Posted by William Vrolyk on October 26, 2008 at 10:59 AM
If (when) you feel discouraged what do you do to snap out of it? Discouragement can have many causes. Depression is one such culprit.
But sometimes I feel that I face something similar to "writers' block" and I find it difficult to find meaningful images. Other times response to my posts in the galleries are discouraging. I usually deal with that by reminding myself that low page views and comments is a critique in itself and it is up to me to find out why the shot is a miss.
Sheer determination and a desire to succeed is how I deal with facing discouragement. I focus on the positive. I remind myself that I have sold my work and even sold many large prints to a client who did not see the images beforehand. When I offered a selection from which the client could choose I was told to pick what I wanted. Showing my photos to staff at work and to family and friends always boosts encouragement.
How do you deal with discouragement? Have you ever faced it? If not how do you avoid it?
Your replies are important to me.
Thank you.
Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
Posted by Steve Foss on October 26, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Will, I bet we all face discouragement. It would be hard to picture a creative person who isn't plagued at least once in awhile by doubts about their own ability.
There are days I despair that I'll ever take a really inspiring photograph in my life, and other days when everything seems to click for me. In each case, it's my own mood and mindset that determines whether it's a "clicking" day or a "curmudgeon" day.
While I don't come right out and say it to people when I'm discouraged, I do tend to seek out situations (whether it's with my wife in person or with clients/friends via e-mail or in a couple online boards like this one) where I get positive feedback that helps swing my mood around.
And being in the wilds is always a tonic for me. That's especially important because there are days when I simply don't want to have to exert myself through communication with other people, and on those days a walk/sit in the woods (with the camera handy but photography not the goal at all) is just the right kind of restorative.
I also have a good friend who lives only 15 miles away, works here in Ely and is a photographer himself. We often go for rides through the forest roads and have long, rambling conversations about photography in general and the business of it (we're both actually making a business of photography). We are supportive of each other, and I always feel good after those rides. He does too. Sometimes we even take pictures on those jaunts.
It's probably no surprise to people who have been doing this a long time that sitting in one beautiful place within nature for hours or hanging out with people you like, and ignoring the camera sitting next to you, can lead to some of the best photography. Sometimes, to do you most inspired work you have to forget you have a camera along.
Posted by Kurt Budliger on October 26, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Boy I'd be surprised to hear from anyone who doesn't face discourgement from time to time.
For me, I get discourged a lot and for any number of reasons; no time to shoot due to family and business responsibilities, living in a part of the northeast that routinely has crappy light, seeing all the epic shots other people are getting while I'm stuck painting my house, being bored with the landscape in which I live, and the list goes on.
I try to overcome my discouragement or shooters block in a number of ways; show work to family and friends (as you describe), make a big print, give myself a theme or challenge to focus my shooting, plan a photo trip, simply get off my ass or out of bed and go for a walk theres usually something to shoot locally, and finally, get some exercise (can't overstate the importance of this). I often find that if I haven't been active or in a routine of exercising my mood can be quite sour and I easily get discouraged photographically. By simply going for a run, bike ride, walk, whatever, I feel better, think clearer and tend to be far more creative. Hope this helps and can't wait to hear what others do.
Posted by Mark Fellowes on October 26, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Hi there
I very recently went through a period like this and commented on it in my blog. I've copied it below (slight edits for space), but for me, I think that being dissatisifed is a core part of becoming a decent photographer - you can't improve unless you can see that there's a problem.
Mark
----
One of the things I've found about becoming more deeply interested in photography is that the satisfaction I get from my images has actually declined. This realisation came after spending somewhere in the region of six hours on Sunday evening trying to get what I thought should be a fairly simple image - a follow up to the last stacked image of an insect on sundew. The result was frustration, frustration, frustration! Don't misunderstand what I mean - I'm glued to my camera - just that as I've gained experience, my definition of what constitutes a good image has become a lot less forgiving than it used to be. The result - most shots don't make the grade any more.
This made me think about what I was trying to achieve, and what I had actually managed to do over the past few years of serious photography, leading to a deep insight (tongue deeply embedded in cheek here) into...
