Posted by John Robinson on October 17, 2008 at 8:10 PM
Blackbird
Another pool shot from today . Usual set up
Bit of a pain exposing these right. Black cat in a toilet is the expession as I recall !
D200
Sigma 300mm
ISO 800 60th @f 5.6
JR
For me, your pools are basically a studio set, mine are, and can/should be treated as such.
Personally, I would have removed the fern and the twigs, and added subtle environmental props as required.
By the way, the Blackbird itself, is truly excellent.
Posted by John Robinson on October 18, 2008 at 3:45 PM
Thanks all.
Ray - no props I'm affraid- natural spring fed pool whch has been there 40 years at least.
If that's a studio set I,ve got the wrong dictionary !
As far as the twigs go , if I take them out the birds will fall in the water.
Cheers
JR
Posted by Ian Mason on October 18, 2008 at 6:40 PM
He looks as if he is having a great time - so relaxed. Very nice.
It might be a natural pool, and I have worked these as well, but they can be considered to be a studio setup.
Earth could be added to create shallows, the twigs can be removed and your own substituted. The fern could be removed, and smaller leaves added and possibly sunken. At one natural stream I once worked, I once replanted a 100mm diameter Alder tree out of the “killing zone”, and before you ask, it is still growing to this day. Now that was one large “studio”.
A studio doesn’t have to be four walls and a roof.
To my mind, knowing exactly where you are working, together with the option to able to set the scene so to speak, is in my book, a studio setup, be it outside.
Posted by John Robinson on October 19, 2008 at 6:38 AM
Thanks Ray
Are you telling me you don't get twigs and floating leaves in a natural pool. ?
There certainly is in mine. And if you "add earth " as you say then you are making it a set up - which seems a very contradictory thing to say
Post some of your pool stuff and I' ll be able to see where I am going wrong.
JR
Posted by David Kjaer on October 19, 2008 at 6:51 AM
Nice capture John a good combination of sharpness and blur!
David
Posted by eric weight on October 19, 2008 at 1:36 PM
I was photographing ducks (badly!) yesterday in my studio. Well it was a lake actually, but I knew they would be there and I waited for them. I moved three islands and a hundred foot poplar to get it just right and still cocked it up - hey ho. So difficult to get it right these days isn't it?
Great shot John, as usual - the blur and sharpness are just right IMO. Eric
Of course I’m not saying that nothing ever drops into a pool, the same way that leaves don’t fall on fungi. But and here is the point. When the photographer takes that picture of the fungi, he will invariably remove that leaf. So by the same token, and debris which falls into my pool(s) is removed if for whatever reason I think it will be detrimental, either physically, or by other means during my shoot.
By adding earth, I was thinking about creating shallows for the subject, where I want them to be with regard to the camera.
A pool is much the same as a feeding station, just different “bait”. Both are “wait and see” situations, but the feeding station is aimed at a particular range of species, be ti seed or insect eaters. A pool is attractive to every living thing, as everything needs to either drink or maintain its fur or feathers.
John, you are not wrong, and I have never said or thought so, but your techniques are different to mine, and I thought we could have explored them constructively. From what has been said in this thread, and others, I’m really starting to think that I’m flogging a dead horse here.
John, when you take a shot it is very apparent that it was taken in a European deciduous woodland. By using my techniques, and ignoring subject matter, invariably the images could have been taken anywhere. Thus I think it is more commercial as it gives the publisher more options, but saying that, I obviously do take shots where the general location is recognisable, due to the habitat/subject shown in the image.
Eric
I’m really interested in your studio, if you have any further details/images I would be most interested in seeing them, after all this is how we all learn.
By the way. When sarcasm comes in, invariable constructive discussion, amongst other things, evaporates.
The question to have asked was, why specifically did I replant the tree.
Posted by John Robinson on October 20, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Ray
You are not flogging a dead horse Your critisism is not really at my pictures,but seems to revolve around how I take them, which is not what I thought this forum was about. The subjects certainly are not harmed in any way.
Your system is different to mine you say and so thats fine by me- no one is argueing about it as far as I know.!
I just don't understand the points you are trying to make
For example - You say
(Quote) By adding earth, I was thinking about creating shallows for the subject, where I want them to be with regard to the camera.(/Quote)
Now that really is verging on a "studio setup" surely ! I don't do anything like that because my pool is natural, and has shallows and deeps anyway so there is no need. I don't keep getting in and out of the hide to remove leaves that have fallen in because that is not the way to go on if you want birds feel secure at using a site.
