I've been asked by a publisher to write a book for release in the autumn of 2009. It would consist of 30 chapters of daily readings with stories and thoughts for the day. The book would have about 190 pages. The publisher wants the book to be full color and filled with many of my images. My question is whether I should be negotiating separately for the text and the photos. I have a feeling they may want to lump it together and just pay the standard royalty but that would mean that I wouldn't make any more than if I just did the text. Any thoughts on how I should proceed or if there are any standards out there for this type of a situation? I haven't yet received the contract or signed anything so I still have time to negotiate.
I look forward to your input.
Posted by Steve Foss on October 27, 2008 at 7:20 PM
You don't necessarily have to negotiate them separately, but you definitely should be compensated for the images as well as the text.
Is this a large publisher or a smaller regional outfit? If it's a larger one, you might consider seeing if you can interest an agent. If it's a small business, I'd simply level with them and say you believe you should be compensated for your images just as for your writing.
I've done quite a lot of work with a small regional book publisher, and my wife has done even more work with them, and when the illustrator/photographer is separate from the writer, each negotiates his/her own royalties. When the same person provides both visual and copy, the royalties double.
Steve, it is a smaller company so I don't think an agent would be needed. Your response was very helpful. A doubling of royalties sounds like a good thing to aim for.
if it is a photo book, the authors doing the text are often being paid a certain fix (and before agreed upon) amount and the main author (in that case the photographer) is paid in royalties. you should be definitely paid for both, but maybe in two different ways. but getting doubled royalties seem very doable with smaller companies, too.
good luck!
georg
This is a side issue, but if there's an advance involved I'd be very careful not to let it get too big. I know three different authors whose books didn't do all that well, and in fact didn't generate enough sales to pay back the advance. Their books were on the Barnes and Noble sale table before they received their first cent of royalties. In one case the advance terms were written such that they actually ended up repaying part of the advance.
If you do get an advance, whatever the terms, I'd be inclined to bank as much of it as possible against the outcome of future sales.
George, thank you for your input. That will be helpful in negotiations which should begin this next week. Thank you Hank for your very wise advice. I will certainly be extra careful in this area. What a great place this is!
If I'm not preaching to the choir, I'll add that advances are in many ways double edged swords. From the publisher's viewpoint, they serve two purposes. They lock you into a contractual agreement to help assure that you finish the book (read: provide recoverable penalties against your failure to produce). Advances also provide funds for you to use in compleating the job.
The first viewpoint is a sobering insight for most folks. The second point is easy to overlook. You could consume your entire advance compleating the book, yet have to "pay back" all those funds before royalties begin to appear in your bank account. It's a no-lose situation for the publisher, considering that they get to recover all the advance before you see a cent. While too many folks see and advance as "income" for the book, it's only income if you manage to save it rather than spend it to finish the book.
Posted by Jerry Greer on December 30, 2008 at 8:36 PM
Hank,
As a publisher, things are a bit different these days. Our costs to produce the books have increased over 30% due to the weak dollar. We are required buy the retailers to give deeper discounts than ever before! Sometimes as much as 60% for the big box stores and that's with the right to return. Westcliffe almost always required that the photographer raise the funding for the first printing, which can be in the $20,000 range before he would even think of publishing. The days of photo books and big advances are over! Farcountry pays a set fee, somewhere around $2,500 to $3,500 for a print run of 7,500 copies on a $20.00 retail price. It's very tough! Think about it, a book sells for $20.00 retail. Average wholesale discount is 50% so that leaves $10.00 profit. Cost to print (including prepress and design) is $4.50 per copy, very conservative that leaves us $5.50. Now we have to figure overhead, like storage and shipping, another $1.75 per book, now were at $3.75. There will be 10% returned for damage returns, on a print run of 5,000 that will be about 500 copies, this will cost us about .40 per book averaged over the print run leaving us at $3.35. Now we have $15,000 to split with the photographer and the writer. Now remember, the publisher is putting up all the money and ALL the risk! This is just something for you guys and gals to think about!
Agreed. In fact, it's giving quite a leg up to online publishers like Blurb. In truth most photographer's needs can be met with anything from a dozen to a few hundred books. The recent experience with the TPN Book is a perfect example. Quality is outstanding, costs are within reason, and it's fast.
Posted by Jerry Greer on January 1, 2009 at 1:51 PM
Hank,
It's really whether you're using a book as a vanity press (just a few copies to say you have a book) or as a portfolio. If you want to make money, a publisher is the only way to go but money comes with projects that sell. The days of photo books with only pretty photos is dead. It must be a book that has a theme with lots of great text and photos. It's a tough world for photographers in today's market. We've have been successful by keeping our overhead low and producing products that have little competition and selling in niche markets.
If you want to sell through book stores, small and large, book publishers are the only way.
Discussion
9 repliesI look forward to your input.
Is this a large publisher or a smaller regional outfit? If it's a larger one, you might consider seeing if you can interest an agent. If it's a small business, I'd simply level with them and say you believe you should be compensated for your images just as for your writing.
I've done quite a lot of work with a small regional book publisher, and my wife has done even more work with them, and when the illustrator/photographer is separate from the writer, each negotiates his/her own royalties. When the same person provides both visual and copy, the royalties double.
good luck!
georg
If you do get an advance, whatever the terms, I'd be inclined to bank as much of it as possible against the outcome of future sales.
If I'm not preaching to the choir, I'll add that advances are in many ways double edged swords. From the publisher's viewpoint, they serve two purposes. They lock you into a contractual agreement to help assure that you finish the book (read: provide recoverable penalties against your failure to produce). Advances also provide funds for you to use in compleating the job.
The first viewpoint is a sobering insight for most folks. The second point is easy to overlook. You could consume your entire advance compleating the book, yet have to "pay back" all those funds before royalties begin to appear in your bank account. It's a no-lose situation for the publisher, considering that they get to recover all the advance before you see a cent. While too many folks see and advance as "income" for the book, it's only income if you manage to save it rather than spend it to finish the book.
As a publisher, things are a bit different these days. Our costs to produce the books have increased over 30% due to the weak dollar. We are required buy the retailers to give deeper discounts than ever before! Sometimes as much as 60% for the big box stores and that's with the right to return. Westcliffe almost always required that the photographer raise the funding for the first printing, which can be in the $20,000 range before he would even think of publishing. The days of photo books and big advances are over! Farcountry pays a set fee, somewhere around $2,500 to $3,500 for a print run of 7,500 copies on a $20.00 retail price. It's very tough! Think about it, a book sells for $20.00 retail. Average wholesale discount is 50% so that leaves $10.00 profit. Cost to print (including prepress and design) is $4.50 per copy, very conservative that leaves us $5.50. Now we have to figure overhead, like storage and shipping, another $1.75 per book, now were at $3.75. There will be 10% returned for damage returns, on a print run of 5,000 that will be about 500 copies, this will cost us about .40 per book averaged over the print run leaving us at $3.35. Now we have $15,000 to split with the photographer and the writer. Now remember, the publisher is putting up all the money and ALL the risk! This is just something for you guys and gals to think about!
It's really whether you're using a book as a vanity press (just a few copies to say you have a book) or as a portfolio. If you want to make money, a publisher is the only way to go but money comes with projects that sell. The days of photo books with only pretty photos is dead. It must be a book that has a theme with lots of great text and photos. It's a tough world for photographers in today's market. We've have been successful by keeping our overhead low and producing products that have little competition and selling in niche markets.
If you want to sell through book stores, small and large, book publishers are the only way.