Very illuminating comments, many thanks. The colouration is correct on the Cretzschmar's at time of exposure, but this bird did darken up as the light swung around. This shot was taken at 9.27am. At this location it’s a dead cert. that I’ll get Cretzschmar's, must try for them when in semi shadow in the next month or so.
It’s for comments such as these, that I don’t manipulate my images, and how I learn.
If you look at the holly leaves they are no far off the correct colour, perhaps a touch pale?
A species I have never seen so cannot comment on the coloration but your image does look like my reference book plates, the three "grey headed" buntings are paler than our Chaffinch which I think people are trying to compare it against
Put quite simply the image IS overexposed... look at the histogram reproduced here... the red marks where the tones are... pull the black point down and raise the mid tones slightly and the quality of the image improves no end... a bit too central for my taste but bang on the centre AF point....but a nice record shot.
Drop the gamma to 60 and it looks fine . The bird could do to be up a bit and tothe left - easily done with cropping. A little USM would help too.
Why flip by the way ? Always confuses me that !
JR
Firstly re exposure, I can only repeat what I said above, this is exactly as it was, and yes the light was harsh. I’ve compared to other shots which I have taken of this species, and as in all species they do change due to the lighting.
I know that I could have easily have pulled it back to what most would have considered correct, but that wasn’t how it was, besides I really wanted feedback. Basically I follow the maxim, “that if it looks generally right, then it usually is”, and I try to capture what it was like at that instant of time, without putting my own interpretation onto it.
Re cropping, again it is posted full frame deliberately, to get feed back, and yes, the focus was set to the centre of the display, for a good reason, but I never recall this ever being questioned as to why.
At this location I regularly get three species coming in, Rüppels Warbler, Black-Eared Wheatear and of course, Cretzschmar's Bunting there was also one other infrequent visitor a Blue Rock Thrush. All these species are different sizes, and range from being nearly totally black to light fawn which you see above. All were coming in at different places/times, so I just didn’t have time to change focusing points as not only species but poses were changing, so I just compromised and went for the centre, that way I always knew where the focusing point was.
You really have to experience the lighting you get when on one of the Greek islands, it really is unbelievable, we here in the UK/Europe just don’t experience it and its effect.
In case it isn’t obvious, I don’t post for plaudits, but to hopefully learn, which I invariably do. I think that when an image is posted then it can be a two way traffic re learning.
I have also been asked, why I don’t reply a second time to a post, particularly my own, its simple, by replying you invariable end up making excuses for any short falls in an image/comment, and I’m not into making excuse’s.
Re flipping, its simple, only the photographer themselves know all the actual factors involved, when the image was taken, and I always look at flipping the image, as sometimes it just looks better compositionally. I believe it is something to do with the way we read, from left to right, and without realising it, we just prefer to see things looking to the right.
I once sent a set of images to a competition in the Far East, all facing towards the right, and bombed out. The following year, I sent the same images to the same competition, but facing towards the left, and they all got in, and one even got a medal, you figure it out ??
I have checked this species out, colour wise you appear to be spot on however I stand by saying you are overexposed, when using film we would compensate depending on the light and I do not see any reason why we should not when using digital.... Our eyes can often decieve particularly in bright clear mediteranean sunlight, I always find that I have to compensate, often quite dramatically, when I am in north Africa.
By pulling the black point in Photoshops levels you improve the contrast, then by raising the mid point slider ever so slightly you can maintain your percieved image.
I certainly believe that that slight mod to the processing would raise this from an image I would dismiss to one where I would look a lot more closely at....
Re “then why dismiss advice?” I don’t, quite the contrary, I value every comment made.
Invariably I post with a specific reason behind each image, and I think you realise that it isn’t for plaudits, that is relatively easy to achieve, I’m just not interested in them.
If you notice, I don’t specify what camera I use, I don’t think it is that necessary, it’s the person behind it, which is. I try to get people to think/question, and yes I know that I fail, many just aren’t that interested.
I look at an image and try to see what was trying to be achieved, not what was. In other words, pre exposure, far too many people/photographers rely today on technology to correct things. By the way, I’m not in anyway anti technology
Far too many people in life are blinkered to their everyday activities, I just think it is a good idea to question things occasionally.
Ray
Not sure about your explanation of the reason for flipping !. What would the Chinese do then.?
You say you need the shots to be as you see them etc etc with little after work, so why flip them ??
beats me.
Cheers
JR
Posted by Mark sellings on March 4, 2009 at 10:43 AM
Hi Ray,
Image seems too light/overexposed to me, or it's shot in bright sunlight which is a light I find too harsh aesthetically for most subjects, but that's a personal taste. I find the vegetation too distracting from the bird - its a fine line between 'boas' and including some environment, but doesn't quite work for me - shame as its a nice pose of the bird and a good record shot nonetheless. Re: flipping images I do find that sometimes it does make an image more pleasing to the eye, funny that.
btw, you quote "it isn’t for plaudits, that is relatively easy to achieve" - I wish I found it that easy!
Forget all the technical’s, let the Chinese do whatever rocks their boat, just try it. Copy an image into say word, and then flip it, and see what happens when compared to the original image, as Mark says sometimes it improves an image and sometimes it doesn’t, but it is always worth exploring. Flipping the shot in no way alters the truth of the image, just the aesthetics.
Besides what’s the problem, it’s only one persons opinion, which can be accepted for what it is, or discarded.
