Posted by David Prichard on December 27, 2008 at 3:21 PM
While he wasn't shooting in a nature environment, this example serves to show just how over zealous minor officials seem to have become in regards to photographers.
I had a similar experience last winter, photographing a charter train on contract to the people who had chartered it. State troopers and railroad security personnel paid me a visit as I was shooting, divided between curiosity at my highway antics leapfrogging ahead of the train to preselected shooting locations and suspicious of my motives. Fortunately for me "the word" of my work had filtered fairly far down the railroad hierarchy and ten minutes of radio chatter confirmed my role. I suspect that if the word had stopped even one level higher up the tier, I could have ended up in handcuffs while missing my contract obligations.
I'm willing to bet that the next time Mr. Kerzic shoots for the contest, he'll have a copy of the contest rules in his pocket along with his entrance application. I can guarantee that next time I'm shooting trains, I'll be carrying a copy of the contract and the phone # of my RR contact.
Posted by Adam Schallau on December 27, 2008 at 5:53 PM
I always keep a copy of this with me: The Photographer's Right. Luckily, I haven't had to present it to anyone, yet.
Posted by Richard Hahn on December 27, 2008 at 10:12 PM
The attitude of the railroads goes way back in history to the Pinkertons. The railroads created their own army of policemen who were protected by the political establishment as the railways were at each others throats in claiming territory (right of way) and also in fighting against unions.
About 12 years ago I was going down the highways and saw a train that derailed. I had my camera with me and no sooner then I stopped to grab a photo of the derailment a big SUV pulled up and a giant of a man stepped out and told me I wasn't to take any pictures. So much for freedom.
9 - 11 didn't help at all.
Posted by Wayne Rhodus on December 28, 2008 at 6:40 PM
I too had an interesting encounter with a fine railroad security agent. A few years back, after a beautiful 12" snow in Kansas City, I downed my finest winter parka and photo backpack focused on making images in an urban streamside park. After about 3 hours in my winter playground I was moving toward another location to shoot some intimate ice patterns when a train passed nearby.
I must have been a suspicious sort (with my tripod slung over my shoulder and a backpack full of who knows what) and too close to their track because when I finally arrived back at my car there was a "nice" gentleman who pulled behind my vehicle blocking me in to ensure he had ample time to question me on my wanderings while throwing his weight around.
Not to say I wasn't a bit pived about the incident but I kind of feel like I had the last laugh ... he must have sat there waiting for me to arrive back at my car for at least two hours on that Sunday!
Posted by Kent Staubus on December 29, 2008 at 11:05 AM
I photo trains almost every day and rarely have any trouble. Of course, I'm out in rural areas where sometimes the train crews even invite me into the cab to warm up if they are stopped at a siding. I have had some run-ins in bigger cities, but it's usually low level security guard types. I always immediately ask them to phone their supervisor to come out and talk. If they are private security or other non-official police types I pull out my cell phone and tell them I'm calling the sherriff to come sort it out. I've always been left alone at that point.
There were two incidents over the years that stand out from the others. There was once a major derailment about half an hour from my house which scattered hopper cars all over a pasture. The railroad had Hulcher out cleaning it up and everything. I talked to the owner of the property and got written permission to be on his land and take photos. So, I did. Sure enough a guy from the regional office came over and tried to intimidate me. I showed him the written permission and offered to call the owner on my cell phone. I also asked him if he had bothered to get permission--after all he was on private property. I was left alone. Another time I was taking some photos of another derailment near Omaha. I had my teenage son sitting in my truck about 120 yards away. A private security guard came up, tried to get me to leave, and then attempted to grab my camera. I told him that was a bad move. I nodded towards my son sitting in the truck and said, "I told my kid this is a bad neighborhood, and someone might try to rob me. There's a loaded .30-06 in the cab, and he's a decent shot. It would not be wise for you to grab my camera or rough me up." The guy left pretty quickly. He knew he was outgunned on that one. Really though, I rarely have trouble. You can get into trouble if you wander onto actual railroad property, so I am careful about doing that in the more urban areas. I did have one notable incident in a rural area. I was up at dawn taking photos from a public road of the Kate Shelley Bridge in the middle of Iowa. An old geezer in a white truck pulled up and told me I couldn't do that. My response was something like, "Bite me." He got out to yell at me, saying he was a security guard for the railroad. He wanted to see my ID. I told him I'd show him my ID if he'd show me his weener. Or something. He then pulls a Mini-14 GB out of the truck and started waving it around yelling, "I have an automatic rifle!" At that point I called the sherriff. Sherriff came out, talked to him privately, and they both drove away. The next day I had my brother, a Dallas attorney, call the railroad's legal dept. for a chat. Never saw the geezer again. Never had any more problems at the Kate Shelley Bridge either.
Posted by Steve Foss on December 29, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Kent, I was waiting for you to see this thread. Figured you'd have some good stories.
Posted by Andy Richards on January 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM
Kent: Your stories always make me laugh. When I decide to get into serious railroad photography, I want you to be my guide! However, I do worry that I will have to either bail you out of federal prison or attend your funeral one day <G>
Discussion
10 replieshttp://carlosmiller.com/2008/12/27/amtrak-police-arrest-photographer-participating-in-amtrak-photo-contest/
Guy
I'm willing to bet that the next time Mr. Kerzic shoots for the contest, he'll have a copy of the contest rules in his pocket along with his entrance application. I can guarantee that next time I'm shooting trains, I'll be carrying a copy of the contract and the phone # of my RR contact.
About 12 years ago I was going down the highways and saw a train that derailed. I had my camera with me and no sooner then I stopped to grab a photo of the derailment a big SUV pulled up and a giant of a man stepped out and told me I wasn't to take any pictures. So much for freedom.
9 - 11 didn't help at all.
I must have been a suspicious sort (with my tripod slung over my shoulder and a backpack full of who knows what) and too close to their track because when I finally arrived back at my car there was a "nice" gentleman who pulled behind my vehicle blocking me in to ensure he had ample time to question me on my wanderings while throwing his weight around.
Not to say I wasn't a bit pived about the incident but I kind of feel like I had the last laugh ... he must have sat there waiting for me to arrive back at my car for at least two hours on that Sunday!
There were two incidents over the years that stand out from the others. There was once a major derailment about half an hour from my house which scattered hopper cars all over a pasture. The railroad had Hulcher out cleaning it up and everything. I talked to the owner of the property and got written permission to be on his land and take photos. So, I did. Sure enough a guy from the regional office came over and tried to intimidate me. I showed him the written permission and offered to call the owner on my cell phone. I also asked him if he had bothered to get permission--after all he was on private property. I was left alone. Another time I was taking some photos of another derailment near Omaha. I had my teenage son sitting in my truck about 120 yards away. A private security guard came up, tried to get me to leave, and then attempted to grab my camera. I told him that was a bad move. I nodded towards my son sitting in the truck and said, "I told my kid this is a bad neighborhood, and someone might try to rob me. There's a loaded .30-06 in the cab, and he's a decent shot. It would not be wise for you to grab my camera or rough me up." The guy left pretty quickly.
Kent in SD