Posted by Tim Gregory on November 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM
Yes its a rant.
I went to DNook yesterday, and for the first time in a month it was totally rammed with people.. Bumped into some quite decent characters including a foreign chap who seemed like a good guy..
DNook is my local patch, and I to be honest, I was quite impressed by the conduct of most people there, many people being careful on the approach, giving the seals plenty of room - especially the pups. One or 2 instances of silliness, but on the whole not too bad.
Unfortunatley on the walk back to the carpark I bumped into the same foreigner again, practically ramming a wide angle lens and DSLR with pro flashgun, down a female seal's mouth, as she was in a defensive pose in front of her pup, and going for his lens with her mouth wide open from about 3-6 inches away, howling like a banshee.. She couldn't go anywhere, or run off.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't claim to be "whiter than white" i've made a mess of things in the past and caused disturbance by pushing it a little too far, maybe learning a lesson or 2 a long the way.
But I have never taken advantage of a vulnerable pup/cow just to get some shots. And i've never dreamed of actually invoking an aggressive reaction simply to take some photographs and cram my 17-40 down a seals throat, flashgun blazing.
Maybe the guy will go on and win some amazing competition with it, maybe the female seal got so angry that she moved away from her pup and didn't feed it... Maybe i'm overreacting.
Posted by F.DESMETTE on November 17, 2008 at 6:52 AM
Hi Tim
Of course, you had a chat with that bloke and explain to him why you did not agree with his form of photography.
Best wishes
Frederic
Hello Tim,
I have to agree with your comments about 'making a mess of things', I'm certain that each of us at some time has made a genuine mistake. Hopefully as you say, we learn from those mistakes and don't repeat them. However, in the instance you mentioned and on the evidence that you have presented, that photographer was most definitely out of order. I hope you made your feelings clear to him and then maybe he will be shamed enough to think twice the next time.
Robert
There is 3 things at conspire to produce these situations...
1) Those that have to travel some distance to a site normally exhibit a more 'lust' like behaviour for the photo than those that are local. The further the distance the more that 'lust' is exhibited. Everybody has to get THE shot.
2) Many people who frequent these sites simply are have no concept of field technique, they see other photographers that are close and hence approach to the same distance whilst being ignorant of how that photographer got that close. ( this is particulary true of the 'compact' photographer)
3) For the vast majority of people (inc photographers) who attend these hotspots their knowledge of the animal is limited to that of being able to spell its name.
So what can we do other than leave if the people density is to high or, if we must stay, lead by example by putting the animal first regardless of the expense/effort spent and then use long lenses to avoid people seeing us close as they will never appreciate fieldcraft.
Offering polite advise works infrequently, offering a mouthful normally just gets a curt two word reply.
T
Posted by Anthony House on November 17, 2008 at 7:14 AM
My mate was there yesterday and said it was like billy smarts circus.. maybe they should charge for the parking to pay for a warden to patrol and monitor peoples behaviour around the seals.... It will most likely be closed down if it carries on....
Give animals respect and they will reward you, is my policy! Sadly it's people like this guy Tim that will spoil it for the rest, amateur or pro. Agree with Tom about offering a polite word, however, it might be difficult at times when you see this kind of action. Best of luck
Steve
Posted by Tim Gregory on November 17, 2008 at 7:40 AM
I did think about walking over and having a chat, but didn't because:
The guy knew that he was causing real upset, he had all the gear and knew exactly what sort of shot he wanted and didn't give a damn about the misery he was causing to get it. It would have just caused more upset if I'd have waltzed over from my moral highground and tried to "tell the guy off" or "have a word" as I don't really see how politley I could have put what he was doing..
I don't like explaining the obvious to people, and I don't see myself being part of the "conduct police" or out to "name and shame" anyone who doesn't conform to the rules.
It just annoys me more because DNook is my local area, I know most of the wardens and a few of the RAF guys, they all do a great job, especially in the rookery. However out on the sandbar anything goes..
The pups born out on the bar have a real hard time with the elements, especially with the higher tides and no protection, mum is all they have and from what I saw she spent more time trying to fend off a wideangle + D3 and strobes than she did seeing to her pup..
