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What is Lightroom doing to my RAW files?

Discussion

9 replies
Posted by Brett Deacon on December 7, 2008 at 3:12 PM
What is Lightroom doing to my RAW files?
Hi gang. I could use some help with an issue that has me stumped. I recently purchased Lightroom 2.1 to manage RAW files from my Sony a900. The problem I'm encountering is that my RAW files in Lightroom don't look like they do on my camera's LCD screen. In particular, RAW files appear more than half a stop underexposed in Lightroom, and this is verified by comparing the histograms from my camera to those in Lightroom.

When clicking on an imported RAW file in Lightroom for the first time, the preview image looks exactly as it should. Then, at some point in the loading process the image becomes dramatically darker and remains that way. I've attached an image showing how a recent processed RAW file appears in Lightroom vs. the Sony RAW image converter, which is a much closer approximation of the appearance of this image on my camera. When initially opened in Lightroom, the preview image looked like the right image, but by the time it had finished loading it looked like the image on the left.

I figured that this phenomenon must be the result of Lightroom applying some sort of filter or automatic editing process but I can't identify any such process. As far as I know, I've adjusted the default editing settings to not alter the image (e.g., linear point curve; exposure, recovery, fill light, contrast, etc. all set at 0; filters off). I assume there must be some sort of editing process I'm not aware of for this to be happening. I'd welcome any thoughts or suggestions from those of you with more Lightroom expertise than myself. Thank you in advance!
Posted by Bill Pelzmann on December 7, 2008 at 4:09 PM
Brett, if you set all the LR defaults to zero, that might be your problem.
Try leaving the defaults as set by Adobe.

Posted by Harold Ankney on December 7, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Hey Brett,, I did a little search and what I can find is that it could have something to do with DRO and the jpeg engine of Sony. Here is post on Dyxum forums talking about this concerning the A700 and Lightroom. http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38018

Harold
Posted by John Mumaw on December 7, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Those Adobe defaults that Bill refers to are camera specific profiles developed by Adobe that give you the 'best guess' visual starting point for your RAW processing workflow.

If you're interested, Adobe has created about a half dozen camera specific profiles for dozens of different cameras (incl. the Sony a900) aside from the the default profile in Lightroom. Each profile performs a different tweak as a starting point for your images....there are a couple there that I quite like, in fact.

Anyway, for more details and download info., see this page at Adobe Labs.
Well worth checking out, and the price is right. :wink:
Posted by Brett Deacon on December 7, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Thanks very much for your comments! I appreciate the suggestions. Regarding the Lightroom defaults, restoring them produces virtually identical results to my "zero" default settings. The images are just as dark. Harold, thanks for the link. It looks like the the Sony a700 has the same issue. It doesn't look like it is associated with DRO per se as it appears to happen with DRO turned off and all default Lightroom settings. My problem occurs with RAW files shot as RAW only (not RAW + jpg), so I'm not sure why DRO (which only applies to jpg's) would be an issue. It looks like I'll have to create a camera calibration profile, which I just downloaded the software for (thanks John!) but looks like a real pain in the @$$. John, I downloaded and installed the Adobe camera profiles, but when opening Lightroom there's no option to select a camera specific profile in the Camera Calibration window - just "ACR 4.6" or "Adobe Standard beta 2." Selecting the latter slightly changes the color balance but has no effect on the pronounced darkness of the image. Does Lightroom already know I've imported a900 RAW files, or am I missing something here? Lastly, it looks like the camera calibration sliders are designed to correct color, not brightness/exposure which is my real problem.

Thanks for the help, and additional thoughts would be very helpful.
Posted by John Mumaw on December 7, 2008 at 7:08 PM
That's odd.
In my Camera Calibration window (CS4-Adobe Camera Raw 5.2, not Lightroom), I have:
Adobe Standard Beta 2
Camera Faithful Beta 2
Camera Landscape Beta 2
Camera Neutral Beta 2
Camera Portrait Beta 2
Camera Standard Beta 2

You might want to try downloading them again.

I wouldn't be too concerned about brightness/exposure settings upon opening the file. Just adjust the sliders to taste, using the histogram to ensure you aren't clipping highlights and shadows. Rarely does the RAW file convert 'perfectly' with a profile only. The rest is up to you. :wink:

BTW, pressing the 'Alt' key while adjusting the sliders will show you if you're clipping any data.
Posted by Grant Collier on December 7, 2008 at 10:00 PM
You shouldn't expect the image from your Sony viewfinder and Adobe RAW files to initially look the same. You can't actually view a RAW file. It is just raw data and must be converted to an image. So Sony and Adobe will use different methods to convert the data to an image - with Sony, the image will generally look better at first as it's trying to optimize the image, whereas with Lightroom with defaults set at 0, it is not attempting to optimize the image. What matters, though, isn't what the image looks like in Lightroom right away but how it looks once you've adjusted the sliders. If you want a better starting point, you can click "Auto" in the tone section or you can use the defaults that John mentioned.
Posted by Jack Garrett on December 8, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Well, I have a different problem. When I print in photoshop, thei image looks like it should and when I print from lightroom, it isnt even close...whats up with that?

Jack
Posted by Nat Coalson on December 8, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Every raw converter needs to render the raw files to produce a preview in the software. All raw converters use different algorithms to produce their baseline rendering.

Lightroom's rendering of raw files from many cameras is less than ideal. In fact, regardless of the camera you use, it's possible (even likely) that Lightroom's default rendering settings won't produce the best results. The raw converter provided by your camera mfg. is more likely to produce better results "out of the box".

However this is easily remedied. Process one or several appropriate sample images in Lightroom, applying the settings the way you wan, to make the photo look its best. Then save a Develop preset and/or a new Lightroom Default. You'll be able to establish your own, ideal, default rendering for your images.

Using DNG Profiles is key to success here. DNG Profiles are a huge advance in raw workflow but unfortunately they haven't gotten enough attention from the photo community.

Install the latest ACR 5.2 and DNG Converter packages from Adobe and you will get the full public release of the DNG Profiles (you can then remove the beta versions if you like.)

Note that ACR 5.2 only works with CS4; the profiles are installed with DNG Converter so if you don't have CS4 just do that.

Though you select DNG Profiles in LRs Camera Calibration panel, using the profiles makes the old procedure for settings in that panel obsolete. When using DNG Profiles, plan to leave the calibration sliders zeroed.

Re: printing - Lightroom and Photoshop should produce identical results when the exact same settings are used. However, there have been bugs reported between LR and some printer drivers that adversely affect printing; Google to see if your printer model is one of these. Make sure you're not double-color managing and that you are using the correct profiles.
Posted by Brett Deacon on December 8, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Thanks Nat! I can't wait to check out ACR 5.2 and its profiles when I get home tonight.