Well, as things seem pretty quiet right now I thought I'd post a couple more images from our Fall Color outing. These candid shots have turned out to be a good collection from that trip.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on January 30, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Thanks for saying so Paul...
I agree and have to admit this forum is a lot quieter than the RMNP forum which I particated in before moving back to CA. I was a pretty average poster over there in terms of # of posts/responses per week. But over here I feel like some kind of wild man or something.
When my name is on two posts in a row I am starting to wonder. Hmm... Maybe I should I 'slow down' a bit? Or is there something wrong with CA in that there is not enough to photograph?
Do the 'Big Time' and/or 'small time' CA photographers just like to keep to themselves more? I know I never see the photographers who have galleries in Carmel for example (I won't mention names) posting here. Do they not want to share insights/trade secrets or something like that, maybe a little paranoid? I mean look at the population of CA in comparison to CO or the PNW. Then look at the number of posts and corresponding responses on NPN. We must have many more here photogs here. So where are they? Just kinda of strange if you ask me... But oh well. I'll continue to post, make comments, and share locations, insights, etc... with those who ask. CO was great in that regard. It was in large part because of that spirit that my interests and skills really grew. And this is just a hobby for me, but one which I am passionate about none the less.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate everyone's posts and advice here. I am preaching to the choir for the most part. I am just a little perplexed as to where the rest of the photogs are? Just based on sheer numbers and variety of geography we should have one of the most active boards on NPN IMO. Ok, sorry rant over. You can now return to your normally scheduled programs...
Hi Derek, a very good comment and insight overall. This issue was an item presented to me when I first started posting here at NPN & CANP a few years back now. The question was somewhat along the lines of, "with California being so large, where is everyone?” or something like that. In any case the size of California & overall diversity may add to the issue for various reasons.
When I was in Drag Racing years ago I was among a group of hard-core racers who belonged to the Pro Gas Association of So Cal. Back in those days we traveled the entire state for events. However, whenever we had low turnouts at certain events we blamed it on the "Disneyland" factor or syndrome if you will. This was in no way directed at Disneyland, it was based upon the multi diversity of everything we have in the state of California to do. As such people may have many interests going for them, or, they just have chosen a new entertainment outlet as time had gone by.
So, in keeping with that thought line there is a lot to do in California and people in many cases multi focus their interests. Another factor to add to the issue can be geographic. The size of California is a tremendous plus in many ways, but can be a bit daunting when you are behind the wheel for 2 to 8 hours to get to many locations for new or different perspectives for shooting enjoyment.
Personally, I think right now things have slowed a bit with the complete down turn in the economy. Not to use that as excuse or an answer to low posts, but the cost of travel to sites and stay over have slowed many, including me. Another thing some of us face, me included, are the added expenses with shooting film. UGH !, it can be a love-hate thing at times. As others, I just enjoy the entire package of shooting film, except the tab of doing it at times. I would think many of us 4x5 shooters are in the range of $4 - $5 per shot these days with cost of film and the processing. But, again that is not a complaint at all, just a reality of not being able to burn as many shots per se as the digital folks would be up to doing on each outing.
My main reason for this post was more for just taking the time to say hello and share the last couple images I stumbled upon from our outing in the fall. Overall I think you will find that CANP may not be near as active as some of the other regional groups, but it still gives us all another dimension to the NPN site but on a bit of a different level.
Posted by Lon Overacker on January 30, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Paul,
Thanks for posting. The pics bring back some good memories from a nice gathering last fall. It was my last big photo outing which is one of the reasons I've been so quite as of late. If it isn't already obvious, my involvement on the forums is pretty much directly related to my photo activities. And so when I'm not out shooting or have new images to share, I'm usually taking care of other things like family, life and work... :-)
Derek, you don't need to "name names," but I don't know of any CANP members who have galleries in Carmel... I think Paul nailed it with the "Disneyland" factor. You can start with the difference in population between CA and CO, but add to that all the multitudes of online forums available these days and competition for time and space pretty much weeds things down to what we have here. For me personally, I chose NPN just over 2 yrs ago as my online forum of choice. There's lots of great places, but honestly I don't see how anyone could make consistent and meaningful contributions by spreading themselves around. I consider this place home, where if I happen to dissappear for a few weeks or months, I don't get judged. I've made many new friends here.
I agree it's been rather quiet, but hey, that's ok too. I'll finish this and then I'll make another post that might just spark some dialogue. Plus, I'll have some new images to post in another week or so.
Hope everyone on CANP is doing well!
Lon
Posted by Derek Sedillo on January 30, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Paul,
Those are interesting observations on this phenomenon. I know in CO many of the LF shooters also suppliment their LF shots with digital. That way they seem to get the best of both worlds. This also may add to the overall affordability.