Tom - I totally agree with your points, I certainly agree with point 2. I guess its just what you get when you put joe public in with a breeding colonly of seals at a mainland haul-out site..
Posted by John Kerr on November 17, 2008 at 7:42 AM
Seen something similar to this with a seal guarding her still-born pup. The photographer involved had no Idea he was the cause of the upset! ( trying to get close up with a super wide lens) The mother was actually lunging at him but he wouldn't move. He eventually desisted after being told, in no uncertain terms, by the tour leader, the local guide and myself, to move away.Its no excuse but even the most respectful and sensible of people get caught up in the moment.
John
Posted by John Robinson on November 17, 2008 at 8:36 AM
Its a fact of the times these days and thats partly why I don't go to hotspots or twitches etc - I just end up getting worked up. The only place I am happy taking pictures these days is in the garden or on someones private land. I can remember going to Donna and I was the only one on the beach
We are all to blame - we show off our pictures and everyone wants to have a go.. Nowadays they can go out and get the gear and its relatively easy. Can you blame them ? As far as they are concerned field craft doesn't come into it. The last time I had a go at someone his response was "you take pictures don't you ?" with some anglo saxon additions. Toms hit the nail I think with distances some have to travel. Most of those folk have gone to the spot with a picture in their mind. They just have to go for it.
The other big problem in my mind is the desire to get that "unusual" shot. If your main aim is to sell- then it often has to be "unusual" of different. Hence cameras up bums etc.
It aint going to get any better in my opinion, but at least I had the good days.
JohnR
Tim - I agree that it can be difficult to be confrontational in such situation....however.....the 'amazing competition' winning shot that would result from the scene you describe is the one you could have taken as a perfect example of 'the wrong approach' - BBC Wildlife comp category 'World in Our Hands' or whatever it is. Your camera is a powerful tool if you use it wisely. Perhaps you did?
Sorry to hear that some photographers can't get the idea that nature photography is not a fashion shoot with models. However, at least you had people that were only using a camera. Yesterday at a large estuary area, which is Special Area of Conservation, I was watching a large number of waders and brent geese, when to my surprise I picked a person, a local landowner I presume, in the telescope walking towards the gesse with a retriver and a double barrell shot gun!. He was carrying the gun on the shoulder marching style UNBROKEN There were a number of walkers on a nearby beach and it appeared through the telescope that they had a few words with him. But he did not break the gun and walked off with the gun over the shoulder. What a muppet! Thankfully nothing happened to either the people or the wildlife. But it was an accident waiting to happen. Thing is there is no police or warden for miles to deal with this fool. This sort of behaviour would wreck your head.
MJ
Posted by Ian Haskell on November 17, 2008 at 4:04 PM
It really was a circus at Donna Nook this weekend just gone. The sort of behaviour described and commonly seen here is totally unacceptable and reflects on all nature photographers. This sort of behaviour does a great deal of harm not only to nature photographers but potentially to the wildlife - the subjects welfare should be put first and everyone should behave in a responsible manor - I believe that there is a code of conduct for photographers. It would be good if the photography magazines took note and published this in cooperation with the wildlife trusts around the UK. Anyone that publishes books on locations should also provide a code of conduct.
We all need to set an example and inform other less experience photographers and snappers with prosumer cameras and mobile phone cameras of the potential problems that they are causing. I felt so ashamed of everyone yesterday that I left early - I don't want to be part of this!
However maybe we should have a website where we take photographs of the offenders and embarass them on the Internet. They then may think twice.
Posted by Dave Sewell on November 17, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Sorry Tim but in my opinion you should have talked to him. I wouldn't have been able to help myself. Sometimes it IS your responsibility to deal with a situation if you're unhappy about it. Your reasons not to are pretty weak. Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in and not worry about upsetting somebody. John Kerrs story is an example of what should be done in this situation. Ranting here serves that seal and her pup no good at all.
