I've been playing with bracketing for HDR and overlaying.
I'm shooting a Nikon D300 which allows white balance changes automatically with one exposure, ie multiple shots are generated with one picture with different mier (sp?). I also like the pre-programmed exposure feature for regular bracketing which allows one to just shoot the photos in rapid succession without manipulating the +- button.
In some instance it would appear the WB expousre changes and overlaying generates a photo similar to "vivid" setting on the camera.
Does anyone know the general programing for "vivid" in camera?
If the photo generated as such is similar to "vivid" it would seem to be a waste of memory and time to do WB exposure because "vivid" can be done in processing. Auto WB exposure in the Nikon is either shifted towards more blue or more amber from the initiating photo.
Also, any general suggestions on the exposure spread for HDR, or is it an indivudal picture situation?
In closing, I've gotten some intersting results with bracketing, overlaying, and sometimes the use of the afrementioned with a neutral gradient filter. Seems to be a problem with HDR and too much color. I have read where HDR, especially when overdone, has produced "cartoonish" results. But color sells. Individual preferences again????
I'm using Photomatix for HDR and overlaying.
Thanks in advance for any constructive comments.
Larry
Posted by Sean Bagshaw on May 12, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Hi Larry,
I shoot Canon stuff, so I'm not familiar with the vivid setting in the D300. However, your first question is dependent on whether you are shooting your images in RAW or as jpegs. RAW capture will give you the most latitude in any aggressive processing and I have read that many people feel that their Photomatix results are enhanced by using a RAW workflow. If you do shoot RAW, then in camera processing such as vivid and white balance are irrelevant because no adjustments are made to the file until it is processed later in RAW conversion software. If you are shooting jpegs, then you can decide to have the camera make adjustments for vivid processing, white balance, contrast, sharpening and so on, but I almost always prefer taking control of those types of decisions myself at a later point.
In terms of bracketing, your are correct that it depends on the specific light conditions and your goals for the final HDR output. In fairly narrow dynamic range situations three exposures, one stop apart is often plenty. For very high dynamic range scenes it is often necessary to take many exposures spread out over six or eight stops of bracketing to get a good result.
Yes, I forgot some data.
The D300 White Balance bracketing has to be done in JPEG. That's why I asked about the math the camera does to produce "vivid".
Photomatix will "overlay" JPEG
But I use RAW for bracketing by exposure.
One question, Sean, does one guage the "very high dynamic range" scene? By just looking at the scene, by looking at the photo produced (histogram) or what? Most photos will have more than a digital can capture in one exposure. Very high would be, for example, a white sand beach with mountains in the background with many colors and shadows??? It would be wise to take 7 or so photos +/- 3??? Perhaps do that all the time if one likes the shot, eh? Of course, that eats up card memory. More cards, more batteries--it never stops..
I agree with Sean, for HDR, always shoot in RAW. You have two methods to shoot your image, manual or aperture priority. If you shoot in A priority, you are only going to change the shutter speed. You should also do a WB preset to ensure that the WB stays consistent as well. Check your histogram to ensure you are bracketing for a good image for shadows, highlights and midtones. I would not do overlaying in the D300. I shoot with the D300 and I do not do this. I would also ensure you use a cable release or timer to help avoid camera shake. Use a tripod...yes can be hand held but not the recommend technique. Using AP mode make sure you set your camera up for CH (continues high) and keep the shutter pressed until all frames have been captured.
If you have a challenge with understanding stops from a low contrast scene versus a high contrast scene, then AP mode is the best route for you.
Most of my images I have shot in AP mode with 5-9 exposures depending upon the contrast of the scene. I have seen most contrast scene's I am using 1 stop EV. Even so, I still use only 3 frames to make my HDR. I do use the full version of photomatrix, then adjust as I need to in NX2 or ACR, then very little PP in CS4.
I also use D300 but never use the in-camera overlay. I use RAW, use high speed auto-bracketing (3 or 5 exposures depending on the range - check histogram to make sure), tripod mounted with cable release to minimize any movement in between, AP mode (to ensure same DOF) - post-processing either with 2 or 3 images..sometimes using photomatix , other time simple PS manual blending , sometimes a hybrid method. Hope this helps
I do the same as most of the above: D300, aperture priority, tripod, cable release, pre-set white balance, 5 images 1 stop apart, continuous high-speed shutter. Imported to Lightroom and stacked, then exported to Photomatix. Sometimes I will use all 5 frames, sometimes not.
