Posted by Tim Gregory on November 30, 2008 at 10:35 AM
I'm using a Macbook Pro for all my photo work, connected to an external Eizo S2410w, calibrated with an i1.
When I import images into lightroom, process and export as 16bit tiff to Photoshop for sharpening/etc, the colours remain exactly the same. Print matching is also about spot on with my Epson 3800, printing to well known papers with canned or provided profiles..
I do however prefer working with Aperture, but after a while I discovered that it seemed to be adding saturation and a slight red/magenta cast to all images viewed within it.
When I exported the file from Aperture to Photoshop as a tiff, the cast/saturation disappeared and the file appeared as normal. Which is fine but of course it makes adjustments in Aperture almost impossible as your working with this weird saturation/cast.
I've had my monitor ICC profile checked by people *in the know* and they say its fine, print matching from PS confirms this. Its just viewing in Aperture which is the problem.
Below is a side by side screengrab, (photoshop on left, aperture on right, both images have no adjustment)
http://www.doorslammers.co.uk/comp3.jpg
I can see the difference on any monitor regardless of whether its calibrated, you should be able to see it anywhere.
I can't find any evidence or reason why this is happening anywhere. And furthermore, I came across something else earlier which I find highly bizarre:
When I'm using full screen to apply my adjustments and check colour/etc, I sometimes use the Loupe. I discovered earlier that the image displayed within the Loupe differes from the part where the Cursor is, this is visible when both bits of the Loupe are the same diameter, and the image is being viewed at 100%, see below:
http://www.doorslammers.co.uk/argh.jpg
Why on earth is the image different in each part of the Loupe? Furthermore, the bit of the image processed by the Loupe, seems to be missing the slight cast/saturation, and reflects more how it looks in lightroom/photoshop..
The only way I can reproduce your issue is to have Aperture running in Quick Preview mode (View->Quick Preview is ticked). When it runs in this mode, it uses the thumbnail image it's built or ripped from the raw file and doesn't do a full process of the raw data for display, the image may then appear in sRGB rather than the full colour space, and may appear to have colour shifts. Try turning Quick Preview off (press P to toggle it) and see if that makes a difference. When it's turned on, you also have a yellow icon appears in the pane below the image view in the windowed mode - you can click the icon to toggle quick preview on/off too.
Outside of that, the other explanation for any difference in the image you see on-screen in Aperture and the one you see in PS is that you have On-Screen Proofing enabled and that the proofing colour profile is set to something other than Adobe98 RGB or sRGB. Check View->Onscreen Proofing to see if it's ticked - if it is, then toggle it off by clicking on the menu item, or pressing Shift-Alt-P
HTH
Posted by Tim Gregory on November 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Hi Nick..
Tried them all already a long time ago, I never use quick preview, and i've tried onscreen proofing with all manner of different colour spaces when testing for the problem. Even with AdobeRGB/sRGB or my monitor colour space, there is still a slight exaggeration in the saturation and this red cast. The saturation/cast doesn't seem to follow any particular proofing profile, any one I pick show the same problem.
Go back to basics - turn off on-screen proofing (you don't need it turned on), and make sure you're not using quick preview. I've tried various ways to replicate your loupe issue and the only way I can replicate it is to have quick preview turned on - then I can pick up a colour change in the loupe as you describe (I've set a b&w proofing profile) - the screen image is colour, but the loupe is b&w.
What colour profile is your camera set to tag the images with? If it's set to sRGB then try changing it to adobe rgb. Shooting raw It shouldn't make any difference in theory... But aperture may me picking it up and using it for some reason
Also check your MBP is using the correct screen profile for the monitor you're using. Is it using the Eizo one rather than one for the built in LCD - it may not be switching profiles when you plug/unplug the external monitor.
Posted by Tim Gregory on November 30, 2008 at 1:05 PM
Hi Nick,
Onscreen profiling has been turned off the entire time, along with quick preview - i've never bothered with it.
My camera is set to Adobe RGB.
It doesn't look like a problem with the colour space, as the slight red cast and increase in saturation seems to be the same regardless of colour space.
If I import previously processed files into Aperture, and view them they also exhibit the same problem, the moment I view them outside of Aperture, (PS, Firefox, ACR, anything) the problem no longer exists. Whatever Aperture is doing whilst I have the file open, disappears the moment its no longer in Aperture.
Posted by Tim Gregory on November 30, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Hi Nick,
To reply to your last question, my macbook has detected my Eizo through its external port, and has my calibrated ICC profile running, this runs true with the fact that Lightroom/ACR/Photoshop all work fine with no funny behaviour.
Ok - Not good news for you - seems to be a known bug, although whether it's the MacbookPro, OS X or Aperture isn't 100% clear
A bit of info here and a possible sticking plaster here
Might be worth your while digging through the Apple support forum a bit more as someone might have found an answer somewhere...
Posted by Tim Gregory on November 30, 2008 at 2:16 PM
YYYYYYYYEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
THANK YOU! - thats fixed it..
for gods christs sake in heaven, i've asked SO MANY people how to fix this, people who work for print companies, colour profile experts.. Noone has been able to help and it was that simple.. Grrrrrr.