The developmental stages of a nature photographer...
It's all about memories (egg).
Interested in wildlife (birds, mammals), get given/buy a camera. Shoot everything for memories... Images developed (well... printed anyway) by Boots/Snappy Snaps/1-hour Photo/ whoever is nearest and cheapest. Doesn't worry if images show camera shake, over/under exposure or the subject is tiny - the record of that moment in time is what matters.
Knows: which button to press.
Happy with: most shots.
Main worry: lens caps.
It's all about technique (first instar).
Discover that photography gives you insights into wildlife that you hadn't considered, especially the small and commonplace. Become a better natural historian. Improve basic composition and technique. Quality improves hugely in a very short period of time, so record shots are now worth showing to people. Start buying specialised kit, but tries to save money by getting the cheaper stuff, especially with regard to tripods. Basic ability to edit using Photoshop, but with a tendency to over-sharpen and over-saturate.Very happy with general excellence of own images, which are obviously as good as anyone else's - unfortunately the ability to self-critique is poorly developed.
Knows: less than they think.
Happy with: many shots.
Main worry: image softness.
It's all about kit (second instar).
Your camera follows you everywhere, and you know it so well that you don't have to look to change the settings. Understand the theory of photography well; possesses a good understanding of Photoshop. Realise that the cheap kit is cheap for a reason; know that a Gitzo will make the difference - who in their right mind would buy a Vanguard?! Look at other people's images and see where they went wrong (and happy to share those insights with them; a bit more blinkered when it comes to their own images). Deliberately plan days just for image-making - location, location, location... (red deer, grey seals, red kites all ticked off - sorry UK bias here!).
Knows: the content of every camera review.
Happy with: a few shots, but then again they know that these are actually pretty good by any one's standards.
Main worry: filling the frame.
It's all about technique... ...again (third instar).
Slight development from the instar above, but now is a Photoshop master. More critical of technical qualities of own images. Able to spot a colour-cast at 100 paces. Can use the word bokeh in a sentance without feeling pretentious. Thinks seriously about joining an agency to sell some images.
Knows: how to produce a pretty decent print.
Happy with: fewer shots (meet above standards and also has to be of agency submission quality).
Main worry - noise at low ISOs.
It's all about me (pupa).
Settings on camera are now almost instinctive, and all relevant editing programs second nature - they are technically in control. Look back at own work, and realise that while the images are fine, they lack a certain something - they are producing cliches. Becoming their own worst critics, they spend a day just trying to get one acceptable image, and then failing, mainly because what they've produced is just the same as a million other images. Generally grumpy and dissatisfied with photographic life, especially when they see what some other people are capable of producing.
Knows: that there's more to nature photography than technique, but not sure what the more is yet.
Happy with: very few shots, or more often, no shots at all.
Main worry: perfection.
It's all about the vision (imago).
Managed to figure out their answers to life, the universe and image making. They have their own defined way of looking at the world - their pictures have a contact with the subject that's planned, rather than just being a lucky break. Often it's not the subject that matters, but the context it's in. Weather, environment, behaviour, interactions matter hugely. Considers sensor noise to be an over-rated problem.
Knows: enough.
Happy with: the shot.
Main worry: imitators.
I'm guessing that the last works that way - perhaps one day I'll feel as if I've got there! I suppose that the good thing about feeling unsatisfied is that it pushes you towards improvement.
--------------
Will, you wouldn't be human if you didn't have these ups and downs. Think how boring it would be to have great images all the time... sure would like to try it though! Seriously, we all go through low periods and I think the solution is just get out there and enjoy the companionship of good friends, the beauty of nature and hope for the possibility of a great shot.
Posted by Steve Sieren on October 26, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Great topic! It's hit me quite a few times.
Posted by Richard Wong on October 26, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Depression is usually what motivates me to go out to shoot photos. I can't speak for others but for me, I think I need a certain amount of discouragement in my life because it makes me angry to think someone might think I can't do something or if I think I can't do something. That is motivation for me to do as best as I possibly can. Growing up a minority in a hostile environment, it is something that I have lived with for much of my life and don't think I know of any other way. Things are better now (from an anger management perspective) but it is hard to escape your past.