At the annual Shindig in Denver LF shooters normally bring in their LF prints and compare them to similar digitals. Although the digitals are good it is obvious that LF still resolves more detail. Yet many of the others have made the switch to digital, print and sell large and do not want to shoot film any longer. I enjoy shooting with the LF guys because they are so methodical about getting the shot. I think it helps me to slow down a bit and really consider the scene.
And yes I could also see the 'Disney' effect being part of the issue. While CA is huge state I know even in smaller states like CO many guys/gals will drive 6+ hrs to get the shot. I used to drive to the San Juans from Colorado Springs in Summer and Fall for some of the best conditions CO has to offer. Of course one doesn't make those trips every day. The economy could also be an issue. Although this effects the entire country and numbers should be comparable across the board. I just find it an interesting question.
Lon, it sounds like you concur with Paul for the most part re the Disney effect. My question is more about photographers 'in general' in CA. It does not apply to ppl who already participate in NPN. Everyone goes thru dry spells which is normal. Right now our combination of 'no clouds or snow' has been somewhat of a challenge for me.
Thanks again for all your posts and input! It would be interesting to hear what others thoughts on this are as well.
Derek
Posted by Paul Dileanis on January 31, 2009 at 12:49 AM
Or, some of us are sitting around plotting to take over the world or worse, another photo outing
I for one am working a full time job, still shooting assignments on the side and have been teaching and putting together a photography workshops program. Leaves me little time for chat chat and I assume most people in the Bay Area are as busy as I am or looking for work. I appreciate the efforts of those who post here and draw inspiration from their images and insights, even if I don't always have time to respond.
Derek, Lon, Paul, and Jeffrey, these are all excellent comments and observations. This turned out to be an interesting thread off of just posting a couple images from my P&S Nikon Coolpix 4300.
I think Paul D. speaks for many of us with his statement, " I appreciate the efforts of those who post here and draw inspiration from their images and insights, even if I don't always have time to respond."
I totally agree. Thanks to all those that do have the time to post and comment, it is always appreciated.
Posted by Richard Wong on February 1, 2009 at 4:37 PM
In my opinion, California is so diverse and has so many distractions that it is very difficult to have a large community even in a niche forum like this. As is, I've gone shooting with a few NPN members and they are great company.
I like CANP because those who post here tend to do so regularly. As for myself, I have a lot of different things knocking on my door at the moment so I've mostly been lurking the past few months. There have been a lot of great Yosemite photos here lately.
Posted by David Senesac on February 5, 2009 at 12:01 AM
I don't buy into some of the arguments above as to why this sub forum has always had such low participation. It certainly isn't the fault of moderators or NPN as they have tried to get members involved. On the site's general forum and hot topics, at times there are some good debates with many putting their two cents in. If the responses to say to images are simply short one or two line strokes with little substance, there is little benefit to stimulating meaningful worthwhile discussion. At times I've tried to inject some lengthier dialogue about such and such places in order to give others an opportunity to read something they might have a common experience and jump in. But my take on the usual responses are anything beyond two sentences makes many here uncomfortable.
Way back, there was a period of a few months when I decided to lurk less and post more. However even when someone posts a worthwhile subject about California, if only one or two others bother to post, why bother? A lack of critical mass to make a worthwhile discussion. The web has an endless list of forums people and companies started that never gained critical mass and have been forever stale and ignored. Web forum creators too often think alot of sub-forums is a better structure but that inevitably results in low visibility and lack of interest in many. People simply dislike forums without activity. One cure is to combine forums and I think that ought to be done on this board including the regionals.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on February 5, 2009 at 1:14 AM
David,
I appreciate your honesty and agree with some of the points you mentioned. And I think I know where you are coming from with respects to sub forums and critical mass.
However I found things quite different on the RMNP regional forum for example which covers an area with a lot less ppl. There is simply more participation all around. And as a native Californian who moved to CO then back this begs the question in my mind why not 'more' input here. And I appreciate some of the CANPers who answered above and gave their take on things.
It seems funny to me in that Californians are known for speaking their mind almost to a fault. Yet the quieter PNWNP and RMNP ppl seem to have a lot more to say on their respective boards. And I don't know if there is any one simple answer that anybody could point and say 'see this is why.' It just is what it is.
Whatever our individual takes are on the matter, I do think many could relate with the title of the post. I personally like the regional forums as I get to talk with my local photographer friends who share common interests and ideas like where/when to shoot a CA scene. It also provides a chance to meet up with other locals which I have already done after 5 months of moving here from CO. And I have plans to meet more of the folks I have met here. I couldn't really do that as well in a general forum like on FM where I also particate on occasion or on photo.net.
