In a conversation this morning with RSPB Snettisham I was told that the 2 man photographic hide is to be close and will possibly/probably be dismantled. This decision was taken some time back after a piece of research into the effect photographers in the hide where having on the birds and evidence that suggests some photographers have caused disturbance of the birds.
You cannot blame the RSPB for this decision for their remit is the welfare of the birds and not the pleasure of photographers.
To quote a well know phase which I had hope was fully understood (but obviously not) and it's a hard and fast rule, whose spirit must be observed at all times -
"The welfare of the subject is more important than the photograph.”
I think we all need to take stock of our ethics and ego before we lose other access - Donna Nook?
The RPS Nature groups code of practice can be found here
Posted by szekiat chan on October 8, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Its a real pity about that. I was using the hide recently and didn't personally feel that we were intruding on the personal space of the birds as they were well comfortable even as we were snapping away. Ultimately, any hide/building will cause a disturbance its how the birds react to it that is the main factor IMHO. Ultimately, u can't stop human influence unless u shut the area off completely, and the birds in question are not a protected species (to my knowledge). While not disputing the decision of the RSPB (ultimately its their reserve), i'd take any reasoning with a pinch of salt unless i can see the research with my own eyes. too many things these days are being done after "significant research"
Are we talking about the same hide, it's not one of the 3 main big hides that are about 30 meters from the roost and hold about 15 people but the smaller 2 man photographic hide that is 5 metres from the waterline about 0.5 metres above the water?
T
Posted by Mike Smith on October 8, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Its not the hides, its the occupants and their approach to photography. Hides used properly should cause no stress or disturbance at all.
Modern DSLRs are significantly louder than the film cameras in circulation when the hides were first built and sited, you cannot compare the sound of a DSLR firing at 10FPS to a single shot SLR of 15 years ago.
Posted by szekiat chan on October 8, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Yes tom, the one right by the water line. Mike, modern DSLRs are actually significantly quieter than an ancient F3 with MD4 attached. I have both and trust me when i say the F3 is like a monster truck compared to my 40D. And it does less fps still. Not having film winding has helped a lot.
Is this an issue of photographer behaviour do you think, or is the hide simply too close to the roost? I haven't seen it.
Cheers
Terry
Posted by szekiat chan on October 8, 2008 at 1:34 PM
its a huge pond with lots of space for everyone to roost. In fact, the only thing that was spooking the birds were the peregrine flypass. Perhaps we should curb the peregrines instead... oh wait, can't do that can we?
Yes we do spook the birds when we approach/leave the hide but we do it early/late enough to cause minimal disturbance. If anything, i think most people that know about/rent the hide are more professional than the avid birdwatcher yakking away in the main hides. So loudly in fact i can hear them from the waterline hide. Now how about we ban them as well?
Posted by Kim Connolly on October 8, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Quite recently I was birding, rather than using my camera -and was looking through my scope when a photographer sat next to me with an extremely large lens and positioned straight across the end of my scope. I could see precisely nothing - and I am afraid I was too wimpy to protest! Having experienced this - and not for the first time - it is not surprising that this action has been taken. It is very sad - there should be room for both - but too often some photographers do seem to lack general good hide manners.
Posted by Mike Smith on October 9, 2008 at 2:16 AM
Szekiat
Clearly you have not used Pentax or Olympus slrs from the 1970s or 1980s (and I am excluding the motor winders because no sane nature photographer would use an auto winder in those days precisely because of the noise issues) or the Canon EOS5, I think you will also be gobsmacked at the difference in operational noise between an Olympus E-1 DSLR and a Canon 1D of same vintage, believe me the Canon 1DII+ series or Nikon professional bodies running at full chat are very very noisy
Posted by Dave Sewell on October 9, 2008 at 3:22 PM
I have to agree with Mike. I was almost cringing with embarrassment while using my 1D2N on Mull - it's like a ruddy machine gun going off. in fact it's so bad I'm seriously considering sacking the thing! (I appreciate this has nothing to do with the topic - I just wanted to get it off my chest!!!)
Dave
Posted by szekiat chan on October 9, 2008 at 7:17 PM
your choosing to use the 1d2 in full auto mode as oppose to single frame/silent mode has nothing to do with the capabilities of the camera but in fact speaks more of your understanding of your equipment.