Posted by Stan Rose on October 26, 2008 at 5:02 PM
I'm totally with Richard on this. I welcome discouraging events, it motivates me to work harder. If i get into a slump ill just switch geers and do something completely different. My bigger problem is getting a focus (too many ideas...too little time). I've seen some great stuff from you Will, i wouldnt worry too much about what you perceive as discouraging!
Posted by Tim Zandee on October 26, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Great topic. This is the first time I have visited this page. I sell my work for a living (main sellers are 1k-4k) I find that I only seem to get discouraged when I come to a show or shoot with too high of expectations. For me things go better when I am flexible and greatful. This year I have had shows that were so good in the past and let me down, while other shows turned out to be awesome a few weeks later when I wrote off a show as a "bad choice." I find that I get discouraged when I "play God" with my plans and expectations. Only He knows what is best for me and what I need.
When i get discouraged it is best to look back and realize that I sell hundreds of thousands of dollars of art work a year. People actually buy this stuff - at some shows it is easyto forget this and compliments don't do. It is very easy for me to be discouraged and to forget all the blessings I get from having such a great job.
Posted by Roger Rouch on October 26, 2008 at 10:39 PM
It's my best guess that discouragement quite often goes hand-in-hand with the creative arts, regardless of success. I often have to take a few months off to get a fresher perspective on things. I truly enjoy the process of making nature photos and try not to be too hard on myself, though I take it quite seriously. Sometimes I wonder if by trying too hard the creative juices don't flow as well. Life seems to have so many complications and photography is such a pleasant release that the day it starts to become a negative event will be the day I stop doing it.
Posted by David Senesac on October 27, 2008 at 12:03 AM
One can always find frustration by merely visiting unproductive landscapes. The SF Bay Area where I live can be a frustrating place to find subjects as strong as those from more spectacular California areas. Easy to find good subjects but not great ones. However persistence can pay off and so eventually I have managed a few worthy shots representing my home area. One of these subjects was ridiculously frustrating and discouraging. I wasted so much gas over the years at 4 gallons a trip. Either too breezy or too foggy over and over. Finally in 2006, one day cooperated. But I am not one that believes in luck or bad luck. To me it is all about numerical random chance. So I don't let discouragement sink into some unlucky belief. Here is a link to the image and story:
I draw my experience from maintaining a weekly newspaper column for over 20 years. Sometimes it's darned hard to find a compelling subject, much less write about it in a way that's simultaneously informative and entertaining. My solution (I guess you could also call it an insight) is to play. I'll start writing something outrageous within the topical area of my columns, and at some magic point the piece moves from pure recreation to serious writing. Some editing is in order for sure, but that's a small job once I've found my way out of the mire.
I bring that up, because I've learned to do the same type of thing with photography. If it gets too serious and starts to weigh you down, go play. Leave your serious camera in the bag and switch to a point and shoot, or at least turn your serious camera over to completely automatic settings. Now go out and play with your subject matter and break every rule you can think of. Sooner rather than later you're likely to stumble on some idea or subject that punches your creative buttons, I'll bet.
Alas, I know exactly how you feel. I work full time and the occasional bits of time I find the time and hint of motivation to do photography tend to be quite discouraging. I can't get into a photography mindset in a couple of hours, or even in a couple of days. I have to be completely removed from my everyday life for a good week or so to relax and see the beauty of nature and, when I feel like it, make photographs. I suppose I am living the quotation "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them." - Henry David Thoreau. Gee, that's sort of discouraging! Sorry, man.
Discouragement follows all of us in some form or another. For me I just try to settle down and be appreciative of what I have done, and what I have. I will always be seeing that next image and wish I had shot it or wish I could visit the location. I am just grateful to have a camera that has the capability of taking a good image and the knowledge that I still have opportunities to go out and come home with one of those images. I think sometimes we forget just how much fun or how relaxing it was just to be out in nature trying to get that one shot. For me I will always be appreciative of the challenge and be grateful of the opportunity to try and achieve the money shot. Depression and discouragement will just have to wait for another time.
