Posted by Peter Cairns on March 27, 2009 at 6:10 AM
You may have followed the story of Alladale Estate's quest to create an ecosystem-based wilderness reserve in northern Scotland. Two moose (or European elk) are already in situ where I photographed this curious young male at very close quarters!
The reference to 'on the loose' relates to whether these are captive or not. They are in a 500-acre enclosure so I would say yes they are. But what about if the whole estate was fenced - 25,000 acres - still captive? Not wanting to start yet another debate on this but worth offering the context before someone else does!
Interesting and amusing (IMO) image.. like the low PoV you have gone for... the clouds certainly help, had the sky been uniform I don't think it would have worked as well... only minor nit is the 'apparently' missing ear....
Not going to enter the captive v non captive debate, in so many of these cases where the area is large it will always be arguable
Posted by Mark sellings on March 27, 2009 at 6:27 AM
Don't know re the captive debate but a very amusing shot - made me smile when his face loomed out at me! Can't stop my self doing an impression of him saying hello
Nice photo, and aspect, but I find the 'missing' ear awkward.
If the fenced area exceeds there normal range, supplying an adequate and appropiate environment which will renew naturally, and they don't rely on any human intervention from release to death ... captive becomes a tenious arguement regardless of the boundary wall material.
Posted by Dawn Monrose on March 27, 2009 at 7:33 AM
Great shot, excellent pose, although I agree about the missing ear.
Captive or not? Not sure really, does the size of enclosure matter if it's still an enclosure? Though I would also agree with Tom's post above, perhaps it's all relative.
Posted by Matt Peaster on March 27, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Nice pose from the young Moose. A sense of movement adds to the image rather than a potrait shot. Wide angle lens helps to emphasise it's environment.
I think the 're-wilding' at Allendale debate will run and run. Personally I fell that if there's a fence to create an enclosure then the animal / s can't eber be truely classed as wild. Wild for me means 'wild' so the animal, if it wishes can migrate to a new area if it needs to, but possibly more importantly, other animals can migrate into the area so that there are fluxes in the population and new blood in the breeding cycle. Tom's point is interesting though regarding athe size of the enclosure ... but it's still an enclosure.
The perimeter fence also acts a s a barrier for the other animals - red deer, roe deer etc so that what was part of a wider range is now limited, again with neighbouring populations. Some animals migrate over large areas during the rut or breeding season. It would be interesting to watch the 'wild' red deer's reaction to the fence with the 'captive' reds inside the fence.
That said, presumably the animals can exhibit 'wild' traits in such a large area but as the image shows, using a wide angle, the moose aren't unfortunately wild.
Nice picture, I like the low angle. Alladale is obviously a safari park at the moment but you have to start somewhere. Are they making any money yet and are the neighbours looking like they might join in?
Posted by Adam Seward on March 27, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Works for me Peter! I think the ear thing fits with the whole quirkiness of the image (close-up wide angle, sloping horizon, cocked leg), which is what I like about it.
Matt's point of the perimeter fence stopping animals coming in is an interesting one and definately worthy of further consideration in the wild verse captive debate, that said I am not sure if the presence of (or lack of) other animals makes the subject any more (or less) wild, it would just limit its behaviour - but my "minds jury" is still out on this aspect for by wild in this instance I think we mean its life-style/cycle rather than its behaviour.
I really quite like it, certainly has a quizical look about him and comical for the whole image. Glad I don't have an amusing face like these guys (i hope).
Nice use of wide angle and the right choice from what I presume was a sequence (front leg position tells us it is on the move - or you were about to be kicked?!).
Yes it is captive even if the fenced area enclosed is 25,000 acres - can the animals disperse and start new colonies? If the answer is no then ecologically it is a captive. That isn't detrimental from a photographic PoV - the photographer still has to work hard to get natural behaviour. Red deer is a popular subject on this forum but very few images carry a (C) even though many originate from Bradgate or Richmond parks.
In a sense it comes down to semantics - is 'naturalised' another word that could be used?
Anyway, different image - cool.
C
Posted by Danny Green on March 29, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Ah Pete
Me again as you can see I don't have a lot to do on a Sunday evening, I like the topics you have raised I think this forum could do with more of them IMHO. Andy P raised an interesting point today and said Etosha in Namibia is fenced all around so does that make all the animals in this beautiful park captive? Great image by the way.
Discussion
12 repliesThe reference to 'on the loose' relates to whether these are captive or not. They are in a 500-acre enclosure so I would say yes they are. But what about if the whole estate was fenced - 25,000 acres - still captive? Not wanting to start yet another debate on this but worth offering the context before someone else does!
Canon 1dsII, 17-40mm lens. ISO 200.
Peter Cairns
www.northshots.com
Not going to enter the captive v non captive debate, in so many of these cases where the area is large it will always be arguable
Mark
If the fenced area exceeds there normal range, supplying an adequate and appropiate environment which will renew naturally, and they don't rely on any human intervention from release to death ... captive becomes a tenious arguement regardless of the boundary wall material.
Captive or not? Not sure really, does the size of enclosure matter if it's still an enclosure? Though I would also agree with Tom's post above, perhaps it's all relative.
I think the 're-wilding' at Allendale debate will run and run. Personally I fell that if there's a fence to create an enclosure then the animal / s can't eber be truely classed as wild. Wild for me means 'wild' so the animal, if it wishes can migrate to a new area if it needs to, but possibly more importantly, other animals can migrate into the area so that there are fluxes in the population and new blood in the breeding cycle. Tom's point is interesting though regarding athe size of the enclosure ... but it's still an enclosure.
The perimeter fence also acts a s a barrier for the other animals - red deer, roe deer etc so that what was part of a wider range is now limited, again with neighbouring populations. Some animals migrate over large areas during the rut or breeding season. It would be interesting to watch the 'wild' red deer's reaction to the fence with the 'captive' reds inside the fence.
That said, presumably the animals can exhibit 'wild' traits in such a large area but as the image shows, using a wide angle, the moose aren't unfortunately wild.
Good to pose the question Pete
Matt
A topic for another date.
Drew
Nice use of wide angle and the right choice from what I presume was a sequence (front leg position tells us it is on the move - or you were about to be kicked?!).
Yes it is captive even if the fenced area enclosed is 25,000 acres - can the animals disperse and start new colonies? If the answer is no then ecologically it is a captive. That isn't detrimental from a photographic PoV - the photographer still has to work hard to get natural behaviour. Red deer is a popular subject on this forum but very few images carry a (C) even though many originate from Bradgate or Richmond parks.
In a sense it comes down to semantics - is 'naturalised' another word that could be used?
Anyway, different image - cool.
C
Me again as you can see I don't have a lot to do on a Sunday evening, I like the topics you have raised I think this forum could do with more of them IMHO. Andy P raised an interesting point today and said Etosha in Namibia is fenced all around so does that make all the animals in this beautiful park captive? Great image by the way.
Danny