I just bought colormunki and am having problems with it, it's probably my fault but after three days of trying to sort it out I thought I would contact COLORMUNKI.COM
I keep getting "internet unable to connect..."
My problem, in case anyone else can help is:
I have, for example, a gannet pic, nice and bright and in fact I am able to get a nice print off that now, same as screen but, using exactly the same paper/calibration on a darker pic, (bluebell woodland scene,) I absolutely cannot get it right, it's not the bluebell blues that's the problem, it's the whole scene. Looks good on screen but prints too dark, looks like it needs a touch of contrast besides brightening, just looks dull and muddy.
If I go into proof set up>custom> and put the correct paper into "Device to simulate", perceptual...soon as I tick "Simulate Paper" the woodland scene shows exactly the dull horrible print I actually get, if I change to Absolute colormetric instead of perceptual, it is marginally better but....still prints muddy pic and yet in this same "PROOF SET UP" menu, gannet shows well and prints what Proof set up shows.
I have only been checking it in proof setup, don't know where to go from there so I go back to "Print with profile etc etc, same as always, yes I turn off all colour management but, light pic like gannet prints perfectly, darker woodland scene, looks great on screen but prints lousy.
I simply cannot think what to do now, have totally run out of ideas, I am not fully fledged when it comes to knowing all the tweaks available. Could be a 'return to sender' !!
Colin,
make a duplicate of your image and set both next to each other,
go to the proof setup, and pick your paper on one of your images.
So one is in proof mode and one is not
Now adjust the one in proof mode as close as you can to the other.
What you see in proof setup is actually how it will look like on paper.
Wim, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think this is a good plan of attack. What *should* be occurring is that the print matches what Colin is seeing in Photoshop. It is not.
Ideally, the proofing should match the print which should match the image in PS. If one of these has to give, it is the proofing since if everything else in the workflow is correct, the appearance of the proof is more or less irrelevant.
We still need to address the issue of why Colin's prints do not match what he is seeing on-screen, proofing aside.
Colin, I've been thinking about your problem and I am not real sure where the problem is. First question: before you used the Colormunki, did things work? Second question: Have you tried to recalibrate your system, starting from scratch and being really anal about reading the directions? Sorry if that last sounds sarcastic but I just went through fixing some Colormunki print issues with someone who was doing something wierd. Make sure that when you calibrate both the print and monitor that you are doing so under neutral lighting, not industrial flourescent lighting being used by the referenced individual.
For the profiles, there should be two of them. One is for the print and one is for the monitor. Make sure you don't overwrite the monitor profile with the print profile using the same name and check you haven't accidently switched profiles.
When you created the print profile, did you have all printer profiles turned off? You don't want any color management whatsoever - just the straight print coming through to use with the Colormunki.
I am going to guess that the problem was with the printer profile which you created as there may have been color management applied somewhere in the process, but that is a guess.
Thanx for the detailed reply Don. The first illogical gremlin is the fact that one fairly high key pic, a close up shot in good light of a gannet on the nest among almost white rocks, shows correctly in proof setup and prints same but the darker woodland pic shows muddy in proof setup and prints muddy. I can't help feeling there's a clue here but can't see it, both pics look spot on in Photoshop of course.
Before I do anything else I am going to do as you suggest and start again from scratch. I know I didn't mix paper profiles up, I could see that might happen and wrote on them as they came out of the printer. It all points to re-calibrating doesn't it. Hopefully I will get back to you saying all's well.
Printer profiles actually work in two directions: There's the "to the printer" direction and the "proofing" direction. So as you say, you should go through your procedures and make sure you're making the profile correctly. But you might find that your profile is doing the best it can. We at least know that your proofing direction is working correctly - it is accurately showing you what your image is going to look like when it gets printed out.
So Wim's idea above was to make use of this ability - view your proofed image, and if it's too dark and muddy, then adjust it in Photoshop (adjust the proofed image) to make it look better (brighten it up.)
The difference between your two images is that one has a lot of darker tones to it.
Are you printing on matte paper by any chance? A Colormunki might not draw out as much shadow detail on matte paper as would other spectrophotometers. It has something to do with the way the rough surface of matte paper diffuses light instead of directly reflecting it like a gloss or semi gloss surface does. I've even heard of people spraying a clear coating onto their matte printer targets in order to draw out a bit more black out of their target readings (but I would not necessarily recommend that you try that.) We use a SpectraScan table that uses a polarizing filter to draw more detail from matte finishes.
With the Colormunki you might want to wait longer than the 10 minutes it requires before reading the target. It gives the ink a better chance to cure, makes the profile more accurate. Print and proof using perceptual, with black point compensation on, in order to get more shadow detail.
UPDATE; I attempted to calibrate monitor by going through 'advanced' instead of 'simple' or whatever it was called (can't remember now!) and it asks to brighten my monitor but my monitor is already at 100, I cannot brighten it any more of course. It is a CRT flatscreen monitor and may be past its sell by date ! Same applied to contrast.
