I have a client who needs a fixed-mount setup to automatically take one shot per hour, 24-hours per day, 7 days a week for 36 days. It also has to feed automatically to a server, and meanwhile be weatherproof. These are documentary shots rather than artistic, and they will be used individually as well as assembled into a looped slide show for the web.
I've suggested a COHU weatherproof security camera (pretty standard for outdoor applications up here) using frame-grabber software to pull individual frames on a timer.
Basically I think he's got his heart set on a DSLR with appropriate weatherproof housing, trigger and software. I suspect the costs/logistics on that setup will be horrendous, but the only way to talk him out of it may be to draw up the specs and show him what it will cost-- if it can be made to work. He definitely does not need DSLR image quality or size, but he may be hoping to hang the camera over his shoulder once the job is done.
Anyone have alternatives to the COHU?
Anyone ever set up a similar fixture using a DSLR?
Anyone know of an alternative approach to the COHU or a DSLR?
I'm on the edge of clueless with this one so all help is appreciated.
Posted by Carol Hyman on September 17, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Hi Hank, Nikon D200 can do this; so can D70, D90, some Canons, and other equipment.
Posted by Arlen Fletcher on September 17, 2008 at 12:33 PM
So, if he goes the DSLR route, how will he keep the battery alive for that long? Also, since you're posting from Alaska, I suspect this camera is going to be seeing some rather low temps... That'll cut down battery life further, of course. Maybe it'll need a heater in the weatherproof enclosure?
Anyway, if he can solve the battery issue, he might be able to use a Canon DSLR and a PC running a custom-written application to do the timing and image transfer. Seems pretty spendy to me!
Posted by David Bostedo on September 17, 2008 at 12:59 PM
I don't know much about the various SLR intervalometers, but my Canon S2 IS will shut off between exposures; Then, when it's time, it will come back on, zoom, focus, take a photo, and shut back down. It won't do it over that length of time, but if an SLR intervalometer can do it, that might work. Does the D200's (or other Nikon's) shut the camera down between exposures?
Questions:
No doubt a D200 and probably D300 could do this. What kind of platform and housing would be involved? Is an independent power supply available? I know the D300 can run on other than camera batteries and probably the D200 as well. How about heating and stability in heavy wind? Is this a sheltered location? With over 6K images to take, some necessary interval card changes would be necessary. Does this setup require start to finish hands free? Is this in a traffic area, where the temptation to steal a DSLR might overcome someone? The mind boggles at the difficulties and expense!
Posted by Richard Hahn on September 17, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Hank,
Good afternoon. What about one of the digital camera stations that hunters use in the woods to see activity in the area where they plan to hunt? While I am not that familar with them I do know that some of them will transmitt the photo to a remote computer.
1. Indoors on a fixed mount high up in a power generation facility to document the full disassembly, overhaul and reassembly of an enormous diesel generator. Due to the high potential for ambient electrical interference, any remote coms with the PC or FTP need to be ethernet.
2. Outdoors in cold, also from a fixed mount on a utility pole, to document construction of three large wind generators on an exposed ridge. Power and coms are available onsite, though it will have to contend with extremes of temperature, wind and humidity.
The D200/D300 looks good for the indoor ap with a WT-4A transmitter ($700+) which will function both wireless and via ethernet.
The only housings I'm finding are intended for underwater use, ranging from the soft EWA U-BXP @ $400 to the rigid Aquatech D2 @ $1650. Downside is that neither have features for heating, and especially for frost melting or removal.
A pocket camera such as the Canon S2IS such as David suggests might work for the indoor application, but I don't see that it's available any more. If a pocket camera was not capable of hardwire or wireless image transfer it would require daily changes of memory cards and manual downloads. That would entail daily work stoppage to position a personnel lift and hoist someone 3 stories to the elevated mount to accomplish the task. Basically, a pocket camera would have to be capable of harwire or wireless coms with a PC over a distance of about 200 feet to the control room of the power plant.
Fun project, with this fixed setup a "side show" to the main shooting we'll be doing with handheld cameras. Understandably the client would rather pay our day rate only when needed to cover specific activities rather than 6 days a week for 36 shoting days (the generator rebuild) followed by 6 days a week for 3+ months needed to install the wind generators. Though I'd love all that work, the thought of keeping fingers warm, not to mention batteries, for five months this winter is a bit daunting.
Interesting idea, though I think most are activated by an IR trigger rather than a timer. I'll check into it!
