I think the car is a Buick circa, 1941 or '42, but honestly don't know that with certainty.
Thanks for your help.
Carol
Posted by Benjamin Glatt on September 4, 2008 at 3:42 PM
It's not a Buick. It's a Pontiac. Looks like a 1949 Pontiac Chieftain Sedan. Here's a link with a picture. Notice the placement of the door handles, split back window and hub over the back wheel.
Posted by Carol Hyman on September 4, 2008 at 8:18 PM
Benjamin and others who have looked at the images too ...
Even though you sound so positive on your ID, I'm not so sure about the Pontiac idea. Pontiac always had stripes--somewhere. Check out the rear fender on this guy ... Image:Pontiac Chieftain 1952 and if you compare it to: abandoned car
there is no evidence that the metal striping was removed.
ARGH. What a mystery. Great opportunity for me to drive to Beaver Dam, check out the bar, and talk to the locals from the area.
It's definitely the Pontiac. I photograph a lot of vintage autos. If you look at the chrome ornament on the trunk (rear) in the first shot, it's identical to the Pontiac chrome ornaments of this era- it's simply missing the round centerpiece because they are collectible. You can see where it's been removed. It may be the '52 though and not the '49. Carol, I'm not sure why you see no evidence of the metal striping being removed... every place where metal chrome strips should be present, the entire fender or piece of fender or entire hood is actually missing, so there's the "evidence". My only reason for stating it's the '52 and not '49 is if you look at the shape of the chrome strip just below the left rear window, you see that the '52 has a basically straight line. The '49 instead has a slight kind of French curve to the lower line of the chrome. I have not seen a photo of a '50 or '51, so they may also be possibilities. The Pontiac Chieftain is clearly the correct model though-- I've compared each curve and line & everything matches. Google images finds plenty of them from all angles. I've been to lots of antique auto shows, and when I saw this I right away said "Pontiac" with no doubt in my mind. --Anna Lisa
Posted by Carol Hyman on September 5, 2008 at 2:48 AM
The car I found shows no evidence of metal strips having been removed from the trunk.
Also, the vehicle I found shows a chrome strip around the rear fender and shows no evidence of chrome being removed from the bottom half of the fender. If you look at the above pictures of the 50 to 59 pontiacs, they show a smooth fender attached to the body and chrome strips in the bottom half of the fender in front of the wheel covers.
In the interim, I've written to a former co-worker in Detroit to see if he knows anyone at GM that can help.
ARGH.
Carol
Posted by John De Bord on September 5, 2008 at 4:36 AM
If you look at the shape of the rear window, (window behind the driver's seat) it's just not the same as the Dodge. Wrong shape-- the Pontiac has a more sloping, less squared off shape. Also, yup, you're right, Carol, the ornament on the trunk (rear) in the first picture (Where's the driver) doesn't match Dodge ornaments. It matches the Pontiac though. There were different models, some more "souped up" which to me explains the missing chrome-- and as I said before, the places where chrome would be are not even there-- there's no hood, & bottom of the fender is missing. Chrome on the fenders varied too. --Anna Lisa
If you look at the shape of the rear window, (window behind the driver's seat) it's just not the same as the Dodge. Wrong shape-- the Pontiac has a more sloping, less squared off shape. Also, yup, you're right, Carol, the ornament on the trunk (rear) in the first picture (Where's the driver) doesn't match Dodge ornaments. It matches the Pontiac though. There were different models, some more "souped up" which to me explains the missing chrome-- and as I said before, the places where chrome would be are not even there-- there's no hood, & bottom of the fender is missing. Chrome on the fenders varied too. --Anna Lisa
oops, sorry to post that twice-- comes from flipping back & forth. I looked up trunk ornaments on Pymouths. No match there either. I mean, look at that trunk ornament-- it exactly matches the shape of the Pontiacs. All that's missing is the center medallion, & you can see it's been taken off. I still don't understand the problem with missing chrome strips, either. There's no hood on the car in the photo at all! Or did you find a hood nearby? Remember too that these cars were often repainted and trim taken off-- it's easy to make it look like there never was any.... people do this all the time.
Posted by Carol Hyman on September 5, 2008 at 3:23 PM
Anna Lisa, I'm still leaning towards a 49-51 Plymouth.
I finally wrote to edmunds.com and sent them the images.
The folks who vandalized this old derelict did an excellent job; no doors, no hood. I do need to go down to the site wearing jeans and boots, and a 500mm lens to see if I can get any other items that might help for ID.
We all owned very old cars in the neighborhood where I grew up. My first car was a '38 Chevy. and I helped rebuild the engine of a 41' Ford, and yes, we hung out at a local gas station
So I guess my interest in this comes naturally.