In Photomatix, I generally shy away from Details Enhancer due to the over-the-top results. Sometimes I will use the Tone Compressor, but more often just the Image Blend mode, which seems to give more realistic results (although I don't believe this is technically a true HDR).
I too shoot only RAW for HDR. I do use an electronic release and tripod. However, I did not think of shooting CH (continuous high). I've been manually activating the shutter. So, for that, thanks.
I see several comments use only 2 or 3 exposures for HDR regardless of how many are taken.
Why? What is the sin in using 4,5 or 6?
I am not using "in camera overlay"--didn't even know it existed. I've just played with overlay from the WB-generated photos in Photomatix. Once again, it appears to generate photos, in my mind, similar to "vivid" in Nikon terminology. I know the WB bracketing feature is designed to used when the photo temp of light is not known. This bracket's a shot for the color temp, esp for flash and exiting light indoors. I've just played with it outdoors on flowers and some sunsets. Not sure if I'm really gaining anything, however, esp. since the camera requires JPEG format, not RAW.
Appreciate you comments. I'll archive this thread when it has run its course.
Here is why some people might shoot 5, but use only 2 or 3 shots, from what I understand. The D300, and probably other Nikons, only let you bracket by a maximum of 1-stop per exposure. So, if you want to shoot 0, -1, +1, that's fine. But you can't shoot 0, -2, +2 in a 3-shot bracket. If you want to use -2 and +2 exposures, you would have to shoot 0, -1, -2, +1, +2 in a 5-exposure bracket. Then, in your processing software, you would just choose the 0, -2, +2 shots.
Personally, I think you get better results using all 5 shots, with more realistic gradations between dark and light objects. I think some will probably disagree, however.
Like you, I didn't know about using CH mode for bracketing, but they mentioned it on an episode of the D-Town TV podcast. For you Nikon shooters out there, if you haven't seen it, you definitely need to check it out. It's fantastic.
Posted by Peter Barnes on May 12, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Larry, I don't know why you are bracketing White Balance. As I understand it Photomatix is designed to work with a series of different exposures, not a series of color temperature settings. I use the Photomatix recommendation to shoot at 3 exposures 2 Ev apart as a default, and this works 99% of the time. Occasionally I will wish that I used 5 exposures 2 Ev apart, usually in severely back lit situations. While I shoot in RAW, I keep the WB set to sunshine, and use aperture priority, so the only variant between shots is the time period of exposure.
I don't know why I tried this either but it led to an interesting finding, and one that has yet to be addressed on this thread.
A series of 9 photos generated with one shutter release went from amber WB to a more blue. Overlaying these in Photomatix revealed a photo which appeared to me to be very similar to "vivid" in Nikon terminology. Note: WB bracketing must be done in JPEG in the Nikon D300. The nice thing is that there is absolutely no ghosting or movement problems and, of course, can be done "hand held".
One of my original questions was if anyone knew how "vivid" was generated in camera in NX2. If the results are identical, or very close, then WB with overlay is a waste of time. If however they are different, it would provide another venue for a different way of looking at a photo.
Discussion
9 repliesI'm shooting a Nikon D300 which allows white balance changes automatically with one exposure, ie multiple shots are generated with one picture with different mier (sp?). I also like the pre-programmed exposure feature for regular bracketing which allows one to just shoot the photos in rapid succession without manipulating the +- button.
In some instance it would appear the WB expousre changes and overlaying generates a photo similar to "vivid" setting on the camera.
Does anyone know the general programing for "vivid" in camera?
If the photo generated as such is similar to "vivid" it would seem to be a waste of memory and time to do WB exposure because "vivid" can be done in processing. Auto WB exposure in the Nikon is either shifted towards more blue or more amber from the initiating photo.
Also, any general suggestions on the exposure spread for HDR, or is it an indivudal picture situation?
In closing, I've gotten some intersting results with bracketing, overlaying, and sometimes the use of the afrementioned with a neutral gradient filter. Seems to be a problem with HDR and too much color. I have read where HDR, especially when overdone, has produced "cartoonish" results. But color sells. Individual preferences again????
