Posted by Ben Musgrove on January 2, 2009 at 3:49 AM
Hi All,
At the moment I currently keep all the RAW files I have taken and back these up to an external hard drive. I then go through these and mark which are sharp, then which are compositionally the better images, then work on the ones that pass these stages and finally end up with the few best images. This however takes up a lot of space on my hard drives and means there are lots of files to sort through.
In 2009 I want to streamline my post capture work and wondered what other people do.
I have learn't in my previous post that I am now going to conver my RAW files to DNG format. The thing I would like to find out is whether people delete all their rejected images? Do you delete just the unsharp images? Maybe you delete all but the final images?
I would be gratful for any advice you would have or how you tackle your post capture work.
I rogue the obvious low quality and duplicates before downloading from the card and have kept the sharp + compositionally correct images. I have found over the past several years, especially as Photoshop has improved, that it is worthwhile just to go back through the unpublished images and give them a second look.
Posted by Toni Lankerd on January 2, 2009 at 9:50 AM
Ben, I usually go through my RAW files 2-3 times and delete the images that aren't 100%. First time is a quick run through, deleting obviously "unfit" images....out of focus, lighting, composition, etc. Then while processing and converting to TIFF, I get real picky and delete even more. No sense in piling up unnecessary files!
I kinda go "the other direction." Instead of removing the dinks from an original folder, I COPY the keepers to a file of their own while preserving the original set for a year or two. That way I've got originals in case I mess up really badly somewhere along the way, such as forgetting to select the correct file format when doing a Save As. About once a year I go back and review the orginal folders a final time to copy any additions to the right keeper folders, then I dump the original set.
One of my big reasons for doing that is a matter of context. By that I mean, sometimes unique features, new techniques, or some other change rather than mere sharpness/exposure considerations can turn an image into a keeper months or years later. I'm reminded of the natural arch on the island in front of our house. It collapsed. Suddenly I wish I had kept more versions, and one in particular in special light but slightly soft. I know using current techniques I could "rescue" it.
I'm real liberal in what lands in my "keeper" files. Not all are perfect. I should point out that as I process images from the "keeper" file, I save the results into a separate processed file. The point is to have at least three copies of an image in separate locations, only dropping to two after due time for consideration.
Actually that's not true. Portable hard drives have become so cheap, in the last year I've started using them for additional backup copies of my keepers and processed image files to a location separate from home. If I recall correctly, I just paid $139 for Western Digital 500GB portables at Costco. If my math is right, that's cheaper than DVDs or CDs. Best of all they're tiny- no bigger really than a deck of cards- and they fit nicely into our safety deposit box. Above the tsunami line.
Posted by Paul Inglis on January 2, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Hi Ben,
Your workflow will start at the time you press the shutter. I don't believe there is a right or wrong workflow but it must be something that you find easy to do and maintain. If it becomes a chore then you'll start neglecting it and end in a hole very quickly.
When I first started photography many moons ago I kept everything just in case. As you have found out the images just keep on growing until in the end it's impossible to find that specific image. The advert of digital has made this worse as we now take more images since the cost is minimal compared to film that is.
A good workflow is worth its weight in gold. I'll explain my basic workflow that has keep me in on top of my images for a few years now. Just remember this works for me and others have their own ways of doing things.
1. In the field I have quite a few Sandisk Extreme III CF 4GB cards that are kept in Gepe Extreme Cases that protect them from the elements. As I fill a card it is downloaded onto two of my Epson P-5000's. I don't delete the cards, which allow me to have three copies while in the field.
2. When I return to the office I download one of the P-5000's onto my computer but still don't delete the Epson yet. I now have four copies of my images.
3. I am a Nikon shooter and use a program call ViewNX which allows me very quick to view the thumbnails on monitor 1 and a full screen copy of a selected thumbnail on monitor 2. The software also shows me the focus point on a given image.
4. Using ViewNX I complete my first cull of poor images. Any out of focus, missed focused, blurry and any other obviously poor images are deleted forever. This is done at high speed.
5. Next I load the remaining images into Lightroom v2 where I'll view the images again but this time I pay more attention the minor details. Often I have images that are almost identical looking (I call them similars). With Lightroom I can compare two images side by side. This allows me to delete the poorer one of the two. By doing this allows me to keep only the very best images from the shoot.
6. I then rename, keyword at this point and catalogue the images.
7. This is where I'll now back-up these images onto 3 external hard drives. A note on the hard drives. I use either Seagate or Maxtors (my personal preference). I bought a slightly different model from three different suppliers. This eliminates the possibility of having all three drives crashing simultaneously (which can happen if you buy the same drives from the same batch).