Thanks for your help. And hopefully, Edmunds will have a definitive answer.
Carol
Posted by John De Bord on September 6, 2008 at 6:26 AM
I certainly wouldn't compare a modern emblem to a old one Carol, they have changed many times over the years, Dodge even used to have a Hebrew Star of David in theirs :) 50 Dodge though is a good example, and if it isn't a Dodge then it's brother Plymouth it be! I don't think it's a Pontiac, they had long rear tails on them, and this one has that 'hump' which indicates short, like a Mopar. http://tinyurl.com/62hukj In fact, there is your rear trunk emblem. Remove the top and center pieces and wallah!
Posted by Carol Hyman on September 6, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Hi John, Thanks for the pointer to the Plymouth on eBay. I had seen that emblem and like you, I thought to myself, it looks as though it might come apart in 3 pieces.
It might also be a Chevy--same vintage. I'm leaning that way at the moment since the Chevys had a piece of stainless steel/chrome around the fenders; the Plymouth didn't.
I've written to Edmunds and am waiting to hear back from them and I've also contacted a former co-worker who may still have some contacts in the GM auto industry in Detroit.
If nothing else, John, this has been a time-intensive project. And I want to return to the car to do it's portrait when it's not raining.
It's all in the details-- look at the little things. First off, no, the Pontiacs did not all have long rear tails. Secondly, the Plymouth shown in the tinyurl link, including its emblem, is all wrong. Placement of the emblem on trunk is way off... our abandoned mystery car has emblem near bottom of trunk. Not so on the Plymouth. Its emblem is much higher. Shapes of windows & even config. of divided parts is wrong. Thirdly, notice the front windows, folks. Many of cars pictured have angled divided windows on front. Not so w/ mystery car. Front window is divided but totally flat. No angle in steel above window either. Fourth, look at small things such as wiper mounts, shape of door handles, and very importantly, shapes of interior of engine compartment. The only thing I find not matching w/ Pontiac is the chrome trim around the fender. Could be an addition, or could be custom. In the following links, check out the steering wheel, engine compartment, and trunk emblems. Here you go... if links don't work, I'll tinyurl the one, and redo the other:
ETA: no luck creating a link, and tinyurl didn't work for me this time... sorry.
Posted by Amy Lindsey on September 17, 2008 at 9:34 PM
Carol,
I asked my dad for help identifying your old car. Being an avid antique car collector and car rebuilder for nearly 50 years, he knows just about everything there is to know about cars. He has had nearly 1000 in his life and keeps a regular collection of about 80-100. He says it is a 1949-1951 Chevy. I should add that he's got everything from 1920s Model Ts (or As or whatever- he's the guru, not me) to modern era Mustangs, but most of his cars are of the 1940s-early '60s variety. Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs, you name it.
Based on the responses here, I guess you have a wide choice of automobiles! You may want to check out Hemmings online. They are a magazine for car fanatics and will probably have some pictures.
Good luck!
Posted by Carol Hyman on September 17, 2008 at 9:45 PM
Hi guys,
I've been remiss in not saying thank you for all of the ideas. As Amy's Dad says, it appears to be a 50 or 51 4-Door Chevy, most likely a bottom of the line Styleline. I've been in communication with car museums and junk yards and have been back to shoot some details such as the location of the controls (throttle, choke, and starter on the dash), the shape of the back bumper; I even found the muffler. I've heard all kinds of stories about why the car is there. The next step is heading over to the DMV but they are about 20 miles away and I just have gotten around to it.
Thanks again.
Carol
Posted by Amy Lindsey on September 17, 2008 at 9:59 PM
Posted by Carol Hyman on September 17, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Hi Amy,
That last link http://www.oldmemorieslosangeles.us/-%20New%20Folder%20(2)/carsales2.jpg appears to be the closest image (among the literally thousands I've reviewed) to the car I've found. Here's a side view and the rear bumper looks very similar. The emblem on the trunk could be three or four pieces. The car I found was so wrecked and rusted, there was no way to determine if there had been trim on the front of the rear fender
Discussion
17 repliesKudos and thanks to anyone who has a longer memory and/or more knowledge than I have.
Here are two versions of the same car:
Where's the Driver?
Target Practice
I think the car is a Buick circa, 1941 or '42, but honestly don't know that with certainty.
Thanks for your help.
Carol
http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Pontiac/1949_Pontiac_Chieftain_Deluxe_Sedan_Sv.jpg
Even though you sound so positive on your ID, I'm not so sure about the Pontiac idea. Pontiac always had stripes--somewhere. Check out the rear fender on this guy ...
