Please don’t take offence, but I’m sorry but this doesn’t quite gel with me.
The Hawfinch itself i cracking, bit the Silver Birch doesn’t look quite right.
I might be wrong but the Silver Birch looks to be in prime condition, and part a trunk which is lying down. This together with the moss, just doesn’t look right, at least for this species.
Posted by Graham Brown on January 11, 2009 at 4:19 PM
You're probably right about this Ray but i found this section of tree lying near a feeding station. I think someone else had taken it there as a prop.
Posted by John Robinson on January 11, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Yes there's something odd about this shot.Pity because they're not easy yo get.
There seems to be something wrong around where the feet are on the bark
JR
Get a bucket, stick the Silver Birch in it and wedge it in vertically, now it might be too low, so stick the bucket on a milk crate(s) or another inverted bucket, place near your single feeder. In your minds eye think of a Nuthatch or Woodpecker being on it. Get the idea.
For the Hawfinch, finches and tits in general, drill a hole in the Silver Birch, and wedge into it a suitable branch.
As the "perch/trunk is in a bucket, you can move it around untill you get the birds landing on it as you want. Don't forget to change the perches, fairly frequently.
Just a few thoughts
Posted by John Robinson on January 11, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Interesting advice above but I wouldn't recommend it in front of a public hide !
- where I suspect the shot was taken from.
JR
All Graham has to do, is think outside of the box. He is 90% there, he has the site and the bird(s), all he has to do is think how to get the images he wants. All I did was suggest a few possibilities.
Where there is a will, there is invariably a way, you just have to think of it.
Posted by John Robinson on January 11, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Ray
He cannot do what you suggest in front of a public hide ! Running around with buckets in front of such a hide does tend to upset the odd birdwatcher ! All hide users are not photographers.
JR
You wrote “I found this section of tree lying near a feeding station. I think someone else had taken it there as a prop”. Contact me on 2ray@f2s.com as I have another suggest which is potentially less intrusive, if it is as John said, a public hide.
Posted by Vincent Jones on January 11, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Come on folks
I think the critique & the advice in the first instance was good enough, don't you. These I agree with too but still a reasonable shot though of a bird that is very difficult to photograph.
Hey Graham, keep em coming
Vince
Posted by Graham Brown on January 11, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Thanks for your comments and i apologise if i have given offense at using a prop i found. At my time of life i do photography as a retirement hobby and do not need any sarcasm or aggrevation so i will not be posting again. Graham
Posted by Vincent Jones on January 11, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Graham, don't get like that. Its great to see what your posting.
For critique, take it with a pinch of salt. Sometimes a lot can be learnt but this must be done at your own pace & not at others.
The decision you are making about not posting is your own but don't feel like you are getting pushed to what could be the wrong decision for which I think this will be.
Please ride above it & enjoy your photography & the forum, plus any critique that is chucked at you, positive or negitive Always good to turn a negitive to a positive in my eyes.
This is a great forum & you will learn loads more I promise you, what you read above is not a normal approach other posters take.
Smile & stick that chin up
Look forward to the next post, yes the next post
Can some of the above comments including mine be removed to allow this image to be properly commented on, just an idea to keep it focused on the image
Posted by John Robinson on January 11, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Graham
I thought I was just trying to advise on what can be done in front of a public hide.There have been a lot of cases of photographers upsetting birdwatchers by running around sticking perches up etc. Ray's advice was fine for a private site and we all do that sort of "perch" and prop inventing.
As for the critique- it is that sort of a forum, and as Vincent says don't take it too much too heart. If we all did there would be no one posting!
I certainly wouldn't stop putting stuff up.
Cheers
JohnR
Posted by eric weight on January 12, 2009 at 1:00 AM
I hope you're still there Graham. I just want to say that getting a shot - any shot- of a hawfinch is a triumph. As you say you were struggling with the light, it just adds to your achievement. Type hawfinch into the search box and see just how few people on here have managed one at all worth putting up and it will give you some idea of how well you have done. Stick with it, and filter the comments for useful info that will help you enjoy your photography like the rest of us do. Hope to see you post again. eric
Posted by Mike Smith on January 12, 2009 at 2:48 AM
As far as I am aware Hawfinch are ground feeding birds, at least every time I have seen a winter flock Hawfinch feeding it is in the leaf litter searching for seeds.
