The above isn't a good image, so please don't critique it.
It is posted to show current progress in digital photography and cameras.
Those that know me will be aware that I have owned a 617 camera for about 20 years, that is a camera that will take a transparency that is 6cm in height and 17cm in width. It is the stock agency choice for panoramic work and is used a lot in advertising. I have just sold my 617 and doubt very much that I will own another for-work camera; I have seen, loaned and played with the future for commercial work at the least.
The revolution that occured in 35mm cameras has now progressed to medium format and we now have medium format digital (MFD) sensors that currently are up to about 60MP packed into a 6x4.5 MF camera compliant fitting.
Unlike 35mm, the sensor backs for these cameras (like their film backs) are detachable therefore one back/sensor can be used on multiple cameras; this makes sense given that the MFD sensor can cost anywhere between £8K and £20K. These sensors will always hold a greater amount of pixels than 35mm and as such offer much greater resolution given an equaly size of subject in the viewfinder. You have recently seen the detail that Andy_A produced out of a 30M Phase One back on an insect, imagine that at 60M.
Parrallel to the development of MFD backs the camera manufactures have been designing cameras based around these backs, and nowadays they are availible in a mini-view camera (which allows all swings tilts and shifts - see the new Linhof Techo and Silvestri Flexicam), straight SLR designs ( Mamiya AFD III and Hassey H series) and, of most interest to me, rugged rear shift cameras (like the Cambo WRS-1000 and Horseman SWD 2 Pro). All of these cameras can be twinned with the new digital large format lenses from the likes of Schneider and Rodenstock which can out resolve the sensor.
I'm interested in the rear shifting backs because they allow the ultimate in stitching images. In a rear shift camera the lens ( therefore image circle) stays stationary and you move the back of the camers (ergo sensor module) around the image circle of the stationary lense. Given that you can do this (i.e. the lens stays still) there is NO perspective shift in each image and stitching is easy, even when extreme wide angle lenases are used providing they have a large enough image circle. Of course there are problems, the major one ( easily corrected by an expodisc) is the closer the shifted sensor gets to the edge of the image circle the greater the colour cast - but it really is easy to correct for. This colour cast is uncorrected in the above image and is easily seen as a blue cast on the corner rock.
Now, why do this. Well the above image is 4 images taken on a rear shift MFD camera and it is the equivelent of a 127 megapixel camera. Its dimensions are about 12500*10500pixels hence, without any interpolation, it can be printed at gallery quality 300dpi at about 40" x 32" ... Large format film and film pano-cameras please take note as you have competition that can deliver a similar resolution with all the advantages of digital and at a clearer quality.
This post is simply to show that the digital revolution marchs on and, albeit pricy, for landscape ( and, as Andy has shown macro) photographers, is something worth keeping an eye on hoping that the price drops - as it will do.
A big thanks to Kevin, Brian and Jim for providing the Camera and Phase One P45+ back.
T
Posted by Barrie Harwood on September 22, 2008 at 3:33 PM
Interesting stuff Tom but you did say yourself that we must not make posts about equipment
Has this rule now changed as there are lots of interesting developments out there I'm sure people would love to chat about
Absolutely, as you know we have been using MF backs for some time now, the shift back bodies are super.... next year there will be a good chance to see what these backs can do (as long as the Darwin centre II opens on time ), can't say too much but think big!!!
"Rule 1. is there to stop the proliferation of all rumours/most OT/vapourware/political/sporting etc. topics e.g. rumoured products even if they have an application to nature photography, including cameras. One reason for this rule is to negate any potential litigation for libel - need I say more. What is allowed is the heads up about a openly released product for which manufacturers released data is available where that product is intended for nature photography specifically or, additionally, will be of a wide interest to the nature photography market - but I reiterate only after the product has been made public by the manufacturer and even then, only by a person who will receive no remittance for doing so and is unconnected to the manufacturing company. "
Emphasis just added...
or is it elsewhere?
Posted by Barrie Harwood on September 22, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Hi Tom
You took down a post a few days ago someone had put up on here about a new camera being released and you said we mustn't do it
I personally have no problem with it as it's all relevant to NH photography but rules are rules
Posted by David Clapp on September 22, 2008 at 4:12 PM
A great read Tom, Tristan and I were discussing all the options of late, what a killer billboard machine this would be. Is it very heavy? I cant imagine myself carting anything more around with me these days. The only issue I can see with comparison to LF film is the way high contrast cuts off around leaves etc, the transitions are so much smoother on film.
Like you say its all certainly marching onwards...
Barry, the above quote is from that post... it was by Nick, the only post I have taken down in the last weeks was about Canon Advertising/marketing methods. -
If its not a rumour, or slander, and is NH related equipment it should be OK.
David the weights ... back - approx 1kg lens = approx 400g and back MFD back about 1 kg.
Very interesting, thanks. If only this type of kit was affordable ... The ability to use LF lenses for digital would be fantastic. I struggle to find anything at the wide end and that is good enough for a 5D - never mind a 5D mkii.
Dave refers to a recent test I did comparing the 5D with 24 TSE and my 65mm LF lens. Films handles highlights completely differently to digital. Digital just cuts off where as films shoulder gives a very pleasing effect (at least to my eye).
Now that Zeiss are making lenses in an EF mount hopefully it will not be long before we get the 35 or 21mm Z lenses.
Agree about the affect digital has on edges, as well as the bit of chroma it throws in. It's why digital is seen as sharper defined but that isn't always a good thing.
You want to see the edges on the Schneider 24mm digitar on a P45+ sensor ... very very good... pity it has no great image circle. I am also awaiting some news from Rodenstock about some new LF digital H lenses.
Posted by John Robinson on September 22, 2008 at 7:28 PM
Crikey Tom !
