Posted by Rick Lundh on January 20, 2009 at 1:17 AM
I know this isnt an eagle...but I shot this hawk this last weekend in Central Oregon while driving around with my girlfriend. It's a little blurry because it was handheld out of my car window, accross the passenger seat. Obviously, this is not my forte...
I'm not really seeking critique here to be honest. I'm actually gonna rant a little. I quit posting to this forum because it has become rather sad. I say shame to all those who have the time to comment on Marc's images, but offer nothing to anyone else. 180 views and 1 comment...that's disgusting to see next to one with 19 comments. That's not Marc's fault of course...so no stab there big guy... but for those who have offered praise to Marc but not comments to others...shame shame. Time to wipe off the noses there a bit and contribute more.
Posted by Rick Lundh on January 20, 2009 at 1:18 AM
shot 2
Posted by Geoff Shapiro on January 20, 2009 at 1:54 AM
Rough-legged hawk juvenile, Rick! Although you didn't want any critique, let me say that it looks like you have potential if you decide to come over to the dark side (ie: bird photography)...
I agree with you 100% in your description of the commenting pattern here. It is natural that a photographer as good as Marc will attract lots of lookers and more than their share of comments. But that is no excuse for some to home in on just his posts and skip over the others. The ones that do it know who they are.
Meanwhile, it would be a shame for you to not post here. Lead by example, Rick. You've done well in that in the past and there's no reason you couldn't do that in the future.
Want to try and get shots of those owls again down my way? I don't know if they're still there but I could scout the area out beforehand.
Posted by Rick Lundh on January 20, 2009 at 11:58 AM
In my sick sense of humor, it would have been kinda funny if nobody commented on this post of mine...
Thanks for the comments Geoff and Jesse. Geoff...I would love to try and get some more shots of that owl sometime soon. It's been a while since we've shot together, and it would be great to see you. I might actually look at getting the Bigma so I can get some closer shots than with my 70-200 without spending an arm and a leg.
As for my posting here... I had to take a break after giving so much input and not seeing it given back. With all of the new folks here, they've just experienced a pattern of looksies and hopefully this rant will spark some thoughts. This used to be a great place for us all to learn. Now its becoming more like FM. Never too late to change that though, eh?
Posted by Mark Hudon on January 20, 2009 at 12:01 PM
The second one is nice.
Posted by Ned Fenimore on January 20, 2009 at 12:18 PM
I really like the second one, too, Rick.. way to make the capture..
Hey Rick, NPN is no where near as bad as FM. Over there they all kiss each others butts- not just Marc's!
All kidding aside, even though I am a newer member I know what you mean. I joined NPN after lurking quite a while, and decided that it is the best place on the web I have found to learn, and share with like minded people about photography. It is a little sad that some of the big guns get hundreds of views and dozens of comments, and others quite few. But wipe away all of the brown nosed atta boys and compare the views to actual critique ratio, and the numbers tell a different story.
A few years ago, my brother and I went duck hunting. He shot his limit of 7, and I only shot 3, even though we were in the same blind. He started razzing me about out-shooting me, but the problem was that he went through a two boxes of shells, and I only missed a few times all day. In my book, I wouldn't say he won.
I guess this is just a kinda long-winded way to encourage you to look past the BS and focus on the quality comments and critique. In my short time here I have already learned alot, and made some new friends, which is well worth the money to be a member here. And as you say, no offense to Marc. It's not his fault that he is such a talented guy. I commented in one of his recent posts about the knowledge I gain from other peoples critiques on his photos. You might not always get helpful info on one of your images, but there is still plenty to be taken from this website, and in my opinion still way ahead of most other similar places on the net.
Keep shooting, and keep posting.
Posted by Erik Lundh on January 20, 2009 at 5:21 PM
Rick,
I like the second one as well.... As for your comment, there is alot of truth to what you say but alot of the views we get here are from lurkers. I think alot of the problem comes from the high number of top quality images that just keep getting better every year. More people are getting into digital photography and the same type of shots are being posted over and over. Three years ago I posted an image of the cliffs across from Bridal Veil. There was lots of fog and it had a Jurassic Park type look to it with four temporary falls. Everyone was all over it and I had close to 30 comments. About six months ago, I posted the same image. I think it received six comments. We have had dozens of new members so I thought I would do the experiment. That told me alot. The "WOW" factor has changed.
One other note, everyone has the right to use the forum the way they want, within the rules of course. But yes, I do see where your comming from.
I hear you, Rick. I seldom comment on Marc's posts because I usually don't have anything new to add and don't subscribe to the MAAS (Marc Adamus admiration society). He is a great photographer aspiring to be another Galen Rowell. He deserves that honor or recognition for the nearly heroic efforts he goes to for his images and his obvious skill. I am thankful he shares his work and details.