That is odd. If your monitor is too dark, then the prints would be too light (you'll be compensating for the darkness of the monitor by lightening what you see).
Now I am really confused as to what the issue is...
By any chance, can you get access to a second system that works properly and try the ColorMunki? I'm wondering if it is the ColorMunki.
Hi Dan, thanks for your help, I am going to spend the weekend on this and take notes of exactly what is going wrong, I might even find the answer myself but if not, at least I will be able to state more clearly what's going on. Colormunki have also got back to me asking helpful questions so, "watch this space" as they say eh.
I have now been right through the process again with the same result and so
I am thinking that the answer is a simple tick in the right box or something
similar.
Here is exactly what I did today.
1st; PROFILE MY DISPLAY. LCD SCREEN (which is the only option available as
my monitor is a CRT screen, does that make any difference?) Took "Advanced"
option not simple. Ticked both OPTIMIZE BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST & LUMINANCE
LEVEL. KEPT D65 DEFAULT.
Had to place Colormunki on extreme side of screen because of the monitor's
menus that appear in the centre.
Set contrast display to max 100> green tick was already there but while I
was making sure of my next move, the green tick disappeared and level went
below optimum. Suddenly the CM was changing the screen's brightness/contrast
and not settling so I went 'back', waited a minute and then clicked back and
green tick was there again and I ticked next before I lost it again. Next
was brightness and this was about 7 bars under optimum but as brightness is
already at 100 I could not brighten it for the green tick and so moved on.
Colour scrolls...finish...there was a very slight screen difference.
--------------------------------------------------
2ND; PROFILE MY PRINTER.
New profile-Permajet Gloss paper.....all ok to the end of process then tick
to configure to Adobe Creative Suite & QuarkXPress but I don't get the
option for Adobe Photoshop CS2.
--------------------------------------
Opened woodland pic in Photo Shop CS2 and checked,
colour settings>custom>Adobe RGB 1998, CMYK= Web coated (swop) v2.
Clicked Edit>convert to profile>destination space default is sRGB iec
61966-2.1
I printed the darker woodland scene again, still too dark, I would say almost one stop too dark. I printed the high key Gannet pic and in fact it too is darker, shows more in the white plumage really but it is darker although I wouldn't call this a full stop darker.
Colin there is no need to convert your image to sRGB. (that shoudn't really matter for the most part though)
The option to configure the adobe suite and quark doesn't really matter either. ( i leave it ticked off )
When printing, make sure you set Photosohop manages color, on and select the profile that you created with the colormunki for that particular paper.
In the printer driver make sure color management is set off (you should be using the exact same settings as when you created the profile)
Thanx Wim, yes I do set Photosohop manages color and turn all colour management off. Interestingly a friend of mine who lives nearby had the same problem, he has PS CS3 and says if he clicks FILE>PRINT> MATCH PRINT COLOUR, HE GETS A BOX UP WITH A THUMBNAIL OF HIS PICK AND WHEN HE CLICKS MATCH PRINT COLOUR, IT SOLVES IT. Now I might be wrong but it would seem to me that as soon as he does that, he negates all his colour calibrations and in effect discards colormunki ?
Anyway I am going to look into it, I have CS2.
There's a glimmer of sunlight suddenly appearing among our gloomy skies and I want to get among some hoards of hirundines that are skimming over the water in a nearby reservoir so, will look at this again later.
Discussion
11 repliesI keep getting "internet unable to connect..."
My problem, in case anyone else can help is:
I have, for example, a gannet pic, nice and bright and in fact I am able to get a nice print off that now, same as screen but, using exactly the same paper/calibration on a darker pic, (bluebell woodland scene,) I absolutely cannot get it right, it's not the bluebell blues that's the problem, it's the whole scene. Looks good on screen but prints too dark, looks like it needs a touch of contrast besides brightening, just looks dull and muddy.
If I go into proof set up>custom> and put the correct paper into "Device to simulate", perceptual...soon as I tick "Simulate Paper" the woodland scene shows exactly the dull horrible print I actually get, if I change to Absolute colormetric instead of perceptual, it is marginally better but....still prints muddy pic and yet in this same "PROOF SET UP" menu, gannet shows well and prints what Proof set up shows.
I have only been checking it in proof setup, don't know where to go from there so I go back to "Print with profile etc etc, same as always, yes I turn off all colour management but, light pic like gannet prints perfectly, darker woodland scene, looks great on screen but prints lousy.
I simply cannot think what to do now, have totally run out of ideas, I am not fully fledged when it comes to knowing all the tweaks available. Could be a 'return to sender' !!
Ho Hum..
make a duplicate of your image and set both next to each other,
go to the proof setup, and pick your paper on one of your images.
