Need help with printers for B/W

I currently have an Epson 7600 with Matte ink from MIS and QTR to print B/W but overall am not happy with the results. My goal is to produce digitally B/W prints that rival silver gel selenium toned prints with phoenomenial tonal range and and deep blacks. Options I have are to (which all options are on the table)

1) Buy another printer (Epsons, HP , Canon (doesnt matter))
2) Load up the 7600 with B/W specific inks from MIS and use QTR and the Roark curves (about a $700 option)

My question to the group is if anybody has had decent luck making great B/W prints? How have they done it? Can I see the samples. And if you have some of the newer printers can I possibly test it out for making B/W from QTR etc?

Thanks.

RichieV

Richie,

It may be the ink and system you're using. I've had good success with my Epson 4000 (purchased from Don George) and converted to Cone K-7 Piezography inks and using QTR. Here's a link to their site: http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.I/id.119/.f. When I get back from my trip to Dinosaur and Browns Park this week, I could send you a couple of samples.

Rod

Rich
I have a 7600 and use Epson photo black instead of matte and now print almost exclusively on Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk for both color and B&W. I am very happy with the results for B&W with this paper. I have also used Crane Silver Rag. Both of these papers give very rich blacks with the photo black ink. If you really are needing to use a matte paper with matte ink, I would look at the new Epson 7900, not cheap but more state of the art( see Michael Reichmans review on the luminous landscape site). I hopefully will be purchasing one before the year is out.
Steve

Likewise, I think you need to move to something that takes a photo black ink to get the rich black that you want. About six months ago I switched to printing on semi-gloss/luster papers and I find that I can get deeper tones and that they retain the separation between tones better. But I don't print in B&W enough to consider myself an expert there. I've printed in Advance B&W mode on my Epson 3800 on Ilford GFS and was happy with the neutrality and depth of the blacks. I also like the that the surface is almost matte. There are specific ICC profiles for ABW mode, but I did not use them on this occasion.

I think the 7600 could still serve you well with a B&W inkset, but I think you'll be happier with the newer baryta papers. These papers hold the dark tones extremely well. If you would like, I think I have part of an Atlex B&W sampler pack left and I'd be happy to mail that up to you. I just printed one sheet of each paper, it came with two for each paper.

If I were in your shoes, I'd strongly consider the Cone Selenium ink set for your 7600 ...

http://www.piezography.com/What_is_Piezograpy_site.html

Looks like they even print in-house too, so you could get samples.

I too have made my share of b/w prints with Epson's ABW mode. With photo black and the latest fiber papers, the results are very pleasing. Extremely good, really, considering it's an out-of-the-box solution. (Although the best b/w prints I made, by far, were with the ImagePrint rip. I just didn't make enough b/w to justify keeping that rip.) But it seems that b/w photographers generally aren't satisfied with b/w from a color set. You might chat with Michael Gordon about his experiences. I think I remember reading that he made a switch to a specialized ink set for his b/w work.

Thanks for all of your advice. I really need to see some samples of the Con inks to make a final decision. I currently have two printers at home. The epson 9600 with glossy epson inks and the 7600 with matte inks. The 7600 isnt getting much use and has very low mileage. I was thinking of either selling both printers and putting the proceeds towards a Epson 9900 (gulp - if i can find a brinks truck to rob) or converting the 7600 over to a full time B/W printer. Can anyone comment on print quality of Cone solution vs new Epsons?

Rod - You up for a visitor sometime soon to check out the prints and do some shootin?
Stephen and Mel - Can i see some samples sometime? You guys heading towards Denver anytime soon?

Jesse - If you have an email address for MG can you forward it to me in an email.

Thanks all,

RichieV

I sent you an email Rich.

Mel-

I've had great results with Cone's Selenium K7 with QTR, too... IMHO nothing produces better digital BW prints than Piezography. Highly recommended.

The ABW setup on Epson's newer printers can be nice, too, and is a little easier, but its metamerism reduction doesn't come close to an all-black inkset.

The screening algorithms in QTR are also excellent.

I have samples if you'd like to see them.

Richie,

I'm headed to Dinosaur and Browns Park tomorrow but I'm in town from the 18th till the 29th if you want to mosey on up this way. We could probably find some places to make photographs too.

Rod

Nat,
Would love to see the samples. Do you have a printer configured with the K7 inkset? And in your opinion you would say that those B/W prints overall are superior to the newer epsons?

Rod - Can i send you a couple files to print for me?

RichieV

Richie, I set up a 2400 with the K7s at the time I was considering doing the 7600. Even with the older print head technology the 2400/K7 put out better BW than what I can now get with my 9800. Keep in mind that the ABW on Epsons - though they can look great - still use all the colored inks. Cone's site explains it well. I'm totally sold on pure carbon pigments--black and gray shades only--for BW.

Nat & all thanks for the input. I was actually thinking of selling my low mileage 7600 but this really settles it. Just need to see and make some tests and make the investment.

Later we'll talk about paper.

RichieV