Probably the reason why it is so rarely photographed is that they do not come to standard set up feeding stations but require a certain tree species to feed - mainly hornbeam - the props being suggested are unlikely to work. You have to set out to photograph a hawfinch feeding, it will not come to your feeding station
As Eric says any shot of a Hawfinch is a triumph, they are now very localised unobtrusive birds
Great photo of a little seen species. The eye level viewpoint is excellent
Posted by Matt Cole on January 12, 2009 at 6:37 AM
an excellent shot and a real achievement. The perch may not be perfect but I've seen worse
Matt
Posted by Rob Fisher on January 12, 2009 at 6:59 AM
Graham,
Excellent shot, of a tricky subject. Like the clean background, and great detail in the feathers.
Hope you keep on posting
Rob
Posted by Ben Simmonds on January 12, 2009 at 7:25 AM
Well done on this capture, these are quite rare and i for one have never seen one, it is difficult for the more experienced photographers to comment sometimes as it must be frustrating when giving advice on how to improve the picture and not cause offence but everybody has an opinion and i think it is a good idea to recieve harsh critisism, it has definitely helped me.
I agree generally about the image, the subject seems fine, apart from it's left foot perhaps looks overly red, but I'm sure we can't help that !
Drew
Posted by Anthony House on January 12, 2009 at 8:11 AM
Looks to be cut out and pasted on to me.............
Posted by Danny Green on January 12, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Posted by Ian Mason on January 12, 2009 at 11:37 AM
When I saw the heading "hawfinch" and the number of comments, I expected something special and I am not disappointed. I have never seen one and know nothing of their behaviour. I think this is a superb image. You shouldn't feel upset about the discussion - sometimes people debate all sorts of issues surrounding the posted image and I don't think it does any real harm. In fact, it has been educational for me and no doubt others. I hope you keep posting - by chance, I looked though your website recently and we would all be losers if you stopped.
BTW - I doubt if I would ever be confident enough to say publicly that an image looks cut out and pasted without some sort of qualification/justification.
Posted by F.DESMETTE on January 12, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Hello
Sorry but for me The feets look like they have been cloned. They should be as sharp as the rest of the picture. the back of the tree is sharp, the bird is sharp I do not understand why the feets are soft,blurred?? Both feets are different colours....what`s right with this picture I do not know.
Danny why did you removed your thread you are not allowed to removed thread!
Frederic
Posted by Dave Tucker on January 12, 2009 at 12:08 PM
HI I would love to see a Hawfinch, I struggle with this image, I think the feet look a little odd. Graham, have you over shapened?
Dave
Posted by Craig Nash on January 12, 2009 at 12:21 PM
I see the photo from your smugmug gallery was taken in April last year iso 200 f8 1/200 focal length 800mm so you must have had a 2x converter on your 100-400. I prefer the image of the bird on the ground.
I would suggest you all look at photo on Graham's smugmug site and then look at it at full resolution it doesnt look to me like cloned feet. I think the dof was very narrow and is only really focused on the nearside of the bird which is why the log and feet dont look sharp.
Posted by Graham Goddard on January 12, 2009 at 12:22 PM
............I don't think Graham will be posting again based on his last comment.....
Everybody in life is allowed an opinion and UKNP is here for opinions that contain constructive critique.
As said numerous times before, by in large people on here are strangers to one another and ones opinion of another is formed not only by what is written but also by how it is written.
Some of the above opinion is unconstructive. I would take from the above what helps and ignore chaff.
I hope to see you post again and apoligies for getting to this thread later than I would have liked.
Discussion
28 repliesCanon 40D,Canon 100-400mm, 1/80th sec at f5.6 and ISO400
The Hawfinch itself i cracking, bit the Silver Birch doesn’t look quite right.
