Posted by Dan Borzynski on January 22, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Yeah... Canon has had some major PR fumbles the last couple of years (and this from a Canon shooter). To their credit, they seem to have quickly acknowledged the black dot issue on the D5 Mark II, so at least they learned from their recent 1-series problems.
Takes 'em a long time to learn that they should not deny that real problems exist. D
Posted by Brad Hill on January 22, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Hey Darwin,
As a very "invested" (in lenses, accessories, etc.) Nikon user, I have to say I'm pleased that Nikon is back to at least even with Canon in camera performance. I had to live through a number of years where I knew that Nikon was lagging behind. That knowledge was in the back of my mind a LOT! I hoped Nikon would "strike back". And they have - but I have no illusion that Nikon's current edge in some areas (e.g., high ISO performance and, with the D3x, a significant edge in colour depth and dynamic range) will last for long. Canon and Nikon will continue to play leap-frog...and Sony may even become a real factor some time in the future (I don't think they're a serious option for most pros right now).
Anyway...(and I'm sure you know this)...users of both Nikon and Canon have products good enough now that the camera is only very rarely the limiting factor in producing great images...
As a 40-year Nikon user with dozens of lenses, all I can say is "thank goodness for Canon." If they hadn't been leading the digital pack for so long, I doubt Nikon would ever have advanced to their current state. And I sorely didn't want to unload a lifeftime collection of Nikon lenses to get Canon-level of performance.
In the same spirit, if Nikon can press ahead and continue surpassing Canon for a few years, as a good company Canon will respond with improved performance.
Bodies come and go, sometimes at the rate of one a year. But lenses are forever. I sure wouldn't dump a bunch of Canon lenses in order to use Nikon. Sooner or later, Canon will be back.
Competition is good and Canon got Nikon to be a better company, the roles are now reversed. And we can add Sony to the mix! This is all healthy stuff and good for photographers, we are getting amazing cameras as a result!
What I do care about is a company that denies a problem with their product when those problems are so well documented. And I also find it bothersome that Canon was so slow to fix the problem and help individual photographers get their cameras running as advertised. Let’s just say that customer service was not rated very highly by photographers trying to get their Mark III’s fixed!
Canon did the correct thing with the 5D Mark II by not denying the Black Dot program. Most of the camera manufacturers have had ‘problem’ releases, but Canon did the best job I have ever seen of denial with the Mark III cameras.
Hopefully Canon has learned its PR lesson and will do a better job in the future not alienating their customers - so far it looks like they will.
Now if they could only make a good wide-angle zoom!
"Hopefully Canon has learned its PR lesson and will do a better job in the future not alienating their customers - so far it looks like they will."
I doubt it, with good reason. It looks like SOSDD from my past experience.
Canon and I parted company years ago over their PR department, back when the D30 first came out. I needed it and bought it along with 5 lenses on the strength of a really attractive rebate program at the time, through which I qualified for $900 from my purchase. On top of the long line of Nikon, Mamiya and Linhoff gear we were already using in the studio.
Months after sending in the form and including my original register receipt as instructed, I got a check for $50, perhaps coincidentally the smallest rebate on the list of six. Calls yielded a succession of Canon PR yokels, excuse me- representatives, who told me that no, no. I needed an original receipt for each piece of gear as well as a separate rebate form for each piece. Nowhere on their site, in their ads, or on the forms did it say any such nonsense. And no they couldn't return my original receipt. I finally got as far up the chain of command as I could get on the phone, and I can quote the exact words from this lofty rep: "Life's tough, isn't it?"
Not only was I out $850, I dumped the gear at a considerable loss. Right at a $2000 loss as a matter of fact.
Sooooo..... When I get an apology from Canon and a check for $2,850 I just might consider going back to the big C. Until then, I'm delighted that they are doing such a great service to us Nikon users!
There Darwin, I've seen your rant and raised it two!
This may not be the place to rant about your wee cannon.
Pete D., Whee
Posted by Wayne Simpson on January 23, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Darwin,
As you know, I'm with you on this one. I could go on and on about my canon problems–this lens works with that body but not this body, this body won't focus worth crap, this lens stays on that body that lens stays on this body... As a person who shoots portraits and weddings as well as nature, the focus issues get really old really fast! All I have to do is have the wrong lens on my mark III during an event and I'm screwed...can't even tell if the image is sharp because of the crap screen! Deep breath, deep breath...see now you got me started!
Wayne
Posted by Brad Mangas on January 23, 2009 at 10:56 AM
It is always extremely interesting to debate the technical aspects of any given equipment in this case digital cameras. You summed it up when you said;
"For me, I end up with the same kinds of photos no matter what brand of camera I use. What does matter is trust."