I guess I would just like to encourage others to share more of their stories and photos even if they are not necessarily earth shattering. Part of it is just being human and more real with each other I think. For example there was a thread on the PNWNP a while back about 'what do you do when you are in a slump photographically?'
Either way I think the regional forums add value on NPN. I think CANP will pick up soon once we get some more weather. And Spring isn't too far away. In CO I had to wait until July to see wildflowers. Winters are long in the Rockies and things seem to wane the most between late Winter and Spring as ppl get a bit tired of snow and frozen lakes. The poppies and other native flowers are just around the corner here in CA.
Posted by Eric Good on February 8, 2009 at 1:34 AM
I told myself I would make a conscientious effort to participate in the CANP forum and less in the ES&S. While I have, it's only because I hardly participate in the ES&S forum. Sadly, I find it often a daunting task to keep up with the amount of quality work in ES&S, but there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to keep up on a more regular basis here. Thanks for the friendly reminder... I'll personally try to be more active myself. I haven't been shooting much myself recently... maybe there's a correlation there. Not sure.
I will say, I'd probably be around more if my time included emptying pitchers of beer as seen in the attached photos. :)
Discussion
12 repliesI agree and have to admit this forum is a lot quieter than the RMNP forum which I particated in before moving back to CA. I was a pretty average poster over there in terms of # of posts/responses per week. But over here I feel like some kind of wild man or something.
When my name is on two posts in a row I am starting to wonder. Hmm... Maybe I should I 'slow down' a bit? Or is there something wrong with CA in that there is not enough to photograph?
Do the 'Big Time' and/or 'small time' CA photographers just like to keep to themselves more? I know I never see the photographers who have galleries in Carmel for example (I won't mention names) posting here. Do they not want to share insights/trade secrets or something like that, maybe a little paranoid? I mean look at the population of CA in comparison to CO or the PNW. Then look at the number of posts and corresponding responses on NPN. We must have many more here photogs here. So where are they? Just kinda of strange if you ask me... But oh well. I'll continue to post, make comments, and share locations, insights, etc... with those who ask. CO was great in that regard. It was in large part because of that spirit that my interests and skills really grew. And this is just a hobby for me, but one which I am passionate about none the less.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate everyone's posts and advice here. I am preaching to the choir for the most part. I am just a little perplexed as to where the rest of the photogs are? Just based on sheer numbers and variety of geography we should have one of the most active boards on NPN IMO. Ok, sorry rant over. You can now return to your normally scheduled programs...
Derek
When I was in Drag Racing years ago I was among a group of hard-core racers who belonged to the Pro Gas Association of So Cal. Back in those days we traveled the entire state for events. However, whenever we had low turnouts at certain events we blamed it on the "Disneyland" factor or syndrome if you will. This was in no way directed at Disneyland, it was based upon the multi diversity of everything we have in the state of California to do. As such people may have many interests going for them, or, they just have chosen a new entertainment outlet as time had gone by.
So, in keeping with that thought line there is a lot to do in California and people in many cases multi focus their interests. Another factor to add to the issue can be geographic. The size of California is a tremendous plus in many ways, but can be a bit daunting when you are behind the wheel for 2 to 8 hours to get to many locations for new or different perspectives for shooting enjoyment.
Personally, I think right now things have slowed a bit with the complete down turn in the economy. Not to use that as excuse or an answer to low posts, but the cost of travel to sites and stay over have slowed many, including me. Another thing some of us face, me included, are the added expenses with shooting film. UGH !, it can be a love-hate thing at times. As others, I just enjoy the entire package of shooting film, except the tab of doing it at times. I would think many of us 4x5 shooters are in the range of $4 - $5 per shot these days with cost of film and the processing. But, again that is not a complaint at all, just a reality of not being able to burn as many shots per se as the digital folks would be up to doing on each outing.
My main reason for this post was more for just taking the time to say hello and share the last couple images I stumbled upon from our outing in the fall. Overall I think you will find that CANP may not be near as active as some of the other regional groups, but it still gives us all another dimension to the NPN site but on a bit of a different level.
Thanks for posting. The pics bring back some good memories from a nice gathering last fall. It was my last big photo outing which is one of the reasons I've been so quite as of late. If it isn't already obvious, my involvement on the forums is pretty much directly related to my photo activities. And so when I'm not out shooting or have new images to share, I'm usually taking care of other things like family, life and work... :-)
Derek, you don't need to "name names," but I don't know of any CANP members who have galleries in Carmel... I think Paul nailed it with the "Disneyland" factor. You can start with the difference in population between CA and CO, but add to that all the multitudes of online forums available these days and competition for time and space pretty much weeds things down to what we have here. For me personally, I chose NPN just over 2 yrs ago as my online forum of choice. There's lots of great places, but honestly I don't see how anyone could make consistent and meaningful contributions by spreading themselves around. I consider this place home, where if I happen to dissappear for a few weeks or months, I don't get judged. I've made many new friends here.