So one is in proof mode and one is not
Now adjust the one in proof mode as close as you can to the other.
What you see in proof setup is actually how it will look like on paper.
Hope this made sense
Wim
Colin
Ideally, the proofing should match the print which should match the image in PS. If one of these has to give, it is the proofing since if everything else in the workflow is correct, the appearance of the proof is more or less irrelevant.
We still need to address the issue of why Colin's prints do not match what he is seeing on-screen, proofing aside.
Colin, I've been thinking about your problem and I am not real sure where the problem is. First question: before you used the Colormunki, did things work? Second question: Have you tried to recalibrate your system, starting from scratch and being really anal about reading the directions? Sorry if that last sounds sarcastic but I just went through fixing some Colormunki print issues with someone who was doing something wierd. Make sure that when you calibrate both the print and monitor that you are doing so under neutral lighting, not industrial flourescent lighting being used by the referenced individual.
For the profiles, there should be two of them. One is for the print and one is for the monitor. Make sure you don't overwrite the monitor profile with the print profile using the same name and check you haven't accidently switched profiles.
When you created the print profile, did you have all printer profiles turned off? You don't want any color management whatsoever - just the straight print coming through to use with the Colormunki.
I am going to guess that the problem was with the printer profile which you created as there may have been color management applied somewhere in the process, but that is a guess.
Before I do anything else I am going to do as you suggest and start again from scratch. I know I didn't mix paper profiles up, I could see that might happen and wrote on them as they came out of the printer. It all points to re-calibrating doesn't it. Hopefully I will get back to you saying all's well.
So Wim's idea above was to make use of this ability - view your proofed image, and if it's too dark and muddy, then adjust it in Photoshop (adjust the proofed image) to make it look better (brighten it up.)
The difference between your two images is that one has a lot of darker tones to it.
Are you printing on matte paper by any chance? A Colormunki might not draw out as much shadow detail on matte paper as would other spectrophotometers. It has something to do with the way the rough surface of matte paper diffuses light instead of directly reflecting it like a gloss or semi gloss surface does. I've even heard of people spraying a clear coating onto their matte printer targets in order to draw out a bit more black out of their target readings (but I would not necessarily recommend that you try that.) We use a SpectraScan table that uses a polarizing filter to draw more detail from matte finishes.
With the Colormunki you might want to wait longer than the 10 minutes it requires before reading the target. It gives the ink a better chance to cure, makes the profile more accurate. Print and proof using perceptual, with black point compensation on, in order to get more shadow detail.
Now I am really confused as to what the issue is...
By any chance, can you get access to a second system that works properly and try the ColorMunki? I'm wondering if it is the ColorMunki.
I am thinking that the answer is a simple tick in the right box or something
similar.
Here is exactly what I did today.
1st; PROFILE MY DISPLAY. LCD SCREEN (which is the only option available as
my monitor is a CRT screen, does that make any difference?) Took "Advanced"
option not simple. Ticked both OPTIMIZE BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST & LUMINANCE
LEVEL. KEPT D65 DEFAULT.
Had to place Colormunki on extreme side of screen because of the monitor's
menus that appear in the centre.
Set contrast display to max 100> green tick was already there but while I
was making sure of my next move, the green tick disappeared and level went
below optimum. Suddenly the CM was changing the screen's brightness/contrast
and not settling so I went 'back', waited a minute and then clicked back and
green tick was there again and I ticked next before I lost it again. Next
was brightness and this was about 7 bars under optimum but as brightness is
already at 100 I could not brighten it for the green tick and so moved on.
Colour scrolls...finish...there was a very slight screen difference.
--------------------------------------------------
2ND; PROFILE MY PRINTER.
New profile-Permajet Gloss paper.....all ok to the end of process then tick
to configure to Adobe Creative Suite & QuarkXPress but I don't get the
option for Adobe Photoshop CS2.
--------------------------------------
Opened woodland pic in Photo Shop CS2 and checked,
colour settings>custom>Adobe RGB 1998, CMYK= Web coated (swop) v2.
Clicked Edit>convert to profile>destination space default is sRGB iec
61966-2.1
I printed the darker woodland scene again, still too dark, I would say almost one stop too dark. I printed the high key Gannet pic and in fact it too is darker, shows more in the white plumage really but it is darker although I wouldn't call this a full stop darker.
The option to configure the adobe suite and quark doesn't really matter either. ( i leave it ticked off )
When printing, make sure you set Photosohop manages color, on and select the profile that you created with the colormunki for that particular paper.
In the printer driver make sure color management is set off (you should be using the exact same settings as when you created the profile)
Wim.
Anyway I am going to look into it, I have CS2.
There's a glimmer of sunlight suddenly appearing among our gloomy skies and I want to get among some hoards of hirundines that are skimming over the water in a nearby reservoir so, will look at this again later.