Posted by Rob Howard on September 7, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Hi All,
I have recently purchased some Sandisk 4gb cards, to use mainly in a 1Ds MKII. Recently I have been having erratic problems. This includes only showing a very low number of images availiable (has been as low as 18) on a formatted 4gb card ( I normally have in the region of 200). Also when the card is full a message appears on the back of my 1Ds MKII asking me if I want to accept continuos file numbering? If I do this it seems to "wipe" the images and start fresh?? Not sure if this is a camera or card issue, if it is camera I cannot find in the custom functions how to deactivate this option??
Any help would be greatly appreciated as would a good source to get some new cards ( I got these ones from china on ebay)
I had something similar happen to me in a bad situation. I had a shoot on a 4GB sandisk CF and after copying the images to my computer etc my hard drive failed (pre-backup). So I thought I'd lost the shoot. Checked my memory card to see if the images were still there - the LCD screen shows "no image" but I never checked the number of remaining images. After getting my HD fixed I plugged the card back into my reader and lo and behold the shoot was there! It appeared the memory card was hiding them from the camera.
I re-copied them and formatted the card and never came across the problem again. It might be that I formatted the card on my OS rather than in camera but I've never needed to work out what the problem was.
Beyond trying that I'd check other forums/google for an answer if you haven't already done so.
Good Luck,
Chris
Posted by stewart canham on September 7, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Rob are you sure that they ARE!! Sandisk cards and not replicas??
The 1-series handle files and folders a bit differently to the consumer cameras and can take a bit of getting used to when you first start using them. You should find that the cards have a series of folders on them - something like 101, 102 etc. Your images are stored in them. When you start a new folder - is you go over 9999 images in a sequence, then the camera asks to create a new folder number and then starts storing the images in the new folder. If you then insert a card without that folder number, it doesn't warn you - instead using the lower number. As it approaches the folder roll-over, it counts down the shots remaing to the roll-over, not the qty remaing on the card - hence you'll see far less than you think you should have available. They 'appear' when the new folder is created.
It's darned confusing at first, but you get used to it eventually. I've found that if you hit a folder change the best thing to do is atop and create the new folders on every card you use.... That way you don't get confused in the future and end up with numbering problems.
(hope it makes some sense as I'm typing on a mobile connection! Will try and explain more later when I'm back home and on broadband.)
Posted by Rob Howard on September 7, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Hi All,
They will sometimes work fine, but the problem seems to occur when I fill the card up and get the messaage about continuous numbering. I normally now stop with a few images left on the card then transfer to PC, check all is on PC ok, then format card in camera, it is then that I am getting a random number of total images left on the card. This matter has been made worse by the fact that I had to format a card I wanted to keep whilst up in Norfolk last week, I had downloaded the card to my laptop, but when I got home yesterday to transfer ther RAW images to my PC my laptop went pop So I am hoping I can get the laptop fixed without losing the images
rob - it's not a fault with the card or camera - it's the way it was designed to work. Will explain later a unless someone else fills you in...
Posted by Rob Howard on September 7, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Hi Nick,
Yep, read your post as I was typing the above reply, think I understand it . The 1Ds seems to be the only body that does this (my 2 1D MKII do not), Anyway feel free to post further explanation later
Posted by Rob Howard on September 7, 2008 at 4:53 PM
No!!! Now I'm really confused When my MKII has filled a card it flashes card full, thats all it does, simple put in new card away you go. I have just finished a card off in a MKII, put it in my 1Ds MKII and it says it has 88 images left on there
Both the bodies are set to continuous numbering. I can't understand how a card that is full of images would have 88 images left on it by putting it in another body? Also how do I find these "folders" on the card/body?
My email is down at the moment due to my laptop going pop. Thanks for the link Tom
Right - the camera is set to continuous numbering so that when you put a card in the file number sequence continues where it left off on the previous card. This number sequence is remembered across a card reformat, or using different (multiple) cards. The folder number is independant of the the file number and generally starts at 100, then switches to 101, 102 etc. Each folder can contain file sequence numbers from 0 to 9999. The folder sequence isn't remembered across a card reformat.