I might be wrong but the Silver Birch looks to be in prime condition, and part a trunk which is lying down. This together with the moss, just doesn’t look right, at least for this species.
There seems to be something wrong around where the feet are on the bark
JR
Get a bucket, stick the Silver Birch in it and wedge it in vertically, now it might be too low, so stick the bucket on a milk crate(s) or another inverted bucket, place near your single feeder. In your minds eye think of a Nuthatch or Woodpecker being on it. Get the idea.
For the Hawfinch, finches and tits in general, drill a hole in the Silver Birch, and wedge into it a suitable branch.
As the "perch/trunk is in a bucket, you can move it around untill you get the birds landing on it as you want. Don't forget to change the perches, fairly frequently.
Just a few thoughts
- where I suspect the shot was taken from.
JR
You missed the point.
All Graham has to do, is think outside of the box. He is 90% there, he has the site and the bird(s), all he has to do is think how to get the images he wants. All I did was suggest a few possibilities.
Where there is a will, there is invariably a way, you just have to think of it.
He cannot do what you suggest in front of a public hide !
JR
What ever.
Graham
You wrote “I found this section of tree lying near a feeding station. I think someone else had taken it there as a prop”. Contact me on 2ray@f2s.com as I have another suggest which is potentially less intrusive, if it is as John said, a public hide.
I think the critique & the advice in the first instance was good enough, don't you. These I agree with too but still a reasonable shot though of a bird that is very difficult to photograph.
Hey Graham, keep em coming
Vince
For critique, take it with a pinch of salt. Sometimes a lot can be learnt but this must be done at your own pace & not at others.
The decision you are making about not posting is your own but don't feel like you are getting pushed to what could be the wrong decision for which I think this will be.
Please ride above it & enjoy your photography & the forum, plus any critique that is chucked at you, positive or negitive
This is a great forum & you will learn loads more I promise you, what you read above is not a normal approach other posters take.
Smile & stick that chin up
Look forward to the next post, yes the next post
Can some of the above comments including mine be removed to allow this image to be properly commented on, just an idea to keep it focused on the image
I thought I was just trying to advise on what can be done in front of a public hide.There have been a lot of cases of photographers upsetting birdwatchers by running around sticking perches up etc. Ray's advice was fine for a private site and we all do that sort of "perch" and prop inventing.
As for the critique- it is that sort of a forum, and as Vincent says don't take it too much too heart. If we all did there would be no one posting!
I certainly wouldn't stop putting stuff up.
Cheers
JohnR
Probably the reason why it is so rarely photographed is that they do not come to standard set up feeding stations but require a certain tree species to feed - mainly hornbeam - the props being suggested are unlikely to work. You have to set out to photograph a hawfinch feeding, it will not come to your feeding station
As Eric says any shot of a Hawfinch is a triumph, they are now very localised unobtrusive birds
Matt
Excellent shot, of a tricky subject. Like the clean background, and great detail in the feathers.
Hope you keep on posting
Rob
Drew
BTW - I doubt if I would ever be confident enough to say publicly that an image looks cut out and pasted without some sort of qualification/justification.
Sorry but for me The feets look like they have been cloned. They should be as sharp as the rest of the picture. the back of the tree is sharp, the bird is sharp I do not understand why the feets are soft,blurred?? Both feets are different colours....what`s right with this picture I do not know.
Danny why did you removed your thread
Frederic
Dave
I would suggest you all look at photo on Graham's smugmug site and then look at it at full resolution it doesnt look to me like cloned feet. I think the dof was very narrow and is only really focused on the nearside of the bird which is why the log and feet dont look sharp.
I would urge you to keep posting.
Everybody in life is allowed an opinion and UKNP is here for opinions that contain constructive critique.
As said numerous times before, by in large people on here are strangers to one another and ones opinion of another is formed not only by what is written but also by how it is written.
Some of the above opinion is unconstructive. I would take from the above what helps and ignore chaff.
I hope to see you post again and apoligies for getting to this thread later than I would have liked.
T
This topic is locked.