With that being said the technical aspects of each are put on a level playing field, which I believe is most correct. It also shares your experience with a person such as myself ( with much less experience) and increases my awareness of problems that may arise. For this I thank you Darwin.
The knowledge that is shared here is truly invaluable. For with the proper knowledge one can make decisions that are best for them.
Posted by Varina Patel on January 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM
I am so often asked which company makes better cameras... and the answer depends entirely upon the individual camera. The important thing is the competition - each needs the other to keep them striving for the next best thing. I couldn't agree with your post more, Darwin. It's frustrating to be at the mercy of Canon - (or Nikon - depending upon who's the underdog at the time). But I'm glad they have each other. :)
I enjoyed your rant - you speak for many of us, I think.
Posted by Rakesh Malik on January 28, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Threads like this one make me glad that I don't rely on Canon or Nikon for my photography. :)
Discussion
11 repliessee - http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/
As a very "invested" (in lenses, accessories, etc.) Nikon user, I have to say I'm pleased that Nikon is back to at least even with Canon in camera performance. I had to live through a number of years where I knew that Nikon was lagging behind. That knowledge was in the back of my mind a LOT! I hoped Nikon would "strike back". And they have - but I have no illusion that Nikon's current edge in some areas (e.g., high ISO performance and, with the D3x, a significant edge in colour depth and dynamic range) will last for long. Canon and Nikon will continue to play leap-frog...and Sony may even become a real factor some time in the future (I don't think they're a serious option for most pros right now).
Anyway...(and I'm sure you know this)...users of both Nikon and Canon have products good enough now that the camera is only very rarely the limiting factor in producing great images...
Cheers...glad you feel better now...
Brad
In the same spirit, if Nikon can press ahead and continue surpassing Canon for a few years, as a good company Canon will respond with improved performance.
Bodies come and go, sometimes at the rate of one a year. But lenses are forever. I sure wouldn't dump a bunch of Canon lenses in order to use Nikon. Sooner or later, Canon will be back.
What I do care about is a company that denies a problem with their product when those problems are so well documented. And I also find it bothersome that Canon was so slow to fix the problem and help individual photographers get their cameras running as advertised. Let’s just say that customer service was not rated very highly by photographers trying to get their Mark III’s fixed!
Canon did the correct thing with the 5D Mark II by not denying the Black Dot program. Most of the camera manufacturers have had ‘problem’ releases, but Canon did the best job I have ever seen of denial with the Mark III cameras.
Hopefully Canon has learned its PR lesson and will do a better job in the future not alienating their customers - so far it looks like they will.
Now if they could only make a good wide-angle zoom!
Darwin
I doubt it, with good reason. It looks like SOSDD from my past experience.
Canon and I parted company years ago over their PR department, back when the D30 first came out. I needed it and bought it along with 5 lenses on the strength of a really attractive rebate program at the time, through which I qualified for $900 from my purchase. On top of the long line of Nikon, Mamiya and Linhoff gear we were already using in the studio.
Months after sending in the form and including my original register receipt as instructed, I got a check for $50, perhaps coincidentally the smallest rebate on the list of six. Calls yielded a succession of Canon PR yokels, excuse me- representatives, who told me that no, no. I needed an original receipt for each piece of gear as well as a separate rebate form for each piece. Nowhere on their site, in their ads, or on the forms did it say any such nonsense. And no they couldn't return my original receipt. I finally got as far up the chain of command as I could get on the phone, and I can quote the exact words from this lofty rep: "Life's tough, isn't it?"
Not only was I out $850, I dumped the gear at a considerable loss. Right at a $2000 loss as a matter of fact.
Sooooo..... When I get an apology from Canon and a check for $2,850 I just might consider going back to the big C. Until then, I'm delighted that they are doing such a great service to us Nikon users!
There Darwin, I've seen your rant and raised it two!
Pete D., Whee
As you know, I'm with you on this one. I could go on and on about my canon problems–this lens works with that body but not this body, this body won't focus worth crap, this lens stays on that body that lens stays on this body... As a person who shoots portraits and weddings as well as nature, the focus issues get really old really fast! All I have to do is have the wrong lens on my mark III during an event and I'm screwed...can't even tell if the image is sharp because of the crap screen! Deep breath, deep breath...see now you got me started!
Wayne
"For me, I end up with the same kinds of photos no matter what brand of camera I use. What does matter is trust."
With that being said the technical aspects of each are put on a level playing field, which I believe is most correct. It also shares your experience with a person such as myself ( with much less experience) and increases my awareness of problems that may arise. For this I thank you Darwin.
The knowledge that is shared here is truly invaluable. For with the proper knowledge one can make decisions that are best for them.
I enjoyed your rant - you speak for many of us, I think.