I actually thought I had this covered, because in my display settings, I have the correct profile loaded - but in the colour sync utility - the laptop screen basic ICC was default...
Feel so stupid now, but I really have asked everyone!
Glad you're sorted. Always worth a browse on the suppliers support site
Posted by Tim Gregory on November 30, 2008 at 7:15 PM
hehe I know... I know.. trouble is, its difficult to quantify something thats bugged you for so long, until you just blast it out on a forum and someone with a fresh pair of eyes is willing to have a fresh look on it...
Really am grateful, and embarrassed as i've searched all over the place!... honest....
Discussion
12 repliesWhen I import images into lightroom, process and export as 16bit tiff to Photoshop for sharpening/etc, the colours remain exactly the same. Print matching is also about spot on with my Epson 3800, printing to well known papers with canned or provided profiles..
I do however prefer working with Aperture, but after a while I discovered that it seemed to be adding saturation and a slight red/magenta cast to all images viewed within it.
When I exported the file from Aperture to Photoshop as a tiff, the cast/saturation disappeared and the file appeared as normal. Which is fine but of course it makes adjustments in Aperture almost impossible as your working with this weird saturation/cast.
I've had my monitor ICC profile checked by people *in the know* and they say its fine, print matching from PS confirms this. Its just viewing in Aperture which is the problem.
Below is a side by side screengrab, (photoshop on left, aperture on right, both images have no adjustment)
http://www.doorslammers.co.uk/comp3.jpg
I can see the difference on any monitor regardless of whether its calibrated, you should be able to see it anywhere.
I can't find any evidence or reason why this is happening anywhere. And furthermore, I came across something else earlier which I find highly bizarre:
When I'm using full screen to apply my adjustments and check colour/etc, I sometimes use the Loupe. I discovered earlier that the image displayed within the Loupe differes from the part where the Cursor is, this is visible when both bits of the Loupe are the same diameter, and the image is being viewed at 100%, see below:
http://www.doorslammers.co.uk/argh.jpg
Why on earth is the image different in each part of the Loupe? Furthermore, the bit of the image processed by the Loupe, seems to be missing the slight cast/saturation, and reflects more how it looks in lightroom/photoshop..
Any ideas?
The only way I can reproduce your issue is to have Aperture running in Quick Preview mode (View->Quick Preview is ticked). When it runs in this mode, it uses the thumbnail image it's built or ripped from the raw file and doesn't do a full process of the raw data for display, the image may then appear in sRGB rather than the full colour space, and may appear to have colour shifts. Try turning Quick Preview off (press P to toggle it) and see if that makes a difference. When it's turned on, you also have a yellow icon appears in the pane below the image view in the windowed mode - you can click the icon to toggle quick preview on/off too.
Outside of that, the other explanation for any difference in the image you see on-screen in Aperture and the one you see in PS is that you have On-Screen Proofing enabled and that the proofing colour profile is set to something other than Adobe98 RGB or sRGB. Check View->Onscreen Proofing to see if it's ticked - if it is, then toggle it off by clicking on the menu item, or pressing Shift-Alt-P
HTH
Tried them all already a long time ago, I never use quick preview, and i've tried onscreen proofing with all manner of different colour spaces when testing for the problem. Even with AdobeRGB/sRGB or my monitor colour space, there is still a slight exaggeration in the saturation and this red cast. The saturation/cast doesn't seem to follow any particular proofing profile, any one I pick show the same problem.
Cheers for the suggestion though!
What colour profile is your camera set to tag the images with? If it's set to sRGB then try changing it to adobe rgb. Shooting raw It shouldn't make any difference in theory... But aperture may me picking it up and using it for some reason
Onscreen profiling has been turned off the entire time, along with quick preview - i've never bothered with it.
My camera is set to Adobe RGB.
It doesn't look like a problem with the colour space, as the slight red cast and increase in saturation seems to be the same regardless of colour space.
If I import previously processed files into Aperture, and view them they also exhibit the same problem, the moment I view them outside of Aperture, (PS, Firefox, ACR, anything) the problem no longer exists. Whatever Aperture is doing whilst I have the file open, disappears the moment its no longer in Aperture.
To reply to your last question, my macbook has detected my Eizo through its external port, and has my calibrated ICC profile running, this runs true with the fact that Lightroom/ACR/Photoshop all work fine with no funny behaviour.
Cheers
Tim
A bit of info here and a possible sticking plaster here
Might be worth your while digging through the Apple support forum a bit more as someone might have found an answer somewhere...
THANK YOU! - thats fixed it..
for gods christs sake in heaven, i've asked SO MANY people how to fix this, people who work for print companies, colour profile experts.. Noone has been able to help and it was that simple.. Grrrrrr.
I actually thought I had this covered, because in my display settings, I have the correct profile loaded - but in the colour sync utility - the laptop screen basic ICC was default...
Feel so stupid now, but I really have asked everyone!
Thanks so much!
Really am grateful, and embarrassed as i've searched all over the place!... honest....