A question about color

I noticed something odd from my RAW files that i shot up in RMNP the other day. Here's two of the files; i didnt do a thing to these, other than use a color temp of 7000K, convert to jpeg and crop for the comparison view here. The first was shot five minutes before the second, 4 sec at f/18, the second was 2 sec at f/16. I dont understand why the color is so different, i believe the first shot is more accurate to the actual scene, and as you can see the clouds are red in the first, more orange in the second. The snow is more subtle but there is obviously more cyan in the second. Anyone know what causes these differences? I dont think the light changed that much in 5 minutes.

I dont think the light changed that much in 5 minutes.

To my eyes, it appears that it has. In five minutes, the sun rises and changes azimuth by one degree, which is relatively substantial at that time of day.
The visible cloud patterns here have moved quite a bit, so we can safely assume that the cloud patterns partially obscuring the unseen sun have moved, as well.
You mentioned using a custom white balance that morning, which is fine for that particular moment in time. Five minutes later, who knows? A custom white balance really only works well in a consistent lighting situation.

Taken all together, I believe that this explains the very slight discrepancies that I see here, IMO.

What are you doing up so early (late) anyway??

I should have been more clear--these were shot in Auto WB, then in RAW i set them equal to 7K, assuming this would correct any difference that might have occurred as a result of auto giving a different reading for the two shots. Is that a correct assumption?
I agree the light probably did change--i just dont remember the color changing like that, and i think i would because i was very careful to pay attention to the colors at the time.
As for being up early--it certainly aint by choice!

I think John nailed it.

And Stan, I like the shots.

Is that a correct assumption?

Doesn't seem to be the case here. That extra five minutes seems to be the culprit. In that time, the ambient color temp. may have changed enough so that the exact same setting (7000K) in ACR/Lightroom would have displayed a slight discrepancy.
I wonder what would happen were you to use the White Balance correction tool in ACR/Lightroom or the grey eyedropper in PS in the same area of both images.

If you converted using ACR or LR, the "Tint" setting may be different between the two, even if the color temp is the same. Other converters have similar controls for hue.

Guy

I agree with John, the light probably did change quite a bit in five minutes, especially with moving clouds. The other factor that would contribute to a slight color difference is the length of the exposures. You'll get a little more saturation, which may exaggerate a color shift, with the longer exposure.

Still the shift from red to orange looks right as the sun rises. Also, if you had blue sky overhead, I wouldn't be surprised with a little cyan on the snow as the sky lightens. The shadow midground looks consistent between the shots.

I don't think setting the color temperature/white balance the same in two shots necessarily makes an equal comparison, especially if the light is changing. To make sure the white balance is correct for each shot, I would pick the same nuetral object in both frames and set the white balance off of that. The change would probably be a little cooler shift that would lessen the orange saturation and reduce the stark difference between the shots. I'd set my white balance off of the snowy trees in the lower right third of the frame.

Beautiful sunrise (again) BTW!

My first thought was that the color saturations were enhanced with the longer exposure, but I don't know if an additional 2 seconds alone would make that much difference. So, I'd go with the light changing in the 5 minutes as the primary cause.

Five minutes is not a long time if we're talking about noon to 12:05pm. But from sunrise to sunrise +5, there's a substantial difference. I attribute the difference in these images to that.

You say you didn’t notice much color change. That is understandable. It is generally a dark scene and we do not perceive color well when it is dark. Shoot in the slot canyons and you will notice this. What your camera yields is much closer to reality than what your eyes see. True, the area of color is bright in your images, but most of the scene is dark and I think this is what influenced your perception.

I’m still wondering why you changed the color temperature to 7000? Was this to warm the scene and enhance to reds of the sunrise?

I agree, 5 minutes at sunrise(set) is a big difference. I've seen colors go from red to non-existant in less time than that, especially considering the narrow slot the sun was shining through. Also, like John mentioned, look at the cloud structure in each pic, they are markedly different proving that something moved a lot, either the sun, or the clouds, but more likely both which creates an even faster change.

I vote for the difference in time....five minutes is huge at sunrise/sunset.

Jack

There is definitely more cyan in the second image. Perhaps a combination of the time difference and the fact that you apparently moved your camera position to the left have something to do with the shift. Did you change focal length; were you using a CP filter? Light can be funny!

I agree with the difference in time being significant. I also noticed that you shifted your system to the left taking in much more of the boulder at a close range. As I watch a sunset it normaly starts off pale then turns to a deeper tone and then turn pale again. That can easily happen in a 5 minute time frame. It looks like your second frame was taken toward the end of the cycle.

Okay thanks, guys, i see what you are saying. George, i only set the temp to 7K for this comparison, i assumed that it would "equalize" the two but apparently i was wrong! I knew i could count on you guys to set me straight