I'm using Photomatix for HDR and overlaying.
Thanks in advance for any constructive comments.
Larry
I shoot Canon stuff, so I'm not familiar with the vivid setting in the D300. However, your first question is dependent on whether you are shooting your images in RAW or as jpegs. RAW capture will give you the most latitude in any aggressive processing and I have read that many people feel that their Photomatix results are enhanced by using a RAW workflow. If you do shoot RAW, then in camera processing such as vivid and white balance are irrelevant because no adjustments are made to the file until it is processed later in RAW conversion software. If you are shooting jpegs, then you can decide to have the camera make adjustments for vivid processing, white balance, contrast, sharpening and so on, but I almost always prefer taking control of those types of decisions myself at a later point.
In terms of bracketing, your are correct that it depends on the specific light conditions and your goals for the final HDR output. In fairly narrow dynamic range situations three exposures, one stop apart is often plenty. For very high dynamic range scenes it is often necessary to take many exposures spread out over six or eight stops of bracketing to get a good result.
The D300 White Balance bracketing has to be done in JPEG. That's why I asked about the math the camera does to produce "vivid".
Photomatix will "overlay" JPEG
But I use RAW for bracketing by exposure.
One question, Sean, does one guage the "very high dynamic range" scene? By just looking at the scene, by looking at the photo produced (histogram) or what? Most photos will have more than a digital can capture in one exposure. Very high would be, for example, a white sand beach with mountains in the background with many colors and shadows??? It would be wise to take 7 or so photos +/- 3??? Perhaps do that all the time if one likes the shot, eh? Of course, that eats up card memory. More cards, more batteries--it never stops..
Larry
If you have a challenge with understanding stops from a low contrast scene versus a high contrast scene, then AP mode is the best route for you.
Most of my images I have shot in AP mode with 5-9 exposures depending upon the contrast of the scene. I have seen most contrast scene's I am using 1 stop EV. Even so, I still use only 3 frames to make my HDR. I do use the full version of photomatrix, then adjust as I need to in NX2 or ACR, then very little PP in CS4.
Hope that helps!!
In Photomatix, I generally shy away from Details Enhancer due to the over-the-top results. Sometimes I will use the Tone Compressor, but more often just the Image Blend mode, which seems to give more realistic results (although I don't believe this is technically a true HDR).
I too shoot only RAW for HDR. I do use an electronic release and tripod. However, I did not think of shooting CH (continuous high). I've been manually activating the shutter. So, for that, thanks.
I see several comments use only 2 or 3 exposures for HDR regardless of how many are taken.
Why? What is the sin in using 4,5 or 6?
I am not using "in camera overlay"--didn't even know it existed. I've just played with overlay from the WB-generated photos in Photomatix. Once again, it appears to generate photos, in my mind, similar to "vivid" in Nikon terminology. I know the WB bracketing feature is designed to used when the photo temp of light is not known. This bracket's a shot for the color temp, esp for flash and exiting light indoors. I've just played with it outdoors on flowers and some sunsets. Not sure if I'm really gaining anything, however, esp. since the camera requires JPEG format, not RAW.
Appreciate you comments. I'll archive this thread when it has run its course.
Larry
Personally, I think you get better results using all 5 shots, with more realistic gradations between dark and light objects. I think some will probably disagree, however.
Like you, I didn't know about using CH mode for bracketing, but they mentioned it on an episode of the D-Town TV podcast. For you Nikon shooters out there, if you haven't seen it, you definitely need to check it out. It's fantastic.
I don't know why I tried this either but it led to an interesting finding, and one that has yet to be addressed on this thread.
A series of 9 photos generated with one shutter release went from amber WB to a more blue. Overlaying these in Photomatix revealed a photo which appeared to me to be very similar to "vivid" in Nikon terminology. Note: WB bracketing must be done in JPEG in the Nikon D300. The nice thing is that there is absolutely no ghosting or movement problems and, of course, can be done "hand held".
One of my original questions was if anyone knew how "vivid" was generated in camera in NX2. If the results are identical, or very close, then WB with overlay is a waste of time. If however they are different, it would provide another venue for a different way of looking at a photo.
Maybe I'm chasing a rabbit into a hole.
Larry