Now, this is where the fun starts.... normally the camera will show the number of images that the memory card can hold...in reality this is actually the number of images the folder can hold. When the file number approaches the 9999 limit, the no. of images remaining will be that left until it reaches 9999 - even if there is room for more images on a card. So, if a card can hold 200 images and the file number is 0352, then the number of shots remaining on the card will show 200 and will go down each time you press the shutter. If the file number is 9911, then the camera will show 88 images available - even though there is still room for another 112 images. Once the camera reaches 9999, it will show 0 images free and will prompt you to create a new folder (say 101). Once you create the new folder, then the shots remaining counter will show 112 images. On the card you will have two folders - say 100 and 101. In folder 100, you'll find the first 88 images, and in folder 101 you'll find the remaining 112 images.
The headaches begin now... if the next card you put in doesn't have folder 101 on it, the camera doesn't prompt you to create the folder (nor does it create it for you), it simply switches to using the 100 folder... when you put the 101 card back in heaven knows which it'll use .
There are ways out of the mess...but it relies on you 'managing' the cards - just be gratefull it's only every 9999 shots and not every 999 as it is on the prosumer cameras. How... if you use continuous numbering then, when you hit a folder number change, you have to stop and create the new folder on every card you're currently using in that camera. Once you've downloaded the images (and checked them), then you need to delete the older folder so you don't accidently re-use it and screw up the number sequences.
But wait - it gets worse ... if you use continuous numbering, then you need to keep separate cards for each camera you use and not mix them, or you end up with a nightmare mess to clean up on file numbers and potential duplicate numbers... Why - because the file number always uses the highest file number it is presented with...if the last file on the card (eg 0900) is higher numbered than the camera stored number (eg 0800), then the next file stored will be 0901. If the camera file number is higher (eg 0950) than the card (eg 900), then the camera number is used, 0952, 0953 etc. If you mix and match cards between cameras, then the numbering rapidly goes up the chute!
It's dead simple really...
1) Keep separate cards for each camera and don't mix them.
2) When a folder gets full, take all the cards for that camera and manually create the new folder number on each card.
3) When a card is full, never reformat it just delete the images. If you reformat the card, then you need to remember to recreate the folder. By the time you get to using folder 110 you don't reformat very often .
4) When you download the images, delete the old redundant folder number from the cards.
or
5) Don't use continous numbering - use reset each time and renumber all the files on you computer.
I've used 1-4 for several years now on two different camera bodies with 6-8 different cards and have had little trouble (only due to operator error!). The frames remaining counter still catches me out when I approach a 9999 change-over though.
If you're still non-the wiser, then give me a call tomorrow and I'll try and explain it...
Posted by eric weight on September 8, 2008 at 1:51 AM
My God, I wonder how much somebody earned coming up with an idea as ridiculous as that!!!
Posted by Rob Howard on September 8, 2008 at 5:27 AM
Hi Nick,
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I think the fog is clearing and it seems a little clearer.
This first happened up at Bempton a few weeks ago when I spent an hour filling up a card and was asked the question about continuing, accepted it,then wanted to check the images and they were not there, but now what you have said makes sense about the file's. Might be a bit difficult keeping the same cards for the same cameras in the ehat of the battle! so may well change it from continuos numbering.
Eric - It's all about keeping the numbers unique on a camera/card. Similar things happen on most cameras, just most folks never discover the problems because they use 1 or 2 cards and a single camera. If you had a big enough card to store 10000 shots on it (or 999 on a 40D/400D etc) then you'd have similar issues.
For most people it really only starts to become a problem when you use several cameras at the same time. The D30/D60/10D etc will all use the highest number they find on card/camera, and so can lose the unique continuous number sequence if cards are shared between cameras. FWIW, I've actually lost more images from a D60 due to folder/file number issues than I have from a 1-series. Most prosumer folks renumber/rename their image files anyway, so uniqueness isn't an issue for them... for some of us that shoot large volumes with different cameras, uniqueness becomes an issue. If you've shot more than 6K-8K images in a weekend using a couple of different cameras, then manual renaming isn't an option! I've a large library, spanning several years, with over 160K images across 4+ cameras and each image is uniquely numbered (automatically).
Recently Canon have changed the way the folder number on the 1-series works to automatically create a new folder and carry on....but you have to have a MkIII 1-series for that. Most of the prosumer cameras will autocreate the folder for you. Quite why they ever designed the system the way they did is beyond me...after all I doubt anyone has ever said 'no' to creating the new folder - there is no real choice in the matter, you need a new folder!