The RSPB has taken a decision to remove the photographic hide at Snettisham reserve at the end of the 2008 season. For the last two years monitoring has been undertaken to look at whether disturbance has occurred to waders roosting close to the hide. Not all photographers cause a problem, but there is a significant number who have caused varying levels of disturbance. Unfortunately, we feel that we have therefore to take the action of removing the hide. The two public hides overlooking the roosting areas at the southern end of the lagoons still offer excellent photographic opportunities.
Jim Scott (Snettisham Site Manager)
"
so it is a combination of both. You have to be experienced to be that close even in a hide.
Szekiat, (as an aside)
I think you will find noise very munch a secondary issue with most birds ( I have a lot of references that would support this) - otherwise the main hides would be a consistant annoyance - but more to do with movement associated with people erratically moving their lenses and playing with the scrim curtain.
It does not really matter it's gone which is a pity as it has Snettisham has given me some stunning images over the past 10 years.
Posted by szekiat chan on October 10, 2008 at 8:22 PM
Tom_w, ultimately i agree with u in that it doesn't matter what we say in that it is gone now. I have only had the fortune of visiting Snettisham once and hence cannot really comment on that particular site beyond that the birds were extremely comfortable with my presence in terms of noise and movement but perhaps others were not as careful. I agree that noise is a secondary issue with most birds. As you will recall, i never mentioned noise till mike brought it up at which point i felt it necessary to point out that there were other sources of noise. I just felt that the birds had adapted to the hide and the our presence over time and no longer associate it with a threat compared to other things. I think this will ultimately prove to be snettisham's loss as a nature attraction but i guess this remains to be seen.
Discussion
12 repliesYou cannot blame the RSPB for this decision for their remit is the welfare of the birds and not the pleasure of photographers.
To quote a well know phase which I had hope was fully understood (but obviously not) and it's a hard and fast rule, whose spirit must be observed at all times -
"The welfare of the subject is more important than the photograph.”
I think we all need to take stock of our ethics and ego before we lose other access - Donna Nook?
The RPS Nature groups code of practice can be found here
Are we talking about the same hide, it's not one of the 3 main big hides that are about 30 meters from the roost and hold about 15 people but the smaller 2 man photographic hide that is 5 metres from the waterline about 0.5 metres above the water?
T
Modern DSLRs are significantly louder than the film cameras in circulation when the hides were first built and sited, you cannot compare the sound of a DSLR firing at 10FPS to a single shot SLR of 15 years ago.
Is this an issue of photographer behaviour do you think, or is the hide simply too close to the roost? I haven't seen it.
Cheers
Terry
Yes we do spook the birds when we approach/leave the hide but we do it early/late enough to cause minimal disturbance. If anything, i think most people that know about/rent the hide are more professional than the avid birdwatcher yakking away in the main hides. So loudly in fact i can hear them from the waterline hide. Now how about we ban them as well?
Clearly you have not used Pentax or Olympus slrs from the 1970s or 1980s (and I am excluding the motor winders because no sane nature photographer would use an auto winder in those days precisely because of the noise issues) or the Canon EOS5, I think you will also be gobsmacked at the difference in operational noise between an Olympus E-1 DSLR and a Canon 1D of same vintage, believe me the Canon 1DII+ series or Nikon professional bodies running at full chat are very very noisy
Dave
Here is your answer...
"Hi Tom
Re our discussion
The RSPB has taken a decision to remove the photographic hide at Snettisham reserve at the end of the 2008 season. For the last two years monitoring has been undertaken to look at whether disturbance has occurred to waders roosting close to the hide. Not all photographers cause a problem, but there is a significant number who have caused varying levels of disturbance. Unfortunately, we feel that we have therefore to take the action of removing the hide. The two public hides overlooking the roosting areas at the southern end of the lagoons still offer excellent photographic opportunities.
Jim Scott (Snettisham Site Manager)
"
so it is a combination of both. You have to be experienced to be that close even in a hide.
Szekiat, (as an aside)
I think you will find noise very munch a secondary issue with most birds ( I have a lot of references that would support this) - otherwise the main hides would be a consistant annoyance - but more to do with movement associated with people erratically moving their lenses and playing with the scrim curtain.
It does not really matter