8. Once all backed up I then delete and format the cards along with deleting the P-5000's ready for the next outing.
9. Now the processing of the images can begin in Lightroom then Photoshop.
I have been shooting for many years and have roughly 100,000 images on file but have deleted millions.
Your workflow is very thorough. The only thing I do that you don't is, when out of town, I cut a DVD of each card and mail it to myself. Paranoid, eh?
My question is, do all of you who move files to external drives then do your PS work from the files on the external drives (slower), or do you work from copies on the hard drive (faster)? No matter how big my hard drives, eventually they fill up, especially with multi-layer PS files that exceed 200 megs each. So most of my photos reside on externals, which I find slow me down a lot.
"Your workflow is very thorough. The only thing I do that you don't is, when out of town, I cut a DVD of each card and mail it to myself. Paranoid, eh?
My question is, do all of you who move files to external drives then do your PS work from the files on the external drives (slower), or do you work from copies on the hard drive (faster)? No matter how big my hard drives, eventually they fill up, especially with multi-layer PS files that exceed 200 megs each. So most of my photos reside on externals, which I find slow me down a lot."
No paranoia at all, when you realize the Forces of Evil are out to get you! We do the same thing, along with copying to the portable drives AND keeping a copy on our laptop. I've related the story before of a friend in the days of film who returned to Rio after a couple of months along the Amazon on assignment for a major mag. He was so worried about the 200 rolls of film, he carried it with him leaving the hotel to find a dinner on his overnight stop. And a couple of guys on a motorcycle slashed the strap on his shoulder bag to rip off his cameras along with the film. Long and short, in addition to losing the cameras and film, he lost the assignment. Go ahead and tell me how much more "secure" film is than digital.
We use the portable drives for backup only. We drag files onto the desktop of our Macs (a copying process) for processing, then drag the finished files off to backups. We may keep the worked files on the computer for a few months, but sooner or later they wander off to live on the backups.
Posted by John Klotz on January 2, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Great topic! I am somwhere between Paul and Hank. As stated in the film days the cost of film and processing taught us to be selective about pushing the shutter - still a good habit to practice. With digital it is too easy to go hogwildI have more elk than I know what to do with In the field, I am still very selective. Yes digital is cheap to shoot everything you see. However I have now filled up 260 gb of hard disk space and am faced with having to make tough decisions. In the field I use an 80gb Picture Porter to download my cards to. I carry 16 gb of cards that will last a week of hard shooting. I now have two copies. I don't delete the cards until I get home. I upload the cards to my computer (I now have three copies) and as I review them I trash the obvious loosers, oof, technically poor comps etc. Being a dyed in wool pack rat I back up the all the Porter images to my PC and compress and burn them to DVD "just in case".. yeah I am incurable! Now I delete the images on the Porter. I am using PSE5 but plan on switchhing to Lightroom 2 and CS4 soon. I do all my processing on the PC and anyhing that gets to "final" processing and printed is backed up in its completed state to DVD+RW. I will soon be getting a Drobo since I feel like I am living on the edge backup wise.
Posted by Paul Inglis on January 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Hi guys,
I do in fact leave an additional copy on my d drive while I edit (not my c drive which I use for programs and utilities).
As an addition to my mentioned workflow I do back everything up to the Delkin BD Archival Disks that hold 25GB per disk! This however is done at the end of the editing process and contains a copy of the original .nef, a converted .dng, a 16-bit .tiff, an 8-bit .tiff plus a high Res .jpeg and a Low Res .jpeg.
What's paranoia?
I didn't mention this earlier as I deemed it to be a little OTT! Obviously I'm not alone!
John, with reference to the Drobo. I am setting up three 16TB and are deemed very good value for money and excellent performance. Make sure you purchase a slightly different drive from different suppliers and manufacturers. By doing so you can ensure only one goes at any one time!!!
Discussion
8 repliesAt the moment I currently keep all the RAW files I have taken and back these up to an external hard drive. I then go through these and mark which are sharp, then which are compositionally the better images, then work on the ones that pass these stages and finally end up with the few best images. This however takes up a lot of space on my hard drives and means there are lots of files to sort through.
In 2009 I want to streamline my post capture work and wondered what other people do.
I have learn't in my previous post that I am now going to conver my RAW files to DNG format. The thing I would like to find out is whether people delete all their rejected images? Do you delete just the unsharp images? Maybe you delete all but the final images?
I would be gratful for any advice you would have or how you tackle your post capture work.
One of my big reasons for doing that is a matter of context. By that I mean, sometimes unique features, new techniques, or some other change rather than mere sharpness/exposure considerations can turn an image into a keeper months or years later. I'm reminded of the natural arch on the island in front of our house. It collapsed. Suddenly I wish I had kept more versions, and one in particular in special light but slightly soft. I know using current techniques I could "rescue" it.