Rob, keeping cards separate becomes easy with time... you just develop strategies to cope with it. It's the same sort of methodology that people used to have to adopt when they used large amounts of film... separate pouches for B&W & colour, for exposed & non-exposed etc. It's about having a workflow, knowing it and sticking to it .
Rob - you can still see the images on the camera, when you switch the view between the multiview/single/histogram, you also have another screen for card management. It allows you to switch between CF and SD cards, switch folder numbers, and create new folders. After the file number roll-over+folder change, you need to select the older folder number to view the older shots. You can switch back & forth between the folders using the menus. Most cards have a writtable area on the back of them - use different coloured permanent markers to number the cards eg DS-1/DS-2/D-1 etc or use a different coloured 'dot'.
I'd also invest in Chris Breeze's 'DownloaderPro' program for the PC as it makes downloading and renumbering the files straight from card/camera dead easy (it automatically "see's" into all the folders on a card). It's about the only bit of software that doesn't have a direct equivalent on the Mac - there are some but they're nowhere near as flexible or as good .
Discussion
15 repliesI have recently purchased some Sandisk 4gb cards, to use mainly in a 1Ds MKII. Recently I have been having erratic problems. This includes only showing a very low number of images availiable (has been as low as 18) on a formatted 4gb card ( I normally have in the region of 200). Also when the card is full a message appears on the back of my 1Ds MKII asking me if I want to accept continuos file numbering? If I do this it seems to "wipe" the images and start fresh?? Not sure if this is a camera or card issue, if it is camera I cannot find in the custom functions how to deactivate this option??
Any help would be greatly appreciated as would a good source to get some new cards ( I got these ones from china on ebay)
Regards
Rob
I had something similar happen to me in a bad situation. I had a shoot on a 4GB sandisk CF and after copying the images to my computer etc my hard drive failed (pre-backup). So I thought I'd lost the shoot. Checked my memory card to see if the images were still there - the LCD screen shows "no image" but I never checked the number of remaining images. After getting my HD fixed I plugged the card back into my reader and lo and behold the shoot was there! It appeared the memory card was hiding them from the camera.
I re-copied them and formatted the card and never came across the problem again. It might be that I formatted the card on my OS rather than in camera but I've never needed to work out what the problem was.
Beyond trying that I'd check other forums/google for an answer if you haven't already done so.
Good Luck,
Chris
Stewart.......
The 1-series handle files and folders a bit differently to the consumer cameras and can take a bit of getting used to when you first start using them. You should find that the cards have a series of folders on them - something like 101, 102 etc. Your images are stored in them. When you start a new folder - is you go over 9999 images in a sequence, then the camera asks to create a new folder number and then starts storing the images in the new folder. If you then insert a card without that folder number, it doesn't warn you - instead using the lower number. As it approaches the folder roll-over, it counts down the shots remaing to the roll-over, not the qty remaing on the card - hence you'll see far less than you think you should have available. They 'appear' when the new folder is created.
It's darned confusing at first, but you get used to it eventually. I've found that if you hit a folder change the best thing to do is atop and create the new folders on every card you use.... That way you don't get confused in the future and end up with numbering problems.
(hope it makes some sense as I'm typing on a mobile connection! Will try and explain more later when I'm back home and on broadband.)
They will sometimes work fine, but the problem seems to occur when I fill the card up and get the messaage about continuous numbering. I normally now stop with a few images left on the card then transfer to PC, check all is on PC ok, then format card in camera, it is then that I am getting a random number of total images left on the card. This matter has been made worse by the fact that I had to format a card I wanted to keep whilst up in Norfolk last week, I had downloaded the card to my laptop, but when I got home yesterday to transfer ther RAW images to my PC my laptop went pop
Regards
Rob
Yep, read your post as I was typing the above reply, think I understand it
Cheers
Rob
Page 64 in the manual ...
T
I don't have the manual!!
Both the bodies are set to continuous numbering. I can't understand how a card that is full of images would have 88 images left on it by putting it in another body? Also how do I find these "folders" on the card/body?
