Posted by beth summer on October 15, 2008 at 5:16 PM
I have been using PSE 2 for quite a few years and I'm interested in upgrading...finally! I've been researching Lightroom but I'm a little confused. Do I have to have PS CS2 or more in order to use Lightroom? Or can I purchase Lightroom without having any PS? Does Lightroom have all the filters, effects etc. that PS CS2/3/4 has or do I need plug ins? I'm very naive about most software but having seen some other photographers at a recent workshop do work with Lightroom, I'm realizing that I need to make the next step with my photography. Thanks all for answering my "naive" questions
Posted by David Bostedo on October 15, 2008 at 5:49 PM
Lightroom is :
-- a stand alone program
-- an image/file manager (DAM application, if you know that term)
-- a raw developer - using ACR (Adobe Camera RAW) the same program found in Photoshop
all packaged in a very nice interface creating a nice workflow.
Lightroom is not/does not :
-- a full featured photo editor/graphic design program
-- have layers, standard masks, adjustment layers, usual filters, etc.
I hope that helps - some people find that Lightroom is enough, especially since it does have some new gradient masking and targeted (spot) editing capability. But many people find that they still need PS in some form as well. Some people are OK with PS by itself, since it also includes ACR and Bridge (which is a file/image manager, although not on a level with Lightroom).
In any case, you can download trial versions of both Lightroom and PS....so it is worth trying them both out and comparing yourself!
Posted by John Mumaw on October 15, 2008 at 7:34 PM
An excellent summary above.
Seems to me that if you have PS CS 3/4, then you don't really 'need' Lightroom.
If you have Lightroom, then an updated version of PS Elements would complement it nicely.
Myself, I stick with PS because of the layer masking features, the ability to use 'actions' to automate much work (and so I can use Tony Kuyper's brilliant editing actions), and the ability to use plug-ins for advanced sharpening and noise reduction.
I'm not a professional with thousands of images to catalog, so it's quite easy for me to pass on Lightroom.
Posted by David Bostedo on October 15, 2008 at 8:54 PM
If you have Lightroom, then an updated version of PS Elements would complement it nicely.
That's very true - and a route I've thought of going myself, with one caveat. Many features of PS Elements (at least up to version 5) didn't support 16-bit images. I know that started to change with Elements 6. Anyone know how much 16-bit support is in Elements 7?
The Adobe web page tends to focus it's Elements information on things your average snapshooter would want - like "whiten teeth and create bluer skies in one click". I don't much care about that - but I would like to know about the curves dialog, how masks are handled (if at all), and 16-bit support.
Posted by John Mumaw on October 15, 2008 at 11:42 PM
Elements 7 is still only semi-16 bit aware, and that may never change.
However, most of the more drastic changes that would warrant 16 bit depth can be achieved in Lightroom. Aside from dramatic editing changes, I can't see any good reason to use large and unwieldy 16 bit image files. More and more studies are determining that, outside of extreme editing situations, 8 bit image files are good enough for almost all uses.
Richard Lynch will undoubtedly produce more Elements add ons for v.7 as he has for several years now via his 'Hidden Powers of PS Elements' site.
Posted by beth summer on October 16, 2008 at 9:35 AM
Thanks for the input, David and John. I'm at a crossroads and the info you both gave me really helped. I'm so behind in the area of software but I also realize that I don't have to have all of it. So the above provided info was just what I needed to know. Thanks.
Posted by John Mumaw on October 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM
Beth,
If you ever decide to migrate from Elements to the full version of PS, Adobe has a long running discount for Elements users to upgrade for $299 using this link.
Posted by beth summer on October 16, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Thanks, John.
Posted by Kent Johnson on October 16, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Thanks Beth for asking your "silly" question. And thanks to all who answered.
I have an old copy of PS Elements that I got with a printer that died a several years ago. It doesn't say what version it is, the newest copywrite date is 2001. The cost of PS has always stopped me from thinking of upgrading. The above information leads me to think I should go the Elements 7 and Lightroom route.
Posted by David Bostedo on October 16, 2008 at 10:35 PM
...Adobe has a long running discount for Elements users to upgrade for $299 using this link.
John - that's quite a link you posted about this. Going through the main Adobe page and using the upgrade tool (Found here) it says the upgrade costs $599 from Elements 4 to CS4!! It also says $599 trying to just order the upgrade from the main page. The link you provided definitely says upgrade from Elements 4,5,6, or 7.
So I went through the link you provided and got right to the point of confirming my order for $299 - and would save me $300!!!! I don't get it, but I'm not going to look a gift-link in the mouth.