One factor that hasn't come up yet is good company. I've got a friend who's a terrific photographer, but to his great frustration really falls off his game when left to his own devices. That is, until I show up. We just have so gosh darned much fun in the hills together that his photography picks up immediately when I can be around. But by himself he's pretty easily discouraged.
I'm not immune. Several days ago I took a contract to produce 7 closeup photos for a web site. No big deal, right? But the subject matter and technique bored me senseless, and I kept putting it off.
A friend stopped by this afternoon to invite me on an adventure, but I had to admit I had procrastinated myself into a corner and needed to get the photos out for delivery by tomorrow.
He's a budding photographer and started asking me questions about how I would manage the shots. Next thing you know, explanations turned into demonstrations and I had the job done in under an hour. And that left plenty of time for our outing!!
Sometimes good friends are invaluable assets, whether you are one or you have one.
Posted by Steve Foss on October 28, 2008 at 2:05 AM
It was brought up, Hank, but VERY early in the thread.
Thanks for being gentle, Steve! Memory is such a terrible thing to lose.
Posted by William Vrolyk on October 28, 2008 at 11:11 AM
The feedback I am getting here is tremendous.
Richard, I especially take note of your reply. Your suggestion to turn discouragement into a motivator is taken to heart and I intend to adopt it into my life.
Another factor I note is that while we know that our work is made to be shown and shared, it is also valuable to have a friend, or spouse, who shares your love for photography with you. It can be very upbuilding.
I am also reminded that one of the reasons I enjoy nature photography is nature itself. Sometimes I should stop focusing so much on the photography and relax and focus on the beauty of nature instead.
Thank you all for the wonderful response. It is beneficial to me and hopefully to anyone else who occassionally faces discouragement.
Will,
One of the things to remember is that the number of comments you get on here is not necessarily relevant to the quality of your images! The forums on here, particularly ESS, are getting more and more images, and certain images/photographers definitely get more comments that others. I haven't even been on here looking at images for several months because I frankly just have not had the time. I miss it, but making a living comes first, and my photography doesn' t pay much. In fact, I was nearly on the verge of selling my equipment, so yeah, I can really identify with you!!!
How to get over it? Go back to your basic reasons for being a nature photographer. I love being out in nature, and I swear, every time I'm out there without a camera, I see the most incredible shot!! Today, I was in town without a camera, and there was a cow moose with two calves, eating berries off a Mountain Ash, right in the middle of town. No camera, so I just stood there and watched. It was so neat!!! Things like that energize me, and remind me what I want to do.
Discussion
18 repliesBut sometimes I feel that I face something similar to "writers' block" and I find it difficult to find meaningful images. Other times response to my posts in the galleries are discouraging. I usually deal with that by reminding myself that low page views and comments is a critique in itself and it is up to me to find out why the shot is a miss.
Sheer determination and a desire to succeed is how I deal with facing discouragement. I focus on the positive. I remind myself that I have sold my work and even sold many large prints to a client who did not see the images beforehand. When I offered a selection from which the client could choose I was told to pick what I wanted. Showing my photos to staff at work and to family and friends always boosts encouragement.
How do you deal with discouragement? Have you ever faced it? If not how do you avoid it?
Your replies are important to me.
Thank you.
Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
There are days I despair that I'll ever take a really inspiring photograph in my life, and other days when everything seems to click for me. In each case, it's my own mood and mindset that determines whether it's a "clicking" day or a "curmudgeon" day.
While I don't come right out and say it to people when I'm discouraged, I do tend to seek out situations (whether it's with my wife in person or with clients/friends via e-mail or in a couple online boards like this one) where I get positive feedback that helps swing my mood around.
And being in the wilds is always a tonic for me. That's especially important because there are days when I simply don't want to have to exert myself through communication with other people, and on those days a walk/sit in the woods (with the camera handy but photography not the goal at all) is just the right kind of restorative.