Dave
Posted by Tim Gregory on November 17, 2008 at 6:34 PM
I do have to agree Dave, i've been sat at work today wishing i'd have gone over and at least just made it clear, even if he'd have told me to F Off, he wouldn't have gotten a free ride for his actions.. my reasons are weak, but at the time it just seemed like something I should expect and ignore..
I usually work alone, and to be on a beach with 20-30 other photographers, somebody taking advantage and causing great disturbance to an animal - its something i've never encountered or had to deal with before.. must grow some balls.
I do feel very bad for not having the guts to walk up and say something, but I just felt i'd do more harm than good... Next time i'll probably say something.
I'm 98% certain I know who the guy is, he is well known and has a portfolio here on NPN, if I'm right he'll be there next week, if I see him doing it again (Shoving a D3/Strobe right into a female seal's face whilst protecting her pup) i'll record the event and name and shame.. Because its totally unfair and it really has pissed me off.
Posted by eric weight on November 18, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Hey Tim. We are all trying to do what we think is right and sometimes we regret our decisions. I wouldn't beat myself up over it if I were you, just make a mental note for next time. Eric
Posted by Paul Thomas on November 18, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Donna Nook seems to attract the kind of people for whom a photograph is more important than the subject. This is the antithesis of wildlife photography and should not be tolerated. If I were so minded this spring I could have photographed some new born Red Deer calves at a place to which I knew several Hinds had moved to give birth (as some had done last year). However I feel my presence would have caused un-necessary stress to the deer so I deliberately stayed away until early June when the calves were less vulnerable and able to safely follow their mothers. It's all about respect for the wildlife.
Paul
Posted by Dave Sewell on November 21, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Tim,
Eric's right - don't beat yourself up about it and fair play for admitting you wish you'd said something. I'm lucky - at 5'5" nobody takes me seriously when I have a rant at them and even if I do it's not cool to smack a dwarf. So I get away with being quite aggresive in situations like that!
Having said that, sometimes it's quite surprising how ignorant people are and that they genuinly just don't know the harm they're causing until it's pointed out to them. Most wildlife photographers are decent and care about their subjects - they just need a little education sometimes!
Dave
Discussion
16 repliesI went to DNook yesterday, and for the first time in a month it was totally rammed with people.. Bumped into some quite decent characters including a foreign chap who seemed like a good guy..
DNook is my local patch, and I to be honest, I was quite impressed by the conduct of most people there, many people being careful on the approach, giving the seals plenty of room - especially the pups. One or 2 instances of silliness, but on the whole not too bad.
Unfortunatley on the walk back to the carpark I bumped into the same foreigner again, practically ramming a wide angle lens and DSLR with pro flashgun, down a female seal's mouth, as she was in a defensive pose in front of her pup, and going for his lens with her mouth wide open from about 3-6 inches away, howling like a banshee.. She couldn't go anywhere, or run off.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't claim to be "whiter than white" i've made a mess of things in the past and caused disturbance by pushing it a little too far, maybe learning a lesson or 2 a long the way.
But I have never taken advantage of a vulnerable pup/cow just to get some shots. And i've never dreamed of actually invoking an aggressive reaction simply to take some photographs and cram my 17-40 down a seals throat, flashgun blazing.
Maybe the guy will go on and win some amazing competition with it, maybe the female seal got so angry that she moved away from her pup and didn't feed it... Maybe i'm overreacting.
Of course, you had a chat with that bloke and explain to him why you did not agree with his form of photography.
Best wishes
Frederic
I have to agree with your comments about 'making a mess of things', I'm certain that each of us at some time has made a genuine mistake. Hopefully as you say, we learn from those mistakes and don't repeat them. However, in the instance you mentioned and on the evidence that you have presented, that photographer was most definitely out of order. I hope you made your feelings clear to him and then maybe he will be shamed enough to think twice the next time.
Robert
There is 3 things at conspire to produce these situations...
1) Those that have to travel some distance to a site normally exhibit a more 'lust' like behaviour for the photo than those that are local. The further the distance the more that 'lust' is exhibited. Everybody has to get THE shot.
