Posted by Rene de Heer on November 17, 2008 at 3:45 PM
Winter is upon us and thats the time i generally take most of my images. I will be going to Sweden this time and can't wait...this time for some totally different bird species, so watch this space! The most reliable place to photograph Golden eagles (in my book) is Scandinavia and more precise Finland. But still you need to know WHEN and WHEN not to go! And even then it takes a lot of effort and patience to get anything.
Rene de Heer
Posted by Dave Courtenay on November 17, 2008 at 4:03 PM
Beautiful image-cant beat snow images can you-Great pose and exposure
A welcome setting in my opinion, simply cracking, A nice alternative to Peters excellent posting.
Curious Rene, how do you meter for something like this, off the snow? Close to the subject matter?
Steve
Posted by Lea Roberts on November 17, 2008 at 4:50 PM
beautifull image
Posted by John Robinson on November 17, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Great image !
I wonder if just that bit more detail in the bird shadow areas would give the impression of reflection off the snow more ? Maybe my monitor but the bird looks a litle contrasty. I,d be happy with it though !
JohnR
Posted by John Chapman on November 17, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Superb shot Rene.
Posted by Ian Mason on November 17, 2008 at 6:45 PM
Excellent shot!
Posted by Kenny Turnbull on November 18, 2008 at 3:30 AM
Super shot.
I do think perhaps Pete Cairns' shot was made by himself from start to finish and that you were in a hide, in an area baited for golden eagles by someone else. (Jari?)
In short you were guided whilst Pete would have been his own guide.
It doesn't make it a lesser shot it just gives you less bragging rights in the pub.
Posted by Rene de Heer on November 18, 2008 at 3:46 AM
Super shot.
I do think perhaps Pete Cairns' shot was made by himself from start to finish and that you were in a hide, in an area baited for golden eagles by someone else. (Jari?)
In short you were guided whilst Pete would have been his own guide.
It doesn't make it a lesser shot it just gives you less bragging rights in the pub.
Absolutely right. This was in Olanka National park and yes i was guided. To put it in perpective:
Pete Cairns is (as far as i know) a full time photographer who has the time to do his research, i am a Marketing director in the CIty. I dont have the time to do my research, so yes i am dependable on the guidance of others to get my images. If i could i would love to do my own research....maybe when i'm a pensioner but for now this is the best i can come up with!
Rene de Heer
Posted by Mara Calvi on November 18, 2008 at 4:46 AM
Rene,
This pictures is amazing. will it be in your exhibition?
Mara
Posted by David Sewell on November 18, 2008 at 5:06 AM
Rene,
This is a lovely picture. The bird gives the impression of being cold, so I assume that you were too. How long did you have to wait to get the shot, and how long were you stuck in the hide afterwards?
David
Posted by Rene de Heer on November 18, 2008 at 5:10 AM
The hide is way up a hill, drop off was (as i recall) 6 in the morning on a snowscooter and you need to stay in till after dark. I think i left around 5 in the afternoon. The hide is actually pretty comfortable without getting too cold.
Rene de Heer
Posted by Andy Astbury on November 18, 2008 at 6:13 AM
One of your very best images Rene
I'm just hoping I get some decent shots myself in February, even if the snow is less predictable.
Posted by Dawn Monrose on November 18, 2008 at 6:36 AM
Superb! Beautiful bird, well exposed.
Posted by John Robinson on November 18, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Seems like both the recent Eagle images were at a pre baited sites after all
Or am I reading things wrongly.
As some one has said on another post -its like baiting blue tits. Not quite the same I hasten to add, but the idea's similar I suppose.
Whats it matter / Perhaps thats been debated a thousand times.
Cheers
JR
Fantastic picture and very well exposed . Well done.
Sandra
Posted by Peter Cairns on November 18, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Rene
Pete Cairns may be full time but he still hasn't got the time to do what would be required to secure these types of images on home ground - some would say perhaps not the skill either! The point is that both your image and (hopefully) mine have created a reaction and to that end, both have done their job equally well irrespective of how far we walked, how cold it was, how long we were in our different hides for etc.
If I was given a commission tomorrow to photograph golden eagles in Scotland, I'd do it gladly but the resultant images are unlikely to be any better than yours or mine. And, they'd not be seen by any bigger an audience either.
Interesting thread undoubtedly but I'm sceptical about the merit of over-analysing the approach.
Nice eagle by the way!
Pete
Posted by Kenny Turnbull on November 18, 2008 at 3:02 PM
My apologies Rene. You have as much right to brag in the pub as Pete does.
My only concern about this kind of photography is that you are shooting a scene that has been set up for you by someone else, to their standard and from a vantage point of their choosing. Apart from paying your bill and pressing the shutter button what else did you do to make this photo yours? I'd say you both took the photo but it was made by someone else. As photographers do we want to make photos or merely take them?
To the pros, the market dictates what you shoot for a living and how you shoot it, but this is not a market driven forum (least I think not) so why not come come on here and show us photos that you make rather than ones you take.
Posted by Peter Cairns on November 19, 2008 at 2:37 AM
Hi Kenny
Another interesting twist!! I take your point.
In this case, around five years ago I visited this location in Norway and chose the exact spot for the (now) permanent hide. I consulted with the local operator and advised on background, type of bait, positioning of bait etc etc. I've now gone back to finally take advantage of that early groundwork (as others have done in the meantime). Again, it doesn't impact on the resultant image as such but I would like to think that in this case, I contributed to the 'making of' as well as the 'taking of'. And to be fair to myself, had I not had that early involvement with this particular site, I may well have not felt the draw to visit.
These discussions do allow us I hope, to look at our methodology and ideals and re-examine them from time to time. This golden eagle thread has thrown up some insightful views and I for one, am grateful for that.