Image:Pontiac Chieftain 1952 and if you compare it to:
abandoned car
there is no evidence that the metal striping was removed.
ARGH. What a mystery. Great opportunity for me to drive to Beaver Dam, check out the bar, and talk to the locals from the area.
Carol
All of these Pontiacs have chrome strips going down the truck.
http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Pontiac/Pontiac1950-1959.html
The car I found shows no evidence of metal strips having been removed from the trunk.
Also, the vehicle I found shows a chrome strip around the rear fender and shows no evidence of chrome being removed from the bottom half of the fender. If you look at the above pictures of the 50 to 59 pontiacs, they show a smooth fender attached to the body and chrome strips in the bottom half of the fender in front of the wheel covers.
In the interim, I've written to a former co-worker in Detroit to see if he knows anyone at GM that can help.
ARGH.
Carol
http://www.northrowanalumni.com/Cars/1940_Autos/1949%20DODGE%20MEADOWBROOK%204DOOR.jpg
Pretty rare car actually, they came in 2 versions, a short wheel base, and a long wheel base, which was used mostly for Limo's.
http://www.emblemagic.com/myimages/emblempics/1940sEtc/DC1.jpg
I'm now searching for Plymouth trunk/badge emblems.
I want to get back to the location of the car with a 500mm lens. Maybe I can find some other distinctive markings.
Why am I doing this ???
Carol
I found this:
http://www.allpar.com/cars/plymouth/cars/plymouth-cars.html
and this:
http://flickr.com/photos/98216376@N00/81615708/
I finally wrote to edmunds.com and sent them the images.
The folks who vandalized this old derelict did an excellent job; no doors, no hood. I do need to go down to the site wearing jeans and boots, and a 500mm lens to see if I can get any other items that might help for ID.
We all owned very old cars in the neighborhood where I grew up. My first car was a '38 Chevy. and I helped rebuild the engine of a 41' Ford, and yes, we hung out at a local gas station
So I guess my interest in this comes naturally.
Thanks for your help. And hopefully, Edmunds will have a definitive answer.
Carol
It might also be a Chevy--same vintage. I'm leaning that way at the moment since the Chevys had a piece of stainless steel/chrome around the fenders; the Plymouth didn't.
I've written to Edmunds and am waiting to hear back from them and I've also contacted a former co-worker who may still have some contacts in the GM auto industry in Detroit.
If nothing else, John, this has been a time-intensive project. And I want to return to the car to do it's portrait when it's not raining.
Thanks for your time.
Carol
http://classiccars.com/9140.car
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.1952pontiac.com/viewer/1952_Pontiac.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.1952pontiac.com/index.php%3Fgo%3Dmemrides&h=360&w=540&sz=59&hl=en&start=19&um=1&usg=__T9Hd5z5xyONRI2YV5stk05Ahwyk=&tbnid=x1Bpg3N1Imf-wM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1952%2BPontiac%2BChieftain%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN
ETA: no luck creating a link, and tinyurl didn't work for me this time... sorry.
I asked my dad for help identifying your old car. Being an avid antique car collector and car rebuilder for nearly 50 years, he knows just about everything there is to know about cars. He has had nearly 1000 in his life and keeps a regular collection of about 80-100. He says it is a 1949-1951 Chevy. I should add that he's got everything from 1920s Model Ts (or As or whatever- he's the guru, not me) to modern era Mustangs, but most of his cars are of the 1940s-early '60s variety. Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs, you name it.
Based on the responses here, I guess you have a wide choice of automobiles! You may want to check out Hemmings online. They are a magazine for car fanatics and will probably have some pictures.
Good luck!
I've been remiss in not saying thank you for all of the ideas. As Amy's Dad says, it appears to be a 50 or 51 4-Door Chevy, most likely a bottom of the line Styleline. I've been in communication with car museums and junk yards and have been back to shoot some details such as the location of the controls (throttle, choke, and starter on the dash), the shape of the back bumper; I even found the muffler. I've heard all kinds of stories about why the car is there. The next step is heading over to the DMV but they are about 20 miles away and I just have gotten around to it.
Thanks again.
Carol
http://www.desertclassics.com/chevrolet2.html
http://www.dannyspears.com/wishwekept.htm
http://www.oldmemorieslosangeles.us/-%20New%20Folder%20(2)/carsales2.jpg
That last link http://www.oldmemorieslosangeles.us/-%20New%20Folder%20(2)/carsales2.jpg appears to be the closest image (among the literally thousands I've reviewed) to the car I've found. Here's a side view and the rear bumper looks very similar. The emblem on the trunk could be three or four pieces. The car I found was so wrecked and rusted, there was no way to determine if there had been trim on the front of the rear fender
Thanks for your hard work.
Carol