly and nail that killer image!!
Other than the bit of tilt to the right I like this image quite well and I think that you did a great job with the gear you had in hand. Do know that the Canon 17-40mm F/2.8 L Series lens DOES have a bit of barrel distortion at 17mm. So even an otherwise great lens still can have some weaknesses.
Barrel distortion can be easily fixed with a nifty tool called PTLens. Google it and you will find the website for it. Best $15.00 I've ever spent!!
The image is slanted and it irritates me because I spent a lot of time in the dark mumbling four letter words trying to get the tripod to report as being level and I thought I had it down until I got home and noticed all of my images were slanted. Chalk up another learning experience. I have read a lot about different ways to use GNDs and one of the recommendations I saw was to keep the foreground about 1 stop brighter. I'm still trying to figure out the conversions for the f/stops to balance things out and it will all come in time. I was pleased to see that on quite a few of my shots the exposure seemed pretty well balanced without any clipping on the left or right, but I did also bracket exposures to be on the safe side in case I needed to do some blending. I plan on getting a 3 stop hard and soft, as well as a 3 stop reverse. I am sure I will probably use the 3 stop filters a tad more than the 2 stop one and might even need to double up a 3/2 combo for the extreme lighting that I will eventually run into.
Edward, thanks for the info about the D700. I have had my eye on the D700 but I have also heard the IQ on it isn't as great as some expected with others mentioning the 5D still holds the torch in IQ when compared. I am not sure of the validity of that and would hate to spend $3K on the body if that were true when I could essentially score the 5D and 17-40L for around the same price brand new and have a killer set up but I would love nothing more than to not sell my gear and change systems because I really love how sharp my primes are, and that 70-300 is a wicked set of glass for the price compared to its bigger brother.
My recent plans have been to get the 18-70 for the D70s and have it converted to IR once I get a new body. I've read that most places calibrate the D70s to the 18-70 so it seems right to have it to ensure the focus is straight on target. That's a whole different talk show, but I am trying to put together a laundry list that I can stick with when it comes to what gear to buy. I just need to find a way to fund it. My ski mask hasn't been worn too much lately but I am gonna have to keep that item of clothing on the slopes, haha.