I thought photography was fun !
Cheers
JohnR
Posted by Mike Smith on September 23, 2008 at 2:04 AM
and if you wander through the 2008 Photokina reviews, Leica have just raised the bar with a FF+50% sized sensor (35.5 MP) in a DSLR sized body plus a new range of lenses to match.
Landscapers never had it so good, .......or so expensive
I really do enjoy seeing what kit is capable of therefore discovering where I will get the best from it
I know one thing - all manufactures/advertisers will tell you no ill of their products and a wee bit of independant verification of a few claims can save you a lot of money, or subsequent dissappointment.
Discussion
13 repliesIt is posted to show current progress in digital photography and cameras.
Those that know me will be aware that I have owned a 617 camera for about 20 years, that is a camera that will take a transparency that is 6cm in height and 17cm in width. It is the stock agency choice for panoramic work and is used a lot in advertising. I have just sold my 617 and doubt very much that I will own another for-work camera; I have seen, loaned and played with the future for commercial work at the least.
The revolution that occured in 35mm cameras has now progressed to medium format and we now have medium format digital (MFD) sensors that currently are up to about 60MP packed into a 6x4.5 MF camera compliant fitting.
Unlike 35mm, the sensor backs for these cameras (like their film backs) are detachable therefore one back/sensor can be used on multiple cameras; this makes sense given that the MFD sensor can cost anywhere between £8K and £20K. These sensors will always hold a greater amount of pixels than 35mm and as such offer much greater resolution given an equaly size of subject in the viewfinder. You have recently seen the detail that Andy_A produced out of a 30M Phase One back on an insect, imagine that at 60M.
Parrallel to the development of MFD backs the camera manufactures have been designing cameras based around these backs, and nowadays they are availible in a mini-view camera (which allows all swings tilts and shifts - see the new Linhof Techo and Silvestri Flexicam), straight SLR designs ( Mamiya AFD III and Hassey H series) and, of most interest to me, rugged rear shift cameras (like the Cambo WRS-1000 and Horseman SWD 2 Pro). All of these cameras can be twinned with the new digital large format lenses from the likes of Schneider and Rodenstock which can out resolve the sensor.
I'm interested in the rear shifting backs because they allow the ultimate in stitching images. In a rear shift camera the lens ( therefore image circle) stays stationary and you move the back of the camers (ergo sensor module) around the image circle of the stationary lense. Given that you can do this (i.e. the lens stays still) there is NO perspective shift in each image and stitching is easy, even when extreme wide angle lenases are used providing they have a large enough image circle. Of course there are problems, the major one ( easily corrected by an expodisc) is the closer the shifted sensor gets to the edge of the image circle the greater the colour cast - but it really is easy to correct for. This colour cast is uncorrected in the above image and is easily seen as a blue cast on the corner rock.
Now, why do this. Well the above image is 4 images taken on a rear shift MFD camera and it is the equivelent of a 127 megapixel camera. Its dimensions are about 12500*10500pixels hence, without any interpolation, it can be printed at gallery quality 300dpi at about 40" x 32" ... Large format film and film pano-cameras please take note as you have competition that can deliver a similar resolution with all the advantages of digital and at a clearer quality.
This post is simply to show that the digital revolution marchs on and, albeit pricy, for landscape ( and, as Andy has shown macro) photographers, is something worth keeping an eye on hoping that the price drops - as it will do.
A big thanks to Kevin, Brian and Jim for providing the Camera and Phase One P45+ back.
T
Has this rule now changed as there are lots of interesting developments out there I'm sure people would love to chat about
Absolutely, as you know we have been using MF backs for some time now, the shift back bodies are super.... next year there will be a good chance to see what these backs can do (as long as the Darwin centre II opens on time
All the best & speak soon
Phil
I don't think I did...
"Rule 1. is there to stop the proliferation of all rumours/most OT/vapourware/political/sporting etc. topics e.g. rumoured products even if they have an application to nature photography, including cameras. One reason for this rule is to negate any potential litigation for libel - need I say more. What is allowed is the heads up about a openly released product for which manufacturers released data is available where that product is intended for nature photography specifically or, additionally, will be of a wide interest to the nature photography market - but I reiterate only after the product has been made public by the manufacturer and even then, only by a person who will receive no remittance for doing so and is unconnected to the manufacturing company. "
Emphasis just added...
or is it elsewhere?
You took down a post a few days ago someone had put up on here about a new camera being released and you said we mustn't do it
I personally have no problem with it as it's all relevant to NH photography but rules are rules
Like you say its all certainly marching onwards...
If its not a rumour, or slander, and is NH related equipment it should be OK.
David the weights ... back - approx 1kg lens = approx 400g and back MFD back about 1 kg.
T
Dave refers to a recent test I did comparing the 5D with 24 TSE and my 65mm LF lens. Films handles highlights completely differently to digital. Digital just cuts off where as films shoulder gives a very pleasing effect (at least to my eye).
Tristan
Now that Zeiss are making lenses in an EF mount hopefully it will not be long before we get the 35 or 21mm Z lenses.
Agree about the affect digital has on edges, as well as the bit of chroma it throws in. It's why digital is seen as sharper defined but that isn't always a good thing.
You want to see the edges on the Schneider 24mm digitar on a P45+ sensor ... very very good... pity it has no great image circle. I am also awaiting some news from Rodenstock about some new LF digital H lenses.
I thought photography was fun !
Cheers
JohnR
Landscapers never had it so good, .......or so expensive
I really do enjoy seeing what kit is capable of therefore discovering where I will get the best from it
I know one thing - all manufactures/advertisers will tell you no ill of their products and a wee bit of independant verification of a few claims can save you a lot of money, or subsequent dissappointment.
T