By your way of thinking, it follows that photographing deer in a park is "studio " work.
I notice you mention the "commercial" aspects of your work. That side of it doesn't really interest me any more.
Maybe it is- but so what ? That pool was there a long time before me - I just used an opportunity.
After 5 freezing winter hours in the pool hide then it must be the coldest studio I've ever come across !!.
Cheers
John
Posted by Magnus Hird on October 20, 2008 at 5:01 PM
John, think this shot just shows how even the species we think of as everyday and sometimes uninteresting can be made attractive and interesting again, a lovely moment caught.
In the passive observer of a scene versus the active intervener in constructing a scene debate I think, as you have said, its horses for courses and each to their own.
You start by saying ”but seems to revolve around how I take them, which is not what I thought this forum was about”. There are two important points here. How you take them, is important, not to me, I know how you do it, I’ve done it myself, but too many who visit this forum, they don’t know. Many N.H. photographers start at their local park, then progress to the local reserve, but after that what ?? Well I would suggest that a fair percentage visit forums like this, in order to improve/learn about N.H. photography. So I would tend to disagree with your statement as to what this and other forums are about. It isn’t about just looking at images, its also to many, how can they take similar images themselves. In other words learn their craft.
You said and I quote: ”By your way of thinking, it follows that photographing deer in a park is "studio " work.” . If I put my mind to it then yes, I could make a case for calling a deer park a “studio”, it all depends on what criteria you apply.
John, I realised a long time ago, that you let nature “sculpt” your pool. But nature is messy, and on occasions I don’t see anything wrong in modelling/enhancing the scene, if the original habitat isn’t adversely affected, and adding soil to the bottom of a pool would definitely fall into this category. After all, all you are doing is adding “silt” in a position which suites both you and the birds.
I have never advocated getting in and out of a hide just to remove some bit of “flotsam” from the “killing zone”, I do that either automatically or from the hide. But saying that, a pool hide is a wait and see situation, so you are not usually adversely disturbing anything, like when you are near a nest, so the amount of disturbance is in my experience negligible. Frequently I have entered my hide, with all the inherent banging about that accompanies anyone settling down, only to look at the “kill zone” and see subjects galore.
You mention the cold, well that’s down to the hides design and your preparation. Raise your feet off the ground on a plinth, wear a pair of tights and a hat, to name just a few things you can do to combat the cold, they work for me.
Commercial considerations are always to be considered, if not for yourself then others. Royalty cheques are always welcome, particularly if they arrive at the same time as a utility bill.
A wait and see hide, be it at water or feeders, is in my opinion the least likely method I can think off to create disturbance, that a photographer can use in the pursuance of his craft.
Keep enjoying what you are doing, others are learning from you, whether you realise it or not.
Discussion
14 repliesAnother pool shot from today . Usual set up
Bit of a pain exposing these right. Black cat in a toilet is the expession as I recall !
D200
Sigma 300mm
ISO 800 60th @f 5.6
JR
greet super smashin. lovely movement and sharpness in the right place, shame about twig mid lower right
Really nice .
Fran
For me, your pools are basically a studio set, mine are, and can/should be treated as such.
Personally, I would have removed the fern and the twigs, and added subtle environmental props as required.
By the way, the Blackbird itself, is truly excellent.
Ray - no props I'm affraid- natural spring fed pool whch has been there 40 years at least.
If that's a studio set I,ve got the wrong dictionary !
As far as the twigs go , if I take them out the birds will fall in the water.
Cheers
JR
It might be a natural pool, and I have worked these as well, but they can be considered to be a studio setup.
Earth could be added to create shallows, the twigs can be removed and your own substituted. The fern could be removed, and smaller leaves added and possibly sunken. At one natural stream I once worked, I once replanted a 100mm diameter Alder tree out of the “killing zone”, and before you ask, it is still growing to this day. Now that was one large “studio”.
A studio doesn’t have to be four walls and a roof.
To my mind, knowing exactly where you are working, together with the option to able to set the scene so to speak, is in my book, a studio setup, be it outside.
Are you telling me you don't get twigs and floating leaves in a natural pool. ?
There certainly is in mine. And if you "add earth " as you say then you are making it a set up - which seems a very contradictory thing to say
Post some of your pool stuff and I' ll be able to see where I am going wrong.
JR
David
Great shot John, as usual - the blur and sharpness are just right IMO.