My email is down at the moment due to my laptop going pop. Thanks for the link Tom
Rob
Now, this is where the fun starts.... normally the camera will show the number of images that the memory card can hold...in reality this is actually the number of images the folder can hold. When the file number approaches the 9999 limit, the no. of images remaining will be that left until it reaches 9999 - even if there is room for more images on a card. So, if a card can hold 200 images and the file number is 0352, then the number of shots remaining on the card will show 200 and will go down each time you press the shutter. If the file number is 9911, then the camera will show 88 images available - even though there is still room for another 112 images. Once the camera reaches 9999, it will show 0 images free and will prompt you to create a new folder (say 101). Once you create the new folder, then the shots remaining counter will show 112 images. On the card you will have two folders - say 100 and 101. In folder 100, you'll find the first 88 images, and in folder 101 you'll find the remaining 112 images.
The headaches begin now... if the next card you put in doesn't have folder 101 on it, the camera doesn't prompt you to create the folder (nor does it create it for you), it simply switches to using the 100 folder... when you put the 101 card back in heaven knows which it'll use
There are ways out of the mess...but it relies on you 'managing' the cards - just be gratefull it's only every 9999 shots and not every 999 as it is on the prosumer cameras. How... if you use continuous numbering then, when you hit a folder number change, you have to stop and create the new folder on every card you're currently using in that camera. Once you've downloaded the images (and checked them), then you need to delete the older folder so you don't accidently re-use it and screw up the number sequences.
But wait - it gets worse
It's dead simple really...
1) Keep separate cards for each camera and don't mix them.
2) When a folder gets full, take all the cards for that camera and manually create the new folder number on each card.
3) When a card is full, never reformat it just delete the images. If you reformat the card, then you need to remember to recreate the folder. By the time you get to using folder 110 you don't reformat very often
4) When you download the images, delete the old redundant folder number from the cards.
or
5) Don't use continous numbering - use reset each time and renumber all the files on you computer.
I've used 1-4 for several years now on two different camera bodies with 6-8 different cards and have had little trouble (only due to operator error!). The frames remaining counter still catches me out when I approach a 9999 change-over though.
If you're still non-the wiser, then give me a call tomorrow and I'll try and explain it...
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I think the fog is clearing and it seems a little clearer.
This first happened up at Bempton a few weeks ago when I spent an hour filling up a card and was asked the question about continuing, accepted it,then wanted to check the images and they were not there, but now what you have said makes sense about the file's. Might be a bit difficult keeping the same cards for the same cameras in the ehat of the battle! so may well change it from continuos numbering.
Cheers Nick
Rob
For most people it really only starts to become a problem when you use several cameras at the same time. The D30/D60/10D etc will all use the highest number they find on card/camera, and so can lose the unique continuous number sequence if cards are shared between cameras. FWIW, I've actually lost more images from a D60 due to folder/file number issues than I have from a 1-series. Most prosumer folks renumber/rename their image files anyway, so uniqueness isn't an issue for them... for some of us that shoot large volumes with different cameras, uniqueness becomes an issue. If you've shot more than 6K-8K images in a weekend using a couple of different cameras, then manual renaming isn't an option! I've a large library, spanning several years, with over 160K images across 4+ cameras and each image is uniquely numbered (automatically).
Recently Canon have changed the way the folder number on the 1-series works to automatically create a new folder and carry on....but you have to have a MkIII 1-series for that. Most of the prosumer cameras will autocreate the folder for you. Quite why they ever designed the system the way they did is beyond me...after all I doubt anyone has ever said 'no' to creating the new folder - there is no real choice in the matter, you need a new folder!
Rob, keeping cards separate becomes easy with time... you just develop strategies to cope with it. It's the same sort of methodology that people used to have to adopt when they used large amounts of film... separate pouches for B&W & colour, for exposed & non-exposed etc. It's about having a workflow, knowing it and sticking to it
Rob - you can still see the images on the camera, when you switch the view between the multiview/single/histogram, you also have another screen for card management. It allows you to switch between CF and SD cards, switch folder numbers, and create new folders. After the file number roll-over+folder change, you need to select the older folder number to view the older shots. You can switch back & forth between the folders using the menus. Most cards have a writtable area on the back of them - use different coloured permanent markers to number the cards eg DS-1/DS-2/D-1 etc or use a different coloured 'dot'.
I'd also invest in Chris Breeze's 'DownloaderPro' program for the PC as it makes downloading and renumbering the files straight from card/camera dead easy (it automatically "see's" into all the folders on a card). It's about the only bit of software that doesn't have a direct equivalent on the Mac - there are some but they're nowhere near as flexible or as good