Posted by Larry Puckett on January 15, 2009 at 1:35 PM
I am looking 77mm GND filters and am not familiar with B+W having mostly ordered Hoyas in the past. So are there various "grades" of quality in the B+W line? I see that these are made of acrylic and not glass. Is the #502 good quality? (I know, define good!)
Also, is there a website somewhere that demystifies what all the various Hoya terms really mean. They have HMC, Super HMC, PRO1, Digital and it is pretty confusing to figure it all out. Most of this seems to reflect the number and type of coatings on the glass which in turn seems to control the degree of ghosting and flaring. Under what circumstances are these various coatings necessary--I know some folks like to use uncoated glass fitlers. Thanks--Larry
Posted by James Hersey on January 15, 2009 at 3:44 PM
I like the only B+W filter a B+W Kaeseman circ. Polz. (MCR) extra wide, but for my GND I use a Singh-Ray GND that fits a cokin P holder. I prefer using a longer GND in a holder allows you to place the gradient where you choose. Cokin P is cost effective and you can adapt it to anything to 77mm but you may want to cut off all but the first filter holder if you will be using a wide lens. I use a ND in a threaded type but always want to use a GND with an adjustable option. Hope this might help
You will not be happy with a screw-in GND. The transition will be in the wrong place most of the time. That's why the Singh Ray and Cokin work so well- You can shift the filter up and down to match the composition. The P size is fine for 77mm lenses, but a James notes, you might have to dremel the outer slots off the Cokin holder to prevent vignetting with really wide angle lenses.
Posted by Larry Puckett on January 15, 2009 at 6:55 PM
OK, I see what you're saying. I noticed in Art Wolf's series "Travels to the Edge" that he was hand holding his filters. Do most folks do it that way or use the filter holders? Seems taht would work for an ND but no so well for a GND, especially for longer exposures--Larry
I handhold GND's when exposures are short and I can be sure I won't get stray light between them and the lens. If I'm on the tripod, no, whether long or short exposures.
BTW- If you have lenses with different filter sizes you'll need either multiple backing plates for the Cokin filter holder or step up rings. I vote for the former because of the occasional difficulty of stepup rings jamming onto filters. There are ways around the jamming and cures when it happens, but multiple backing plates are hassle free. Similar price and bulk in your bag.
One more BTW, or would it be BTW2- Positioning the GND can be difficult, especially a 2x. You wouldn't think so, but it's easy for the margin between clear and gray to disappear when viewed through the viewfinder. I don't recall where I learned this, but keep a pad of the smallest Post-It notes with your filters. Stick it on the outside of the filter to mark the break between the zones, and as you might guess, remember to pull it off before shooting. That's a tripod stunt.
Okay, how about a BTW3- I got tired of chasing my assortment of GND filters, backing plates and Post-it notes around the compartments of my camera bags and packs. I found a small mesh stuff sack on the REI sale table for $2. Everything goes in there. Brilliant.
Posted by Larry Puckett on January 15, 2009 at 10:42 PM
After doing some shopping I see that Cokin also sells a wide angle holder that apparently is what you achieve by chopping the standard P series holder. This one holds only 1 filter but it says it's only good down to about 20mm wide angle. So for the Canon 10-22 or Tokina 12-24 lenses I guess you do have to hand hold the filter?
That wasn't available years ago when I bought and modified, but yeah. It sounds like the same deal. If you're shooting full frame I wouldn't go with lenses shorter than 20 if you're using the P filters and holders. I'm using a Nikon D2X (not full frame) and have no problems with either the Nikon 12-24 or the Sigma 10-20 (both 77mm). If you're full frame and want to use very short lenses, you'll have to go to the size bigger than P. Late in the evening and my brain is fuzzy, so I don't remember the designation of that size. Sorry, but it's on Cokin's web site I'm sure.
Posted by Bill Chambers on January 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM
As Hank mentioned, keeping up with a variety of GNDs can be a hassle. I found it very handy to color code them so I can quickly grab the right one. A just small amount of colored electrical tape will do the trick and save a lot of time.
What a great idea Bill! I'm headed for the tape drawer downstairs right now.
Posted by David Bostedo on January 16, 2009 at 6:04 PM
Under what circumstances are these various coatings necessary--I know some folks like to use uncoated glass fitlers.
I've personally never heard of anyone preferring un-coated, and always heard to get the highest level you can. I don't know of any drawbacks to the coatings. Perhaps getting uncoated filters is old advice (I've only been into this for a couple of years). Was there ever a time when coatings were bad?
Posted by Larry Puckett on January 16, 2009 at 7:38 PM
I think the rationale I read was that coatings make it harder to get the filter good and clean plus they scratch easier--Larry
Posted by David Bostedo on January 16, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Larry - Those are both true (hence some newer filters touting their super hard coatings). But I don't think they scratch all that easily (I haven't scratched mine - but I always use a holder when it's not on the camera.) But neither of those things has the capability of ruining an image, so the usual advice I've heard is go for the coatings.
Discussion
11 repliesAlso, is there a website somewhere that demystifies what all the various Hoya terms really mean. They have HMC, Super HMC, PRO1, Digital and it is pretty confusing to figure it all out. Most of this seems to reflect the number and type of coatings on the glass which in turn seems to control the degree of ghosting and flaring. Under what circumstances are these various coatings necessary--I know some folks like to use uncoated glass fitlers. Thanks--Larry
BTW- If you have lenses with different filter sizes you'll need either multiple backing plates for the Cokin filter holder or step up rings. I vote for the former because of the occasional difficulty of stepup rings jamming onto filters. There are ways around the jamming and cures when it happens, but multiple backing plates are hassle free. Similar price and bulk in your bag.
One more BTW, or would it be BTW2- Positioning the GND can be difficult, especially a 2x. You wouldn't think so, but it's easy for the margin between clear and gray to disappear when viewed through the viewfinder. I don't recall where I learned this, but keep a pad of the smallest Post-It notes with your filters. Stick it on the outside of the filter to mark the break between the zones, and as you might guess, remember to pull it off before shooting. That's a tripod stunt.
Okay, how about a BTW3- I got tired of chasing my assortment of GND filters, backing plates and Post-it notes around the compartments of my camera bags and packs. I found a small mesh stuff sack on the REI sale table for $2. Everything goes in there. Brilliant.
I've personally never heard of anyone preferring un-coated, and always heard to get the highest level you can. I don't know of any drawbacks to the coatings. Perhaps getting uncoated filters is old advice (I've only been into this for a couple of years). Was there ever a time when coatings were bad?