Posted by Steve Foss on September 17, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Hank, Jim Brandenburg did this with a Canon DSLR a couple-three years ago up here in the woods outside Ely. The Canon "1" series bodies and mid-range 20D/30D/40D/50D, etc, have wireless remote transmission capabilities. My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think he actually used a 20D, and I think he had it rigged on the lowest jpeg size and was capturing automatic timed images at much faster intervals than your client needs but with the same goal, to pull them together into a time-lapse video. I haven't spoken about it with him since then to see how it went, but generally, when Jim sets out to do something he does it.
I don't know what he's up to lately but I did see his personal vehicle parked next to the gallery this morning. You might give him a call and see if he's around. The numbers are (218) 365-5105 (home) and (218) 365-6563 (gallery). When I've been able to track him down, he's been very helpful on technical matters.
I'm going to continue assembling #'s and sources for the client to give hime a better idea of the magnitude of the cost in using a DSLR. If he still wants to proceed rather than using a COHU or similar, I'll treasure detailed advice from Jim. As you might guess from the settings I described, the project is well funded and I think I'll be able to pay him for his time.
Posted by Steve Foss on September 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Oh, BTW, the new Canon 5D Mk2 has wireless remote capabilities, too. And not sure about lighting conditions, but if some of the captures are at night, the Mk2 will ramp up iso to a whopping 25,600.
Posted by David Bostedo on September 17, 2008 at 8:13 PM
Hank - I wouldn't suggest using a P&S simply because I don't think any have a built in intervalometer that can be set for days at a time. (At least mine can't, although it's getting old now.)
One other option for image transmission would be a WiFi memory card. The one I've seen most is the Eye-Fi SD card. It's a long shot, since you're more likely to have compact flash cards, but those may exist as well. They wirelessly transmit their contents without the camera needing to have anything special. There are probably drawbacks as well (range?, they're only 2 GB, not sure if you can wirelessly delete, etc) Might be worth a look though.
Posted by Dan Borzynski on September 17, 2008 at 8:30 PM
I believe most of the Canon DSLR's can be powered externally with a separate cord. It is anouther expense, but at least in my 20D manually, they are pretty clear that you shouldn't try to clean the sensor without the camera being externally powered. Probably to keep the lawyers happy...
Anyway, you will still need to deal with the issues of 30 days of weather exposure and everything else raised above.
Interesting idea David, and I can see other apps for the WiFi card. We're pretty well convinced however that anything but hardwire is going to be worthless inside the power plant. You wouldn't believe the signal interference floating through the ether when any of the other generators are running! I appreciate the feedback on the PS, too.
That's good to know about the external power supply on Canons, Dan. It may be academic since I got the quotes for a heated weatherproof housing. There were loud choking noises on the other end of the line when I called my client with the price. If he decides to use the DSLR indoors while relying on the COHU or similar outdoors, then the power supply is definitely back on the table.
After the great help I got here, I felt I should sign back and report the outcome.
The client has gone for the COHU approach, but with a different brand I found for a little less money. We're currently developing a schedule for the normal industrial shooting we'll do over the next 6-12 months. What does it have to do with "nature" photography? All our skills for shooting in cold and/or inclement weather will be brought to bear, and one of the products will be high end landscapes featuring the wind turbines to emphasize the "green-ness" of the enterprise. There will be several calls for aerial phots, which my wife and I both love, even in winter with the doors off a helicopter.
Up side- Lotsa buxx and a very happy long term client.
Down side- It's dragged me kicking and screaming into the world of video. Now my wife is making serious noises about offering video along with conventional services for her weddings. Arrrrgh!!!
Discussion
14 repliesI've suggested a COHU weatherproof security camera (pretty standard for outdoor applications up here) using frame-grabber software to pull individual frames on a timer.
Basically I think he's got his heart set on a DSLR with appropriate weatherproof housing, trigger and software. I suspect the costs/logistics on that setup will be horrendous, but the only way to talk him out of it may be to draw up the specs and show him what it will cost-- if it can be made to work. He definitely does not need DSLR image quality or size, but he may be hoping to hang the camera over his shoulder once the job is done.
Anyone have alternatives to the COHU?
Anyone ever set up a similar fixture using a DSLR?
Anyone know of an alternative approach to the COHU or a DSLR?
I'm on the edge of clueless with this one so all help is appreciated.
See:
Nikon D200 Shooting Menu
And from my reading I gather some of the older point and shoot cameras had the capability...