I agree it's been rather quiet, but hey, that's ok too. I'll finish this and then I'll make another post that might just spark some dialogue. Plus, I'll have some new images to post in another week or so.
Hope everyone on CANP is doing well!
Lon
Those are interesting observations on this phenomenon. I know in CO many of the LF shooters also suppliment their LF shots with digital. That way they seem to get the best of both worlds. This also may add to the overall affordability.
At the annual Shindig in Denver LF shooters normally bring in their LF prints and compare them to similar digitals. Although the digitals are good it is obvious that LF still resolves more detail. Yet many of the others have made the switch to digital, print and sell large and do not want to shoot film any longer. I enjoy shooting with the LF guys because they are so methodical about getting the shot. I think it helps me to slow down a bit and really consider the scene.
And yes I could also see the 'Disney' effect being part of the issue. While CA is huge state I know even in smaller states like CO many guys/gals will drive 6+ hrs to get the shot. I used to drive to the San Juans from Colorado Springs in Summer and Fall for some of the best conditions CO has to offer. Of course one doesn't make those trips every day. The economy could also be an issue. Although this effects the entire country and numbers should be comparable across the board. I just find it an interesting question.
Lon, it sounds like you concur with Paul for the most part re the Disney effect. My question is more about photographers 'in general' in CA. It does not apply to ppl who already participate in NPN. Everyone goes thru dry spells which is normal. Right now our combination of 'no clouds or snow' has been somewhat of a challenge for me.
Thanks again for all your posts and input! It would be interesting to hear what others thoughts on this are as well.
Derek
I for one am working a full time job, still shooting assignments on the side and have been teaching and putting together a photography workshops program. Leaves me little time for chat chat and I assume most people in the Bay Area are as busy as I am or looking for work. I appreciate the efforts of those who post here and draw inspiration from their images and insights, even if I don't always have time to respond.
Paul
I think Paul D. speaks for many of us with his statement, " I appreciate the efforts of those who post here and draw inspiration from their images and insights, even if I don't always have time to respond."
I totally agree. Thanks to all those that do have the time to post and comment, it is always appreciated.
I like CANP because those who post here tend to do so regularly. As for myself, I have a lot of different things knocking on my door at the moment so I've mostly been lurking the past few months. There have been a lot of great Yosemite photos here lately.
Way back, there was a period of a few months when I decided to lurk less and post more. However even when someone posts a worthwhile subject about California, if only one or two others bother to post, why bother? A lack of critical mass to make a worthwhile discussion. The web has an endless list of forums people and companies started that never gained critical mass and have been forever stale and ignored. Web forum creators too often think alot of sub-forums is a better structure but that inevitably results in low visibility and lack of interest in many. People simply dislike forums without activity. One cure is to combine forums and I think that ought to be done on this board including the regionals.
I appreciate your honesty and agree with some of the points you mentioned. And I think I know where you are coming from with respects to sub forums and critical mass.
However I found things quite different on the RMNP regional forum for example which covers an area with a lot less ppl. There is simply more participation all around. And as a native Californian who moved to CO then back this begs the question in my mind why not 'more' input here. And I appreciate some of the CANPers who answered above and gave their take on things.
It seems funny to me in that Californians are known for speaking their mind almost to a fault. Yet the quieter PNWNP and RMNP ppl seem to have a lot more to say on their respective boards. And I don't know if there is any one simple answer that anybody could point and say 'see this is why.' It just is what it is.
Whatever our individual takes are on the matter, I do think many could relate with the title of the post. I personally like the regional forums as I get to talk with my local photographer friends who share common interests and ideas like where/when to shoot a CA scene. It also provides a chance to meet up with other locals which I have already done after 5 months of moving here from CO. And I have plans to meet more of the folks I have met here. I couldn't really do that as well in a general forum like on FM where I also particate on occasion or on photo.net.
I guess I would just like to encourage others to share more of their stories and photos even if they are not necessarily earth shattering. Part of it is just being human and more real with each other I think. For example there was a thread on the PNWNP a while back about 'what do you do when you are in a slump photographically?'
Either way I think the regional forums add value on NPN. I think CANP will pick up soon once we get some more weather. And Spring isn't too far away. In CO I had to wait until July to see wildflowers.
I will say, I'd probably be around more if my time included emptying pitchers of beer as seen in the attached photos. :)