I'm real liberal in what lands in my "keeper" files. Not all are perfect. I should point out that as I process images from the "keeper" file, I save the results into a separate processed file. The point is to have at least three copies of an image in separate locations, only dropping to two after due time for consideration.
Actually that's not true. Portable hard drives have become so cheap, in the last year I've started using them for additional backup copies of my keepers and processed image files to a location separate from home. If I recall correctly, I just paid $139 for Western Digital 500GB portables at Costco. If my math is right, that's cheaper than DVDs or CDs. Best of all they're tiny- no bigger really than a deck of cards- and they fit nicely into our safety deposit box. Above the tsunami line.
Your workflow will start at the time you press the shutter. I don't believe there is a right or wrong workflow but it must be something that you find easy to do and maintain. If it becomes a chore then you'll start neglecting it and end in a hole very quickly.
When I first started photography many moons ago I kept everything just in case. As you have found out the images just keep on growing until in the end it's impossible to find that specific image. The advert of digital has made this worse as we now take more images since the cost is minimal compared to film that is.
A good workflow is worth its weight in gold. I'll explain my basic workflow that has keep me in on top of my images for a few years now. Just remember this works for me and others have their own ways of doing things.
1. In the field I have quite a few Sandisk Extreme III CF 4GB cards that are kept in Gepe Extreme Cases that protect them from the elements. As I fill a card it is downloaded onto two of my Epson P-5000's. I don't delete the cards, which allow me to have three copies while in the field.
2. When I return to the office I download one of the P-5000's onto my computer but still don't delete the Epson yet. I now have four copies of my images.
3. I am a Nikon shooter and use a program call ViewNX which allows me very quick to view the thumbnails on monitor 1 and a full screen copy of a selected thumbnail on monitor 2. The software also shows me the focus point on a given image.
4. Using ViewNX I complete my first cull of poor images. Any out of focus, missed focused, blurry and any other obviously poor images are deleted forever. This is done at high speed.
5. Next I load the remaining images into Lightroom v2 where I'll view the images again but this time I pay more attention the minor details. Often I have images that are almost identical looking (I call them similars). With Lightroom I can compare two images side by side. This allows me to delete the poorer one of the two. By doing this allows me to keep only the very best images from the shoot.
6. I then rename, keyword at this point and catalogue the images.
7. This is where I'll now back-up these images onto 3 external hard drives. A note on the hard drives. I use either Seagate or Maxtors (my personal preference). I bought a slightly different model from three different suppliers. This eliminates the possibility of having all three drives crashing simultaneously (which can happen if you buy the same drives from the same batch).
8. Once all backed up I then delete and format the cards along with deleting the P-5000's ready for the next outing.
9. Now the processing of the images can begin in Lightroom then Photoshop.
I have been shooting for many years and have roughly 100,000 images on file but have deleted millions.
Hope this helps a little!
Your workflow is very thorough. The only thing I do that you don't is, when out of town, I cut a DVD of each card and mail it to myself. Paranoid, eh?
My question is, do all of you who move files to external drives then do your PS work from the files on the external drives (slower), or do you work from copies on the hard drive (faster)? No matter how big my hard drives, eventually they fill up, especially with multi-layer PS files that exceed 200 megs each. So most of my photos reside on externals, which I find slow me down a lot.
My question is, do all of you who move files to external drives then do your PS work from the files on the external drives (slower), or do you work from copies on the hard drive (faster)? No matter how big my hard drives, eventually they fill up, especially with multi-layer PS files that exceed 200 megs each. So most of my photos reside on externals, which I find slow me down a lot."
No paranoia at all, when you realize the Forces of Evil are out to get you!
We use the portable drives for backup only. We drag files onto the desktop of our Macs (a copying process) for processing, then drag the finished files off to backups. We may keep the worked files on the computer for a few months, but sooner or later they wander off to live on the backups.
I do in fact leave an additional copy on my d drive while I edit (not my c drive which I use for programs and utilities).
As an addition to my mentioned workflow I do back everything up to the Delkin BD Archival Disks that hold 25GB per disk! This however is done at the end of the editing process and contains a copy of the original .nef, a converted .dng, a 16-bit .tiff, an 8-bit .tiff plus a high Res .jpeg and a Low Res .jpeg.
What's paranoia?
I didn't mention this earlier as I deemed it to be a little OTT!
John, with reference to the Drobo. I am setting up three 16TB and are deemed very good value for money and excellent performance. Make sure you purchase a slightly different drive from different suppliers and manufacturers. By doing so you can ensure only one goes at any one time!!!