Mark, re taking images high on the “Wow” scale, it becomes easier with experience, you start to see where there are possibilities, and where there aren’t, for example aesthetically pleasing perches, potential lighting etc.. One of the best ways to learn what works and doesn’t, I think is to view an image, open up a word document and comment as to what works for you, then look, if you so wish at other comments. I think this can help to fine tune your eye. As I do this, I’m sure that this it is why on occasions I’m pointing out points others don’t, then invariably my comments get commented on.
Discussion
13 repliesFrederic
It’s for comments such as these, that I don’t manipulate my images, and how I learn.
If you look at the holly leaves they are no far off the correct colour, perhaps a touch pale?
A species I have never seen so cannot comment on the coloration but your image does look like my reference book plates, the three "grey headed" buntings are paler than our Chaffinch which I think people are trying to compare it against
Why flip by the way ? Always confuses me that !
JR
Firstly re exposure, I can only repeat what I said above, this is exactly as it was, and yes the light was harsh. I’ve compared to other shots which I have taken of this species, and as in all species they do change due to the lighting.
I know that I could have easily have pulled it back to what most would have considered correct, but that wasn’t how it was, besides I really wanted feedback. Basically I follow the maxim, “that if it looks generally right, then it usually is”, and I try to capture what it was like at that instant of time, without putting my own interpretation onto it.
Re cropping, again it is posted full frame deliberately, to get feed back, and yes, the focus was set to the centre of the display, for a good reason, but I never recall this ever being questioned as to why.
At this location I regularly get three species coming in, Rüppels Warbler, Black-Eared Wheatear and of course, Cretzschmar's Bunting there was also one other infrequent visitor a Blue Rock Thrush. All these species are different sizes, and range from being nearly totally black to light fawn which you see above. All were coming in at different places/times, so I just didn’t have time to change focusing points as not only species but poses were changing, so I just compromised and went for the centre, that way I always knew where the focusing point was.
You really have to experience the lighting you get when on one of the Greek islands, it really is unbelievable, we here in the UK/Europe just don’t experience it and its effect.
In case it isn’t obvious, I don’t post for plaudits, but to hopefully learn, which I invariably do. I think that when an image is posted then it can be a two way traffic re learning.
I have also been asked, why I don’t reply a second time to a post, particularly my own, its simple, by replying you invariable end up making excuses for any short falls in an image/comment, and I’m not into making excuse’s.
Re flipping, its simple, only the photographer themselves know all the actual factors involved, when the image was taken, and I always look at flipping the image, as sometimes it just looks better compositionally. I believe it is something to do with the way we read, from left to right, and without realising it, we just prefer to see things looking to the right.
I once sent a set of images to a competition in the Far East, all facing towards the right, and bombed out. The following year, I sent the same images to the same competition, but facing towards the left, and they all got in, and one even got a medal, you figure it out ??
Hope this explains a few things.
If you post to learn, then why dismiss advice?
I have checked this species out, colour wise you appear to be spot on however I stand by saying you are overexposed, when using film we would compensate depending on the light and I do not see any reason why we should not when using digital.... Our eyes can often decieve particularly in bright clear mediteranean sunlight, I always find that I have to compensate, often quite dramatically, when I am in north Africa.
By pulling the black point in Photoshops levels you improve the contrast, then by raising the mid point slider ever so slightly you can maintain your percieved image.
I certainly believe that that slight mod to the processing would raise this from an image I would dismiss to one where I would look a lot more closely at....
All the best
Phil
Re “then why dismiss advice?” I don’t, quite the contrary, I value every comment made.
Invariably I post with a specific reason behind each image, and I think you realise that it isn’t for plaudits, that is relatively easy to achieve, I’m just not interested in them.
If you notice, I don’t specify what camera I use, I don’t think it is that necessary, it’s the person behind it, which is. I try to get people to think/question, and yes I know that I fail, many just aren’t that interested.
I look at an image and try to see what was trying to be achieved, not what was. In other words, pre exposure, far too many people/photographers rely today on technology to correct things. By the way, I’m not in anyway anti technology
Far too many people in life are blinkered to their everyday activities, I just think it is a good idea to question things occasionally.
Thanks for the reply.
Ray
Not sure about your explanation of the reason for flipping !. What would the Chinese do then.?
You say you need the shots to be as you see them etc etc with little after work, so why flip them ??
beats me.
Cheers
JR
Image seems too light/overexposed to me, or it's shot in bright sunlight which is a light I find too harsh aesthetically for most subjects, but that's a personal taste. I find the vegetation too distracting from the bird - its a fine line between 'boas' and including some environment, but doesn't quite work for me - shame as its a nice pose of the bird and a good record shot nonetheless. Re: flipping images I do find that sometimes it does make an image more pleasing to the eye, funny that.
btw, you quote "it isn’t for plaudits, that is relatively easy to achieve" - I wish I found it that easy!
Mark
Forget all the technical’s, let the Chinese do whatever rocks their boat, just try it. Copy an image into say word, and then flip it, and see what happens when compared to the original image, as Mark says sometimes it improves an image and sometimes it doesn’t, but it is always worth exploring. Flipping the shot in no way alters the truth of the image, just the aesthetics.
Besides what’s the problem, it’s only one persons opinion, which can be accepted for what it is, or discarded.
Mark, re taking images high on the “Wow” scale, it becomes easier with experience, you start to see where there are possibilities, and where there aren’t, for example aesthetically pleasing perches, potential lighting etc.. One of the best ways to learn what works and doesn’t, I think is to view an image, open up a word document and comment as to what works for you, then look, if you so wish at other comments. I think this can help to fine tune your eye. As I do this, I’m sure that this it is why on occasions I’m pointing out points others don’t, then invariably my comments get commented on.