See:
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t244567-recommendations-for-time-lapse-photography-interval-shooting-correction.html
Carol
Anyway, if he can solve the battery issue, he might be able to use a Canon DSLR and a PC running a custom-written application to do the timing and image transfer. Seems pretty spendy to me!
No doubt a D200 and probably D300 could do this. What kind of platform and housing would be involved? Is an independent power supply available? I know the D300 can run on other than camera batteries and probably the D200 as well. How about heating and stability in heavy wind? Is this a sheltered location? With over 6K images to take, some necessary interval card changes would be necessary. Does this setup require start to finish hands free? Is this in a traffic area, where the temptation to steal a DSLR might overcome someone? The mind boggles at the difficulties and expense!
Good afternoon. What about one of the digital camera stations that hunters use in the woods to see activity in the area where they plan to hunt? While I am not that familar with them I do know that some of them will transmitt the photo to a remote computer.
The camera will be used in two settings:
1. Indoors on a fixed mount high up in a power generation facility to document the full disassembly, overhaul and reassembly of an enormous diesel generator. Due to the high potential for ambient electrical interference, any remote coms with the PC or FTP need to be ethernet.
2. Outdoors in cold, also from a fixed mount on a utility pole, to document construction of three large wind generators on an exposed ridge. Power and coms are available onsite, though it will have to contend with extremes of temperature, wind and humidity.
The D200/D300 looks good for the indoor ap with a WT-4A transmitter ($700+) which will function both wireless and via ethernet.
The only housings I'm finding are intended for underwater use, ranging from the soft EWA U-BXP @ $400 to the rigid Aquatech D2 @ $1650. Downside is that neither have features for heating, and especially for frost melting or removal.
A pocket camera such as the Canon S2IS such as David suggests might work for the indoor application, but I don't see that it's available any more. If a pocket camera was not capable of hardwire or wireless image transfer it would require daily changes of memory cards and manual downloads. That would entail daily work stoppage to position a personnel lift and hoist someone 3 stories to the elevated mount to accomplish the task. Basically, a pocket camera would have to be capable of harwire or wireless coms with a PC over a distance of about 200 feet to the control room of the power plant.
Fun project, with this fixed setup a "side show" to the main shooting we'll be doing with handheld cameras. Understandably the client would rather pay our day rate only when needed to cover specific activities rather than 6 days a week for 36 shoting days (the generator rebuild) followed by 6 days a week for 3+ months needed to install the wind generators. Though I'd love all that work, the thought of keeping fingers warm, not to mention batteries, for five months this winter is a bit daunting.
Interesting idea, though I think most are activated by an IR trigger rather than a timer. I'll check into it!
I don't know what he's up to lately but I did see his personal vehicle parked next to the gallery this morning. You might give him a call and see if he's around. The numbers are (218) 365-5105 (home) and (218) 365-6563 (gallery). When I've been able to track him down, he's been very helpful on technical matters.
I'm going to continue assembling #'s and sources for the client to give hime a better idea of the magnitude of the cost in using a DSLR. If he still wants to proceed rather than using a COHU or similar, I'll treasure detailed advice from Jim. As you might guess from the settings I described, the project is well funded and I think I'll be able to pay him for his time.
One other option for image transmission would be a WiFi memory card. The one I've seen most is the Eye-Fi SD card. It's a long shot, since you're more likely to have compact flash cards, but those may exist as well. They wirelessly transmit their contents without the camera needing to have anything special. There are probably drawbacks as well (range?, they're only 2 GB, not sure if you can wirelessly delete, etc) Might be worth a look though.
Anyway, you will still need to deal with the issues of 30 days of weather exposure and everything else raised above.
That's good to know about the external power supply on Canons, Dan. It may be academic since I got the quotes for a heated weatherproof housing. There were loud choking noises on the other end of the line when I called my client with the price.
The client has gone for the COHU approach, but with a different brand I found for a little less money. We're currently developing a schedule for the normal industrial shooting we'll do over the next 6-12 months. What does it have to do with "nature" photography? All our skills for shooting in cold and/or inclement weather will be brought to bear, and one of the products will be high end landscapes featuring the wind turbines to emphasize the "green-ness" of the enterprise. There will be several calls for aerial phots, which my wife and I both love, even in winter with the doors off a helicopter.
Up side- Lotsa buxx and a very happy long term client.
Down side- It's dragged me kicking and screaming into the world of video. Now my wife is making serious noises about offering video along with conventional services for her weddings. Arrrrgh!!!