2) Many people who frequent these sites simply are have no concept of field technique, they see other photographers that are close and hence approach to the same distance whilst being ignorant of how that photographer got that close. ( this is particulary true of the 'compact' photographer)
3) For the vast majority of people (inc photographers) who attend these hotspots their knowledge of the animal is limited to that of being able to spell its name.
So what can we do other than leave if the people density is to high or, if we must stay, lead by example by putting the animal first regardless of the expense/effort spent and then use long lenses to avoid people seeing us close as they will never appreciate fieldcraft.
Offering polite advise works infrequently, offering a mouthful normally just gets a curt two word reply.
T
Steve
The guy knew that he was causing real upset, he had all the gear and knew exactly what sort of shot he wanted and didn't give a damn about the misery he was causing to get it. It would have just caused more upset if I'd have waltzed over from my moral highground and tried to "tell the guy off" or "have a word" as I don't really see how politley I could have put what he was doing..
I don't like explaining the obvious to people, and I don't see myself being part of the "conduct police" or out to "name and shame" anyone who doesn't conform to the rules.
It just annoys me more because DNook is my local area, I know most of the wardens and a few of the RAF guys, they all do a great job, especially in the rookery. However out on the sandbar anything goes..
The pups born out on the bar have a real hard time with the elements, especially with the higher tides and no protection, mum is all they have and from what I saw she spent more time trying to fend off a wideangle + D3 and strobes than she did seeing to her pup..
Tom - I totally agree with your points, I certainly agree with point 2. I guess its just what you get when you put joe public in with a breeding colonly of seals at a mainland haul-out site..
John
We are all to blame - we show off our pictures and everyone wants to have a go.. Nowadays they can go out and get the gear and its relatively easy. Can you blame them ? As far as they are concerned field craft doesn't come into it. The last time I had a go at someone his response was "you take pictures don't you ?" with some anglo saxon additions. Toms hit the nail I think with distances some have to travel. Most of those folk have gone to the spot with a picture in their mind. They just have to go for it.
The other big problem in my mind is the desire to get that "unusual" shot. If your main aim is to sell- then it often has to be "unusual" of different. Hence cameras up bums etc.
It aint going to get any better in my opinion, but at least I had the good days.
JohnR
Sorry to hear that some photographers can't get the idea that nature photography is not a fashion shoot with models. However, at least you had people that were only using a camera. Yesterday at a large estuary area, which is Special Area of Conservation, I was watching a large number of waders and brent geese, when to my surprise I picked a person, a local landowner I presume, in the telescope walking towards the gesse with a retriver and a double barrell shot gun!. He was carrying the gun on the shoulder marching style UNBROKEN
MJ
We all need to set an example and inform other less experience photographers and snappers with prosumer cameras and mobile phone cameras of the potential problems that they are causing. I felt so ashamed of everyone yesterday that I left early - I don't want to be part of this!
However maybe we should have a website where we take photographs of the offenders and embarass them on the Internet. They then may think twice.
Dave
I usually work alone, and to be on a beach with 20-30 other photographers, somebody taking advantage and causing great disturbance to an animal - its something i've never encountered or had to deal with before.. must grow some balls.
I do feel very bad for not having the guts to walk up and say something, but I just felt i'd do more harm than good... Next time i'll probably say something.
I'm 98% certain I know who the guy is, he is well known and has a portfolio here on NPN, if I'm right he'll be there next week, if I see him doing it again (Shoving a D3/Strobe right into a female seal's face whilst protecting her pup) i'll record the event and name and shame.. Because its totally unfair and it really has pissed me off.
Paul
Eric's right - don't beat yourself up about it and fair play for admitting you wish you'd said something. I'm lucky - at 5'5" nobody takes me seriously when I have a rant at them and even if I do it's not cool to smack a dwarf. So I get away with being quite aggresive in situations like that!
Having said that, sometimes it's quite surprising how ignorant people are and that they genuinly just don't know the harm they're causing until it's pointed out to them. Most wildlife photographers are decent and care about their subjects - they just need a little education sometimes!
Dave