But I also don't comment much on your and others work because I often find nothing to critique. Maybe because I don't think I could do any better or my nits have already been covered. And checking my own stats it appears I get maybe 1 comment for every 100 views of my posts, comparable to others comment rate but also significantly less that a clique of Portland area members who all seem to know each other and "focus" on each others work.
But I seem to get better feedback from ESS, Fauna, Avian, and the other "subject" forums, so I may stay involved and renew my membership.
I like #2 - the separation of bird and sky is what I like to see - like a pic from the NGM. As for my Quasimodo appearances on this site (who is this guy writing here?), my photography has been nonexistent for over a year now. I take lots of pics of the kids. But that's it. I haven't been to Gorge in over a year, Mt. Hood in almost 3 years.
Why? Well, the little ones keep me busy. More than most. Medical this-n-that. The big operation is done, but we need to prepare for at least two more big if not bigger ones years down the line. Not to mention #1 is in kindergarten and all the parent meetings and PTA meetings, soccer, etc. Also, I don't have the time to market myself - leads dry up quickly unless continually trying to get new ones. I really don't want another job.
I see where you're coming from, but I think alot of us can only dream of taking those Marc style pictures. Yes, we can buy the same equipment and learn his techniques. But we really don't have the time to go romping through the backwoods for months on end.
So I guess I'm saying to you and everyone, that I like to look at the work here. It's inspirational. I feel out of shape, so to speak, since I haven't been able to shoot hardly at all. So I don't know what to add that would be helpful except my rusty opinion.
I do think, though, I could pop in more often & say hi. I lurk alot more than I probably should.
You shot those from the car?! I'd be happy with either, but especially the second one. It's a beautiful bird, and thanks to Geoff for the ID.
I hear you re: this forum. Sometimes it's a little discouraging to see so little interest in the way of participation. I think low comments happen to just about all of us except Marc A. And he doesn't comment here so much, either... So? He's out being ambitious, while he has the opportunity, to make a name for himself. Most of the rest of us may want to be very, very good but otherwise do not have the same wherewithall as he does and have made different life choices.
Then, you(s) have helped me to get better, and you(s) pass out the kudos when earned. Everyone has ups and downs and so do groups in their lifetime. I sense this group is a little down. So this is a time to be more nurturing and forgiving, until we recognize anew that helping one another and having fun is pretty much what it's about. That there are many new members means we get to pass on what we've learned from each other. Let's get about it! There you have it from "lil' sis" or "old auntie," or "the woman's perspective," or "big sis," whichever
niche I fill here with all you guys....
And btw, the Flora EP came my way this week, I dare say, for a wintery Cotoneaster persevering with some seasonal color. It's over in "the best Flora Forum on the planet."
Thanks for telling us how you feel, Rick, and do jump back in when you feel like it.
Posted by John Williams on January 25, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Your comments in this post led me to post my FAQ reminder. We have lost a bit of the banter that was the norm when I joined. It is frustrating if folks like you move on because of a lack of participation. I have really enjoyed your comments in the past, and have missed them since you have been scarce over the last months. You have an ability to cut to the chase that is a rare talent.
Aaron,
Over there they all kiss each others butts- not just Marc's!
Discussion
11 repliesI'm not really seeking critique here to be honest. I'm actually gonna rant a little. I quit posting to this forum because it has become rather sad. I say shame to all those who have the time to comment on Marc's images, but offer nothing to anyone else. 180 views and 1 comment...that's disgusting to see next to one with 19 comments. That's not Marc's fault of course...so no stab there big guy... but for those who have offered praise to Marc but not comments to others...shame shame. Time to wipe off the noses there a bit and contribute more.
I agree with you 100% in your description of the commenting pattern here. It is natural that a photographer as good as Marc will attract lots of lookers and more than their share of comments. But that is no excuse for some to home in on just his posts and skip over the others. The ones that do it know who they are.
Meanwhile, it would be a shame for you to not post here. Lead by example, Rick. You've done well in that in the past and there's no reason you couldn't do that in the future.
Want to try and get shots of those owls again down my way? I don't know if they're still there but I could scout the area out beforehand.
Thanks for the comments Geoff and Jesse. Geoff...I would love to try and get some more shots of that owl sometime soon. It's been a while since we've shot together, and it would be great to see you. I might actually look at getting the Bigma so I can get some closer shots than with my 70-200 without spending an arm and a leg.
As for my posting here... I had to take a break after giving so much input and not seeing it given back. With all of the new folks here, they've just experienced a pattern of looksies and hopefully this rant will spark some thoughts. This used to be a great place for us all to learn. Now its becoming more like FM. Never too late to change that though, eh?