I also have a good friend who lives only 15 miles away, works here in Ely and is a photographer himself. We often go for rides through the forest roads and have long, rambling conversations about photography in general and the business of it (we're both actually making a business of photography). We are supportive of each other, and I always feel good after those rides. He does too. Sometimes we even take pictures on those jaunts.
It's probably no surprise to people who have been doing this a long time that sitting in one beautiful place within nature for hours or hanging out with people you like, and ignoring the camera sitting next to you, can lead to some of the best photography. Sometimes, to do you most inspired work you have to forget you have a camera along.
For me, I get discourged a lot and for any number of reasons; no time to shoot due to family and business responsibilities, living in a part of the northeast that routinely has crappy light, seeing all the epic shots other people are getting while I'm stuck painting my house, being bored with the landscape in which I live, and the list goes on.
I try to overcome my discouragement or shooters block in a number of ways; show work to family and friends (as you describe), make a big print, give myself a theme or challenge to focus my shooting, plan a photo trip, simply get off my ass or out of bed and go for a walk theres usually something to shoot locally, and finally, get some exercise (can't overstate the importance of this). I often find that if I haven't been active or in a routine of exercising my mood can be quite sour and I easily get discouraged photographically. By simply going for a run, bike ride, walk, whatever, I feel better, think clearer and tend to be far more creative. Hope this helps and can't wait to hear what others do.
I very recently went through a period like this and commented on it in my blog. I've copied it below (slight edits for space), but for me, I think that being dissatisifed is a core part of becoming a decent photographer - you can't improve unless you can see that there's a problem.
----
One of the things I've found about becoming more deeply interested in photography is that the satisfaction I get from my images has actually declined. This realisation came after spending somewhere in the region of six hours on Sunday evening trying to get what I thought should be a fairly simple image - a follow up to the last stacked image of an insect on sundew. The result was frustration, frustration, frustration! Don't misunderstand what I mean - I'm glued to my camera - just that as I've gained experience, my definition of what constitutes a good image has become a lot less forgiving than it used to be. The result - most shots don't make the grade any more.
This made me think about what I was trying to achieve, and what I had actually managed to do over the past few years of serious photography, leading to a deep insight (tongue deeply embedded in cheek here) into...
The developmental stages of a nature photographer...
It's all about memories (egg).
Interested in wildlife (birds, mammals), get given/buy a camera. Shoot everything for memories... Images developed (well... printed anyway) by Boots/Snappy Snaps/1-hour Photo/ whoever is nearest and cheapest. Doesn't worry if images show camera shake, over/under exposure or the subject is tiny - the record of that moment in time is what matters.
Knows: which button to press.
Happy with: most shots.
Main worry: lens caps.
It's all about technique (first instar).
Discover that photography gives you insights into wildlife that you hadn't considered, especially the small and commonplace. Become a better natural historian. Improve basic composition and technique. Quality improves hugely in a very short period of time, so record shots are now worth showing to people. Start buying specialised kit, but tries to save money by getting the cheaper stuff, especially with regard to tripods. Basic ability to edit using Photoshop, but with a tendency to over-sharpen and over-saturate.Very happy with general excellence of own images, which are obviously as good as anyone else's - unfortunately the ability to self-critique is poorly developed.
Knows: less than they think.
Happy with: many shots.
Main worry: image softness.
It's all about kit (second instar).
Your camera follows you everywhere, and you know it so well that you don't have to look to change the settings. Understand the theory of photography well; possesses a good understanding of Photoshop. Realise that the cheap kit is cheap for a reason; know that a Gitzo will make the difference - who in their right mind would buy a Vanguard?! Look at other people's images and see where they went wrong (and happy to share those insights with them; a bit more blinkered when it comes to their own images). Deliberately plan days just for image-making - location, location, location... (red deer, grey seals, red kites all ticked off - sorry UK bias here!).
Knows: the content of every camera review.
Happy with: a few shots, but then again they know that these are actually pretty good by any one's standards.
Main worry: filling the frame.
It's all about technique... ...again (third instar).
Slight development from the instar above, but now is a Photoshop master. More critical of technical qualities of own images. Able to spot a colour-cast at 100 paces. Can use the word bokeh in a sentance without feeling pretentious. Thinks seriously about joining an agency to sell some images.