Of course I’m not saying that nothing ever drops into a pool, the same way that leaves don’t fall on fungi. But and here is the point. When the photographer takes that picture of the fungi, he will invariably remove that leaf. So by the same token, and debris which falls into my pool(s) is removed if for whatever reason I think it will be detrimental, either physically, or by other means during my shoot.
By adding earth, I was thinking about creating shallows for the subject, where I want them to be with regard to the camera.
A pool is much the same as a feeding station, just different “bait”. Both are “wait and see” situations, but the feeding station is aimed at a particular range of species, be ti seed or insect eaters. A pool is attractive to every living thing, as everything needs to either drink or maintain its fur or feathers.
John, you are not wrong, and I have never said or thought so, but your techniques are different to mine, and I thought we could have explored them constructively. From what has been said in this thread, and others, I’m really starting to think that I’m flogging a dead horse here.
John, when you take a shot it is very apparent that it was taken in a European deciduous woodland. By using my techniques, and ignoring subject matter, invariably the images could have been taken anywhere. Thus I think it is more commercial as it gives the publisher more options, but saying that, I obviously do take shots where the general location is recognisable, due to the habitat/subject shown in the image.
Eric
I’m really interested in your studio, if you have any further details/images I would be most interested in seeing them, after all this is how we all learn.
By the way. When sarcasm comes in, invariable constructive discussion, amongst other things, evaporates.
The question to have asked was, why specifically did I replant the tree.
You are not flogging a dead horse Your critisism is not really at my pictures,but seems to revolve around how I take them, which is not what I thought this forum was about. The subjects certainly are not harmed in any way.
Your system is different to mine you say and so thats fine by me- no one is argueing about it as far as I know.!
I just don't understand the points you are trying to make
For example - You say
(Quote) By adding earth, I was thinking about creating shallows for the subject, where I want them to be with regard to the camera.(/Quote)
Now that really is verging on a "studio setup" surely ! I don't do anything like that because my pool is natural, and has shallows and deeps anyway so there is no need. I don't keep getting in and out of the hide to remove leaves that have fallen in because that is not the way to go on if you want birds feel secure at using a site.
By your way of thinking, it follows that photographing deer in a park is "studio " work.
I notice you mention the "commercial" aspects of your work. That side of it doesn't really interest me any more.
Maybe it is- but so what ? That pool was there a long time before me - I just used an opportunity.
After 5 freezing winter hours in the pool hide then it must be the coldest studio I've ever come across !!.
Cheers
John
In the passive observer of a scene versus the active intervener in constructing a scene debate I think, as you have said, its horses for courses and each to their own.
You start by saying ”but seems to revolve around how I take them, which is not what I thought this forum was about”. There are two important points here. How you take them, is important, not to me, I know how you do it, I’ve done it myself, but too many who visit this forum, they don’t know. Many N.H. photographers start at their local park, then progress to the local reserve, but after that what ?? Well I would suggest that a fair percentage visit forums like this, in order to improve/learn about N.H. photography. So I would tend to disagree with your statement as to what this and other forums are about. It isn’t about just looking at images, its also to many, how can they take similar images themselves. In other words learn their craft.
You said and I quote: ”By your way of thinking, it follows that photographing deer in a park is "studio " work.” . If I put my mind to it then yes, I could make a case for calling a deer park a “studio”, it all depends on what criteria you apply.
John, I realised a long time ago, that you let nature “sculpt” your pool. But nature is messy, and on occasions I don’t see anything wrong in modelling/enhancing the scene, if the original habitat isn’t adversely affected, and adding soil to the bottom of a pool would definitely fall into this category. After all, all you are doing is adding “silt” in a position which suites both you and the birds.
I have never advocated getting in and out of a hide just to remove some bit of “flotsam” from the “killing zone”, I do that either automatically or from the hide. But saying that, a pool hide is a wait and see situation, so you are not usually adversely disturbing anything, like when you are near a nest, so the amount of disturbance is in my experience negligible. Frequently I have entered my hide, with all the inherent banging about that accompanies anyone settling down, only to look at the “kill zone” and see subjects galore.
You mention the cold, well that’s down to the hides design and your preparation. Raise your feet off the ground on a plinth, wear a pair of tights and a hat, to name just a few things you can do to combat the cold, they work for me.
Commercial considerations are always to be considered, if not for yourself then others. Royalty cheques are always welcome, particularly if they arrive at the same time as a utility bill.
A wait and see hide, be it at water or feeders, is in my opinion the least likely method I can think off to create disturbance, that a photographer can use in the pursuance of his craft.
Keep enjoying what you are doing, others are learning from you, whether you realise it or not.