Where is the line between make and take?
If we visit an RSPB/WWT/WT/Gigrin etc hide did we make or take the image; if we visit a maintained grouse moor and use a stone butt, is this any different to sitting in a RSPB hide?
In truth the vast majority of us use some other persons/organisations/companies effort for a fair proportion of our wild images - some of us pay for this by being members of the above organisations and some others pay an increased amount (because they chose to) for smaller 'niche' set-ups: however the principle is the same for in each case we pay for others to prepare the way for our photography.
In my mind there is a difference between take and make but is not dependant upon the utilisation of anothers effort - paid or otherwise.
PS Rene - lovely picture and well worth the effort.
Posted by Kenny Turnbull on November 19, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Tom,
I suppose the difference between using a grouse butt and using a purpose built hide is that you've used your brain to think of another use for the butt rather than the one it was intended for, therefore you are having a considerable input into making your shot. Understanding how your subject will look from it in given light, understanding where your subject will appear from and actually finding a butt that suits your vision says to me that you are making a shot your own
In the same way I suppose the intended user of the butt is no more a hunter but a shooter, the hunting being done by someone else on his behalf he only has to hit the bird without understanding how it came to be there
Interesting, but totally hijacking Rene's lovely shot
Discussion
20 repliesRene de Heer
Dave
Curious Rene, how do you meter for something like this, off the snow? Close to the subject matter?
Steve
I wonder if just that bit more detail in the bird shadow areas would give the impression of reflection off the snow more ? Maybe my monitor but the bird looks a litle contrasty. I,d be happy with it though !
JohnR
I do think perhaps Pete Cairns' shot was made by himself from start to finish and that you were in a hide, in an area baited for golden eagles by someone else. (Jari?)
In short you were guided whilst Pete would have been his own guide.
It doesn't make it a lesser shot it just gives you less bragging rights in the pub.
Absolutely right. This was in Olanka National park and yes i was guided. To put it in perpective:
Pete Cairns is (as far as i know) a full time photographer who has the time to do his research, i am a Marketing director in the CIty. I dont have the time to do my research, so yes i am dependable on the guidance of others to get my images. If i could i would love to do my own research....maybe when i'm a pensioner
Rene de Heer
This pictures is amazing. will it be in your exhibition?
Mara
This is a lovely picture. The bird gives the impression of being cold, so I assume that you were too. How long did you have to wait to get the shot, and how long were you stuck in the hide afterwards?
David
Rene de Heer
I'm just hoping I get some decent shots myself in February, even if the snow is less predictable.
Or am I reading things wrongly.
As some one has said on another post -its like baiting blue tits. Not quite the same I hasten to add, but the idea's similar I suppose.
Whats it matter / Perhaps thats been debated a thousand times.
Cheers
JR
Sandra
Pete Cairns may be full time but he still hasn't got the time to do what would be required to secure these types of images on home ground - some would say perhaps not the skill either! The point is that both your image and (hopefully) mine have created a reaction and to that end, both have done their job equally well irrespective of how far we walked, how cold it was, how long we were in our different hides for etc.
If I was given a commission tomorrow to photograph golden eagles in Scotland, I'd do it gladly but the resultant images are unlikely to be any better than yours or mine. And, they'd not be seen by any bigger an audience either.
Interesting thread undoubtedly but I'm sceptical about the merit of over-analysing the approach.
Nice eagle by the way!
Pete
My only concern about this kind of photography is that you are shooting a scene that has been set up for you by someone else, to their standard and from a vantage point of their choosing. Apart from paying your bill and pressing the shutter button what else did you do to make this photo yours? I'd say you both took the photo but it was made by someone else. As photographers do we want to make photos or merely take them?
To the pros, the market dictates what you shoot for a living and how you shoot it, but this is not a market driven forum (least I think not) so why not come come on here and show us photos that you make rather than ones you take.
Another interesting twist!! I take your point.
In this case, around five years ago I visited this location in Norway and chose the exact spot for the (now) permanent hide. I consulted with the local operator and advised on background, type of bait, positioning of bait etc etc. I've now gone back to finally take advantage of that early groundwork (as others have done in the meantime). Again, it doesn't impact on the resultant image as such but I would like to think that in this case, I contributed to the 'making of' as well as the 'taking of'. And to be fair to myself, had I not had that early involvement with this particular site, I may well have not felt the draw to visit.
These discussions do allow us I hope, to look at our methodology and ideals and re-examine them from time to time. This golden eagle thread has thrown up some insightful views and I for one, am grateful for that.
Pete
If we visit an RSPB/WWT/WT/Gigrin etc hide did we make or take the image; if we visit a maintained grouse moor and use a stone butt, is this any different to sitting in a RSPB hide?
In truth the vast majority of us use some other persons/organisations/companies effort for a fair proportion of our wild images - some of us pay for this by being members of the above organisations and some others pay an increased amount (because they chose to) for smaller 'niche' set-ups: however the principle is the same for in each case we pay for others to prepare the way for our photography.
In my mind there is a difference between take and make but is not dependant upon the utilisation of anothers effort - paid or otherwise.
PS Rene - lovely picture and well worth the effort.
I suppose the difference between using a grouse butt and using a purpose built hide is that you've used your brain to think of another use for the butt rather than the one it was intended for, therefore you are having a considerable input into making your shot. Understanding how your subject will look from it in given light, understanding where your subject will appear from and actually finding a butt that suits your vision says to me that you are making a shot your own
In the same way I suppose the intended user of the butt is no more a hunter but a shooter, the hunting being done by someone else on his behalf he only has to hit the bird without understanding how it came to be there
Interesting, but totally hijacking Rene's lovely shot