All kidding aside, even though I am a newer member I know what you mean. I joined NPN after lurking quite a while, and decided that it is the best place on the web I have found to learn, and share with like minded people about photography. It is a little sad that some of the big guns get hundreds of views and dozens of comments, and others quite few. But wipe away all of the brown nosed atta boys and compare the views to actual critique ratio, and the numbers tell a different story.
A few years ago, my brother and I went duck hunting. He shot his limit of 7, and I only shot 3, even though we were in the same blind. He started razzing me about out-shooting me, but the problem was that he went through a two boxes of shells, and I only missed a few times all day. In my book, I wouldn't say he won.
I guess this is just a kinda long-winded way to encourage you to look past the BS and focus on the quality comments and critique. In my short time here I have already learned alot, and made some new friends, which is well worth the money to be a member here. And as you say, no offense to Marc. It's not his fault that he is such a talented guy. I commented in one of his recent posts about the knowledge I gain from other peoples critiques on his photos. You might not always get helpful info on one of your images, but there is still plenty to be taken from this website, and in my opinion still way ahead of most other similar places on the net.
Keep shooting, and keep posting.
I like the second one as well.... As for your comment, there is alot of truth to what you say but alot of the views we get here are from lurkers. I think alot of the problem comes from the high number of top quality images that just keep getting better every year. More people are getting into digital photography and the same type of shots are being posted over and over. Three years ago I posted an image of the cliffs across from Bridal Veil. There was lots of fog and it had a Jurassic Park type look to it with four temporary falls. Everyone was all over it and I had close to 30 comments. About six months ago, I posted the same image. I think it received six comments. We have had dozens of new members so I thought I would do the experiment. That told me alot. The "WOW" factor has changed.
One other note, everyone has the right to use the forum the way they want, within the rules of course. But yes, I do see where your comming from.
But I also don't comment much on your and others work because I often find nothing to critique. Maybe because I don't think I could do any better or my nits have already been covered. And checking my own stats it appears I get maybe 1 comment for every 100 views of my posts, comparable to others comment rate but also significantly less that a clique of Portland area members who all seem to know each other and "focus" on each others work.
But I seem to get better feedback from ESS, Fauna, Avian, and the other "subject" forums, so I may stay involved and renew my membership.
I like #2 - the separation of bird and sky is what I like to see - like a pic from the NGM. As for my Quasimodo appearances on this site (who is this guy writing here?), my photography has been nonexistent for over a year now. I take lots of pics of the kids. But that's it. I haven't been to Gorge in over a year, Mt. Hood in almost 3 years.
Why? Well, the little ones keep me busy. More than most. Medical this-n-that. The big operation is done, but we need to prepare for at least two more big if not bigger ones years down the line. Not to mention #1 is in kindergarten and all the parent meetings and PTA meetings, soccer, etc. Also, I don't have the time to market myself - leads dry up quickly unless continually trying to get new ones. I really don't want another job.
I see where you're coming from, but I think alot of us can only dream of taking those Marc style pictures. Yes, we can buy the same equipment and learn his techniques. But we really don't have the time to go romping through the backwoods for months on end.
So I guess I'm saying to you and everyone, that I like to look at the work here. It's inspirational. I feel out of shape, so to speak, since I haven't been able to shoot hardly at all. So I don't know what to add that would be helpful except my rusty opinion.
I do think, though, I could pop in more often & say hi. I lurk alot more than I probably should.
There you go, Rick. You now have 10 posts.
Kevin
I hear you re: this forum. Sometimes it's a little discouraging to see so little interest in the way of participation. I think low comments happen to just about all of us except Marc A. And he doesn't comment here so much, either... So? He's out being ambitious, while he has the opportunity, to make a name for himself. Most of the rest of us may want to be very, very good but otherwise do not have the same wherewithall as he does and have made different life choices.
Then, you(s) have helped me to get better, and you(s) pass out the kudos when earned. Everyone has ups and downs and so do groups in their lifetime. I sense this group is a little down. So this is a time to be more nurturing and forgiving, until we recognize anew that helping one another and having fun is pretty much what it's about. That there are many new members means we get to pass on what we've learned from each other. Let's get about it! There you have it from "lil' sis" or "old auntie," or "the woman's perspective," or "big sis," whichever
niche I fill here with all you guys....
And btw, the Flora EP came my way this week, I dare say, for a wintery Cotoneaster persevering with some seasonal color. It's over in "the best Flora Forum on the planet."
Thanks for telling us how you feel, Rick, and do jump back in when you feel like it.
Aaron,
That totally cracked me up