Knows: how to produce a pretty decent print.
Happy with: fewer shots (meet above standards and also has to be of agency submission quality).
Main worry - noise at low ISOs.
It's all about me (pupa).
Settings on camera are now almost instinctive, and all relevant editing programs second nature - they are technically in control. Look back at own work, and realise that while the images are fine, they lack a certain something - they are producing cliches. Becoming their own worst critics, they spend a day just trying to get one acceptable image, and then failing, mainly because what they've produced is just the same as a million other images. Generally grumpy and dissatisfied with photographic life, especially when they see what some other people are capable of producing.
Knows: that there's more to nature photography than technique, but not sure what the more is yet.
Happy with: very few shots, or more often, no shots at all.
Main worry: perfection.
It's all about the vision (imago).
Managed to figure out their answers to life, the universe and image making. They have their own defined way of looking at the world - their pictures have a contact with the subject that's planned, rather than just being a lucky break. Often it's not the subject that matters, but the context it's in. Weather, environment, behaviour, interactions matter hugely. Considers sensor noise to be an over-rated problem.
Knows: enough.
Happy with: the shot.
Main worry: imitators.
I'm guessing that the last works that way - perhaps one day I'll feel as if I've got there! I suppose that the good thing about feeling unsatisfied is that it pushes you towards improvement.
--------------
When i get discouraged it is best to look back and realize that I sell hundreds of thousands of dollars of art work a year. People actually buy this stuff - at some shows it is easyto forget this and compliments don't do. It is very easy for me to be discouraged and to forget all the blessings I get from having such a great job.
http://www.davidsenesac.com/images/print_06-x1-3.html
I bring that up, because I've learned to do the same type of thing with photography. If it gets too serious and starts to weigh you down, go play. Leave your serious camera in the bag and switch to a point and shoot, or at least turn your serious camera over to completely automatic settings. Now go out and play with your subject matter and break every rule you can think of. Sooner rather than later you're likely to stumble on some idea or subject that punches your creative buttons, I'll bet.
Pete D.
I'm not immune. Several days ago I took a contract to produce 7 closeup photos for a web site. No big deal, right? But the subject matter and technique bored me senseless, and I kept putting it off.
A friend stopped by this afternoon to invite me on an adventure, but I had to admit I had procrastinated myself into a corner and needed to get the photos out for delivery by tomorrow.
He's a budding photographer and started asking me questions about how I would manage the shots. Next thing you know, explanations turned into demonstrations and I had the job done in under an hour. And that left plenty of time for our outing!!
Sometimes good friends are invaluable assets, whether you are one or you have one.
Thanks for being gentle, Steve! Memory is such a terrible thing to lose.
Richard, I especially take note of your reply. Your suggestion to turn discouragement into a motivator is taken to heart and I intend to adopt it into my life.
Another factor I note is that while we know that our work is made to be shown and shared, it is also valuable to have a friend, or spouse, who shares your love for photography with you. It can be very upbuilding.
I am also reminded that one of the reasons I enjoy nature photography is nature itself. Sometimes I should stop focusing so much on the photography and relax and focus on the beauty of nature instead.
Thank you all for the wonderful response. It is beneficial to me and hopefully to anyone else who occassionally faces discouragement.
Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
One of the things to remember is that the number of comments you get on here is not necessarily relevant to the quality of your images! The forums on here, particularly ESS, are getting more and more images, and certain images/photographers definitely get more comments that others. I haven't even been on here looking at images for several months because I frankly just have not had the time. I miss it, but making a living comes first, and my photography doesn' t pay much. In fact, I was nearly on the verge of selling my equipment, so yeah, I can really identify with you!!!
How to get over it? Go back to your basic reasons for being a nature photographer. I love being out in nature, and I swear, every time I'm out there without a camera, I see the most incredible shot!! Today, I was in town without a camera, and there was a cow moose with two calves, eating berries off a Mountain Ash, right in the middle of town. No camera, so I just stood there and watched. It was so neat!!! Things like that energize me, and remind me what I want to do.