Actually I was considering keeping my version of Elements and getting Lightroom, even though I wanted CS4. Well now I've just started to download CS4 for that price. I almost can't believe it. I'll have to check my credit card and see what they actually charge. Plus I need to activate it, so I'm hoping it doesn't give me a problem. I'll update this when I get it actually running.
Posted by John Mumaw on October 16, 2008 at 11:18 PM
Excellent news, David!
I'd never seen the more expensive upgrade path before, but I've known a few others who have done taken the 'low road' and it really works. Look forward to hearing your future comments.
Posted by David Bostedo on October 17, 2008 at 12:45 AM
Update - I'm up and running with CS4 for $299 (if they actually charge me what my receipt shows)!! Now to really learn how to use it...although I think the learning curve doesn't seem so bad after learning Elements so well...
What I'm now wondering is if someone could buy Elements 7 for $100, then immediately upgrade to CS4 for $299 for a total of $399. The website list price for CS4 stand alone (non-upgrade) is $699.
Posted by John Mumaw on October 17, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Actually, any version of Elements back to v.4 will do.
Many folks use the version of Elements that comes bundled with their hardware (scanners, etc.), and that's about the best deal of all.
Discussion
12 replies-- a stand alone program
-- an image/file manager (DAM application, if you know that term)
-- a raw developer - using ACR (Adobe Camera RAW) the same program found in Photoshop
all packaged in a very nice interface creating a nice workflow.
Lightroom is not/does not :
-- a full featured photo editor/graphic design program
-- have layers, standard masks, adjustment layers, usual filters, etc.
I hope that helps - some people find that Lightroom is enough, especially since it does have some new gradient masking and targeted (spot) editing capability. But many people find that they still need PS in some form as well. Some people are OK with PS by itself, since it also includes ACR and Bridge (which is a file/image manager, although not on a level with Lightroom).
In any case, you can download trial versions of both Lightroom and PS....so it is worth trying them both out and comparing yourself!
Seems to me that if you have PS CS 3/4, then you don't really 'need' Lightroom.
If you have Lightroom, then an updated version of PS Elements would complement it nicely.
Myself, I stick with PS because of the layer masking features, the ability to use 'actions' to automate much work (and so I can use Tony Kuyper's brilliant editing actions), and the ability to use plug-ins for advanced sharpening and noise reduction.
I'm not a professional with thousands of images to catalog, so it's quite easy for me to pass on Lightroom.
That's very true - and a route I've thought of going myself, with one caveat. Many features of PS Elements (at least up to version 5) didn't support 16-bit images. I know that started to change with Elements 6. Anyone know how much 16-bit support is in Elements 7?
The Adobe web page tends to focus it's Elements information on things your average snapshooter would want - like "whiten teeth and create bluer skies in one click". I don't much care about that - but I would like to know about the curves dialog, how masks are handled (if at all), and 16-bit support.
However, most of the more drastic changes that would warrant 16 bit depth can be achieved in Lightroom. Aside from dramatic editing changes, I can't see any good reason to use large and unwieldy 16 bit image files. More and more studies are determining that, outside of extreme editing situations, 8 bit image files are good enough for almost all uses.
Richard Lynch will undoubtedly produce more Elements add ons for v.7 as he has for several years now via his 'Hidden Powers of PS Elements' site.
If you ever decide to migrate from Elements to the full version of PS, Adobe has a long running discount for Elements users to upgrade for $299 using this link.
I have an old copy of PS Elements that I got with a printer that died a several years ago. It doesn't say what version it is, the newest copywrite date is 2001. The cost of PS has always stopped me from thinking of upgrading. The above information leads me to think I should go the Elements 7 and Lightroom route.
John - that's quite a link you posted about this. Going through the main Adobe page and using the upgrade tool (Found here) it says the upgrade costs $599 from Elements 4 to CS4!! It also says $599 trying to just order the upgrade from the main page. The link you provided definitely says upgrade from Elements 4,5,6, or 7.
So I went through the link you provided and got right to the point of confirming my order for $299 - and would save me $300!!!! I don't get it, but I'm not going to look a gift-link in the mouth.
Actually I was considering keeping my version of Elements and getting Lightroom, even though I wanted CS4. Well now I've just started to download CS4 for that price. I almost can't believe it. I'll have to check my credit card and see what they actually charge. Plus I need to activate it, so I'm hoping it doesn't give me a problem. I'll update this when I get it actually running.
I'd never seen the more expensive upgrade path before, but I've known a few others who have done taken the 'low road' and it really works. Look forward to hearing your future comments.
What I'm now wondering is if someone could buy Elements 7 for $100, then immediately upgrade to CS4 for $299 for a total of $399. The website list price for CS4 stand alone (non-upgrade) is $699.
Many folks use the version of Elements that comes bundled with their hardware (scanners, etc.), and that's about the best deal of all.